Holy Sword No Longer Powers Energy Cells

[supp3nhuhn]

...To me it seemed more of a bug that they didn't consider serious enough to fix and therefor harmless.

When some mechanic seems like a bug to you and instead of reporting it you use it to gain some sort of advantage then you exploit said mechanic. Whether it is something serious or not doesn't matter really.
They seem to have fixed a lot of exploits with this update, for instance you can't kill your brand new veteran character to get to snowy side korthos anymore as well.

[Montrose]

Create gold and other precious metals in PnP. how long does it remain in existance?

Can you use said material to create magical objects? Answer: No.

By PnP answers, your "charaged" weapon, only has the power of a cherry bomb, not a 1 lb brick of plastic. Explain to me how you honestly expect to charge a cell when you have no where near a strong enough power source.

Are you saying that a tangible manifestabion of the force of your god's will is not a strong power source?

Any paladin that said something like that in one of my campaigns would be getting a backhand pimp slap from their deity real quick-like.

[Thelmallen]

When some mechanic seems like a bug to you and instead of reporting it you use it to gain some sort of advantage then you exploit said mechanic. Whether it is something serious or not doesn't matter really.
They seem to have fixed a lot of exploits with this update, for instance you can't kill your brand new veteran character to get to snowy side korthos anymore as well.

In the interests of full disclosure, I never once powered a cell with a holy sword as I retired my pure paladin shortly after the Shroud came live.

Is the onus on us as players to moderate our gameplay by anticipating what it is the developers consider WAI or a bug/exploit or is the onus on the developers to let us know what is and is not WAI? I think it's a mixture of the two. However, if something is going on for well over 2 years, you would expect that if the developers considered it an exploit or a bug to not be exploited, however you want to say it, they would have let us know long ago.

That being said, this doesn't affect me in the slightest as I can't remember the last time I ran a Shroud and as I stated, I never used this 'exploit' to power cells in the first place. My issue is simply with the people piling on by calling out the paladins who did power cells exploiters when they are not.

[Missing_Minds]

Are you saying that a tangible manifestabion of the force of your god's will is not a strong power source?

Any paladin that said something like that in one of my campaigns would be getting a backhand pimp slap from their deity real quick-like.

Correct. I would not allow for "Holy Sword", to be used to power a cell.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holySword.htm

The duration is 1 round per level. That is in no way powerful enough to charge a cell.

The weapon is not a relic of said deity and not a lasting focal point of said deity. It is a "Oh.. a faithful wants a toy to use to smite my enemies. Ok, I'll let him play with something for a time."

If you want to house rule it that way, by all means go ahead. But I'd also expect to be able to use transmutation spells to create infinite lasting gold by your logic.

[justagame]

Oh heck, I've been the biggest pally complainer around lately, and as much as it was really cool and helpful -- let's be truthful, the free recharges "felt" a little like cheating, or close to it. It was nice while it lasted, but it didn't feel like it was intended. Just like Wizards got to use heal scrolls for a while.

[Montrose]

Correct. I would not allow for "Holy Sword", to be used to power a cell.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holySword.htm

The duration is 1 round per level. That is in no way powerful enough to charge a cell.

The weapon is not a relic of said deity and not a lasting focal point of said deity. It is a "Oh.. a faithful wants a toy to use to smite my enemies. Ok, I'll let him play with something for a time."

If you want to house rule it that way, by all means go ahead. But I'd also expect to be able to use transmutation spells to create infinite lasting gold by your logic.

I would absolutely allow a paladin to charge using holy sword. The question is whether or not his deity thinks that's the right thing to do.

Bob the Paladin: I call upon the holy power of Foo to imbue this sword with magic so that I may... Umm... use it at this very evil altar... To... you know... charge this power cell so I can... err... make a better weapon that doesn't involve my god.

Foo the god: So, Bob. About that...

[Missing_Minds]

Foo the god: So, Bob. About that...

*snicker* +1 for the phrasing making me laugh. It reminded me back to the college days of playing when one of my friends decided to follow a generic deity who's animal was a goat. He made a war hammer with the head of a goat embossed (is that the right term?) such that any one he wacked with it would be marked by the goat, or "blessed" as he called it.

[LordPiglet]

i Would Absolutely Allow A Paladin To Charge Using Holy Sword. The Question Is Whether Or Not His Deity Thinks That's The Right Thing To Do.

Bob The Paladin: I Call Upon The Holy Power Of Foo To Imbue This Sword With Magic So That I May... Umm... Use It At This Very Evil Altar... To... You Know... Charge This Power Cell So I Can... Err... Make A Better Weapon That Doesn't Involve My God.

Foo The God: So, Bob. About That...

+1

[Arness]

Turbine has been known not to always mention things that shouldn't be happening changing in patch notes. One would assume because the things shouldn't be happening, we won't notice it. It's not a stealth nerf, or anything like that. It's just taking care of an unintended happenstance.

[Seelowe]

Correct. I would not allow for "Holy Sword", to be used to power a cell.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holySword.htm
The duration is 1 round per level. That is in no way powerful enough to charge a cell.

the duration has nothing to do with "powerful". it defines duration and just that. note, that according to your link no twf paladin should be able to use more than 1 holy sword at a time. maybe also a MAJOR exploit that needs to be fixed without being in the bug section?

the weapon acts as a +5 holy sword with a mcae bonus. (ours also have the burst effects and transmuting qualities added, which increase their "power"). does it say it acts like that, apart from when you want to hit a stone with it, poke the thief in your party in the eye or while using it with magical rituals? no.

look at any +5 (anything) burst weapon. it is never less than +8. at the time the spell is active the sword is definitely "powerful" enough.

