Elf Assassin II, Tempest I,

[dbspaceoditty]

this is one of my first builds in the creator and the first toon i want too get too lvl 20. i want too focus on scimitars because they are cheaper then khopesh. but then again i could switch too human and maybe go kensai and drop trap monkey...although i love being a trap monkey. also im not sure if the stats are good.

just wondering what you guys think

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Davethomas Wendys Guy
Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Male
(2 Fighter \ 12 Rogue \ 6 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 200
Spell Points: 10 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 16
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    17
Dexterity            14                    16
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         15                    16
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    25
Bluff                -1                     3
Concentration         2                     2
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device        6                    31
Haggle                3                    19
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  6                    30
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  2                     4
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         6                    30
Open Lock             6                    28
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     3
Search                6                    26
Spot                  3                    22
Swim                  2                     3
Tumble                6                     8
Use Magic Device      3                    22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I


Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: INT
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Attack I


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I


Level 11 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Monstrous Humanoid


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 13 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device III


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 19 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Whirlwind Attack
Enhancement: Rogue Balance I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

[unbongwah]

If you're boosting your INT for the bonus to Assassinate DC, I'll point out it's also based on your # of rogue lvls, which means it'll be gimped for you anyway. And if you're going Assassin for the other bonuses, then INT is irrelevant (beyond what you need for skill points, of course). Off-hand I'd guess INT 12 or 14 is ample.

Nimble Fingers, OTWF (w/out Tempest III), WF Slash, Power Crit, and Whirlwind Attack are all considered weak feats. Also, without a monk splash, I'm not sure you'd be able to hit high enough AC w/CE at late game to make it worthwhile. I don't see Toughness or Improved Crit; you should take those ASAP IMHO.

Consider rogue 13 / fighter 1 (if you don't have monk) instead: gets you another rogue bonus feat and extra d6 sneak attack. There are a number of similar builds on the rogue forums, like Krythen.

[dbspaceoditty]

well you cant get too many traps with 12 int. i know that because i couldnt even get heytons crypt on elite with 12 int so anything less then that isnt that good.

also, wouldnt any muliti class not have the benefits of third prestige? i really want this guy to be a trap monkey but still be decent at combat.

and i dont see how OTWF isnt worth it since wielding two large weapons compared too a small weapon...well...i dont see how thats a bad thing. i dont know many TWF builds that dont use it at.

although i might be able too loose nimble fingers for toughness or racial toughness.

and is 200HP horrible at lvl 20? and how is 17bab?

[Aerendil]

well you cant get too many traps with 12 int. i know that because i couldnt even get heytons crypt on elite with 12 int so anything less then that isnt that good.

also, wouldnt any muliti class not have the benefits of third prestige? i really want this guy to be a trap monkey but still be decent at combat.

and i dont see how OTWF isnt worth it since wielding two large weapons compared too a small weapon...well...i dont see how thats a bad thing. i dont know many TWF builds that dont use it at.

although i might be able too loose nimble fingers for toughness or racial toughness.

and is 200HP horrible at lvl 20? and how is 17bab?

Couple of quick comments:
- INT certainly helps with finding traps, but you're going to find that equipment and buffs more than make up for the rest. At end-game, you're only looking at having a 21 or so Disable Device skill. However, it's all the other things you add that boost it through the roof (such as +15 DD item, greater heroism (+4), rogue skill boost (+5), int modifier (+X, it varies), shroud items, and so on).
If you were having problems in Korthos with traps, either come back in a few levels, or get some buffs / equipment to boost your search / DD skills. You should be able to find some +3 items at that level.

- if you want to be an all-out trap-monkey, then consider Mechanic. Especially with Trapsmithing now, it's viable.

- definitely ditch nimble fingers for toughness. Every character should have toughness.

- it was mentioned above that the Assassinate DC will be gimped. Well, it will, but keep in mind it's 10 + rogue lvls + INT mod.
So even with /12 Rogue, you're still looking at a 22+INT mod DC. With, say, a 20 INT (+5 modifer), that's 27 DC.
Sure, you won't be Assassinating stuff in endgame quests, but that might be enough for things such as Vale.

- if going mostly scimitar or longsword-based, consider putting all level-ups into STR instead of splitting them up.

- re-evaluate the rest of your feats as well. Without a monk splash, CE might be useless as you won't get a good enough AC for it to matter. Whirlwind Attack is generally regarded as junk as well. As is Power Critical.

*edit* - woops, assassinate DC was off by 2. Fixed.

[dbspaceoditty]

hmmmm, those are good points. i think i might switch nimble fingers, CE and whirlwind for toughness. improved crit and maybe something else. who knows

would 18 assassin 2 fighter with the 2 fighter feats TWF and OTWF? taking elf scimitars

[Aerendil]

hmmmm, those are good points. i think i might switch nimble fingers, CE and whirlwind for toughness. improved crit and maybe something else. who knows

would 18 assassin 2 fighter with the 2 fighter feats TWF and OTWF? taking elf scimitars

Yep, that works fine too. Fighter 1, Monk 1 also works if you have Monk unlocked. (Monk 1 gives a free feat too).
You give up the extra Ranger feats, and would be far worse with a bow (and not have any spells), but you'd be a much better Rogue. So it depends what you want, really.

Feats I'd suggest would be: TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Improved Critical, Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Toughness - maybe OTWF and another one of your choice.

[dbspaceoditty]

sounds intresting. would going human khopesh and using 13/6/ rogue fighter could work? maybe 1 monk if i unlock it last lvl.

would investing into criticals and sneaks and flanking and all of those kensai/assassin abilitys stack? so i could be a crit dealing sneaking flanking son ***** of bladed fury