The weapon is not a relic of said deity and not a lasting focal point of said deity. It is a "Oh.. a faithful wants a toy to use to smite my enemies. Ok, I'll let him play with something for a time."

If you want to house rule it that way, by all means go ahead. But I'd also expect to be able to use transmutation spells to create infinite lasting gold by your logic.

A. no, not infinte lasting ones. that would not be by the rules.

B. yes, of course they are allowed to use them as specified by the rules. you mean you did NOT allow players to use transmutation spells to create valuable metals, then make a side story out of just what happened when they tried to use them in silvermoon's temple or what happened when the local armory found out their latest funds turned out to be copper instead of gold X hours after your party passed through, what happened to their renown after the locals of a small town found the donation they received to be stones etc etc?

there is a reason they don't have THOSE transmutation spells available to casters in ddo

and finally, bob the paladin would definitely have to justify his cause. I do not see why God foo would be upset at "I quested for months, smiting evil everywhere to pry remains of evil from our enemies to finally purify this necklace that allows me to fight even longer in Your name! there is no evil left in it in my hands!" or whatnot
paladin jack's approach of "dude, this khopesh is like 0.7% better dps than your thingie against no fortification mobs so lol @ u, I'm over you" would probably not trigger a favorable response.

of course this would raise the question if ANY paladin should be able to use greensteal weapons/items before they are purified... or any lawful good character... so yeah, maybe an obvious explot/bug, that should be fixed asap!

p.s. yeah, wall of text but monolectic answers in this thread about how obvious the answer is... kinda take the p$%&

[Montrose]

paladin jack's approach of "dude, this khopesh is like 0.7% better dps than your thingie against no fortification mobs so lol @ u, I'm over you" would probably not trigger a favorable response.

Now I have this mental image of a paladin breaking up with their god via text message

"not wrking out. wnt to see othr ppl. lol, kk byethx."

[Missing_Minds]

look at any +5 (anything) burst weapon. it is never less than +8. at the time the spell is active the sword is definitely "powerful" enough.

Maybe for a split second. There are two AA batteries. One is "dead" the other is "fresh".

They will both read at 1.5 V. However, the "dead" one under load fails in seconds, maximum. The "fresh" keeps going.

But according to you, they are equal. This is why that premise does NOT work.

Now, let's break reality with the concept of "magic" aka 'anything goes'. If you want to house rule that the spell does work that way, more power to you. That is *your* game. This is DDO, Turbines game, their rules. In their world, which you are playing, the spell is not powerful enough. Gods are finicky that way.

Well... only in as so far as Ebberon has deities.

of course this would raise the question if ANY paladin should be able to use greensteal weapons/items before they are purified... or any lawful good character... so yeah, maybe an obvious explot/bug, that should be fixed asap!

That would be dependent upon the doctrine of the diety. If they have doctrines such that "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" Then by all means that character should be able to use it. If they have such it is similar to the three monkeys... then no, they probably shouldn't be allowed. This this only applies to the religious.

Any one else... lets say a fighter. They pick up an evil/tainted but NOT intelligent/influencing weapon. But they use it to do good. Is the fighter now "evil" for using an evil weapon to do good, or is the fighter cleansing (ala changing its history) to do good? The weapon is just that, a weapon, a tool. Its use is soly dependent upon the wielder. Unlike in the case of an intelligent/influencing weapon, then all bets are off.

[Gkar]

1) It was never labled as a bug, or cited as a known issue.
2) Nobody was complaining when it worked..

Turbine never tells you something is an exploit publically. But it clearly was.

[Gkar]

to the righteous ones:

show me a link, where this was identified by a developer as a bug.

They changed it, that's your proof. At the very least they thought it "cheese" which is subject to change at any time, and once again my proof is they did change it.

If you go back to the very first statements about GS crafting you will find that it was in part designed to let us use "useless" vendor trash equipment. The holy sword does not fit that

[Junts]

Lets just boil this down:

It used to work. It doesn't now.

Every paladin who played did it. They can't now. It was handy. It wasn't that big a deal. It even had inconveniences (Holding all the holy swords+your loot sucked, crunching striaght from inv is way easier).

No one who did it was an evil cheater. Its not a big deal. Our handy saver of plat is gone. We live. We move on.

/thread

[Seelowe]

to the idea "this is nothing important"...
absolutely as I said in my very first post in this thread this is nothing I would gather signatures for
this seems like one more rupee sink introduced to the game like several have been lately, which for most mmos is a VERY good thing to do. but that is what I take it for, not a "bug" they fixed but something they changed in the economy's favor.

I simply challenged the "of course it was a bug/exploit" position of some posters bc it simply was/is not that "obvious" dnd-wise.

just like if tomorrow all casters are not allowed to cast while in mid-jump anymore. it bypasses the "slowing you down while you cast" effect which obviously is how turbine intended it to work if you cast while not standing still. everyone does it. if they took that away, maybe it would not be THAT obvious that it was always an exploit etc. to some others. not to mention this would have nothing going for it dnd-wise. heck, you should roll a spell failure check, if anything if you did not have an appropriate feat.^^