advice wanted for 2 last levels

[Grecan]

Hi all

I have an Elven Tempest III Ranger, level 18 (28 pts)

my stats are:
STR: 16 +4 level-ups +6 item = 26
DEX: 16 +4 enhancements +6 item = 26
CON: 14 +6 item = 20
INT: 9 +1 tome = 10
WIS: 9 +1 tome +6 item = 16
CHA: 8 (+6 item when selling stuff )

my feats are:
Dodge, Mobility, SA
IC: piercing (i have the rapier/longsword enhancements)
Power Attack
Toughness
OTWF

I haven't decided yet how to continue:

1. stay pure 20 Ranger
2. splash 2 Fighter levels
3. splash 2 Barbarian levels
(Monk is not available to me)

1: another FE (i have Undead, Giants, Evil Outsiders, Elementals, could add Constructs i guess), more damage against FE, ranged alacrity (i use bows often), more spell points and spells

2: more hp (plus fighter toughness I), +1 STR (+2 with a +1 tome i have), haste boost, AC boost (but my AC is pretty low), attack boost, 2 more feats, less skill points and class skills, no more spell points and spells.

3: even more hp (plus barbarian toughness I), +1 CON (+2 with a +1 tome i have), fast movement, damage boost, DR boost, PA enhancement, Uncanny Dodge, less skill points and class skills, no more spell points and spells

I'd like to hear your opinions and reasoning. If you need more info about my ranger, let me know.

If you support option 2, i'd like you to suggest which feats i should take. I'm thinking about IC: ranged, IC: slashing, Weapon Focus (piercing probably). Is Quick Draw working for swaping weapon sets? Is Resilience any good? Would Stunning Blow work if i also got the Stunning Blow I enhancement if i splash Fighter?

If i splashed Barbarian, would the Barbarian rage enhancements work with rage clickies/pots as well?

Your advice will be appreciated

[Grecan]

So, is there no-one who can help me decide or answer some of my questions here?

[Daggaz]

I cant remember barbarians getting bonus feats, they just get the static class feats at various levels which you do not get to choose between, so unless DDO changed things, you dont get an extra feat to pick from by taking barb. The DR is only DR 1/- unless you take the enhancement, in which case you get an additional clicky of DR6/- for 30 seconds, but that is very limited considering it is first tier. If anything, the reason for taking barb is extra hps, RAGE (although also very limited), and the 10% speed bonus. I think the latter tho is rather meh at high levels where you can have 30% striders anyhow and dont need much more.

Fighter gives you the two extra bonus feats, costing a fifth favored enemy (which is pretty meh to be honest, by now you should have all the bases covered) so that is something. A few more hps, the haste clicky is a waste of time as it slows you down so much clicking it that its more like 15 seconds of haste, then wait a while... Honestly do not use that as a reason for dipping fighter. So here its the two feats.

Ranger gives you the capstone, and you mention that you like ranged combat. Forum threads often talk about how ranged sucks, but hey if its the way you have fun... So really it comes down to whether or not you think it is worth giving up the capstone for a)2 feats + hps or b)limited rage, slightly faster running and +hps. Keep in mind u5 changes will be affecting alacracity bonuses, far as I remember.

[redraider]

2 fighter for sure. 2 Extra feats. +1 Str. Extra HPs (4 I think?). No brainer as the Ranger Capstone blows unless you are ranged spec'd.

[Dawnsfire]

Hi all

I have an Elven Tempest III Ranger, level 18

my stats are:
STR: 16 +4 level-ups +6 item = 26
DEX: 16 +4 enhancements +6 item = 26
CON: 14 +6 item = 20
INT: 9 +1 tome = 10
WIS: 9 +1 tome +6 item = 16
CHA: 8 (+6 item when selling stuff )

my feats are:
Dodge, Mobility, SA
IC: piercing (i have the rapier/longsword enhancements)
Power Attack
Toughness
OTWF

I haven't decided yet how to continue:

1. go pure 20 Ranger
2. splash 2 Fighter levels
3. splash 2 Barbarian levels
(Monk is not available to me)

1: another FE (i have Undead, Giants, Evil Outsiders, Elementals, could add Constructs i guess), more damage against FE, ranged alacrity (i use bows often), more spell points and spells

2: more hp (plus fighter toughness I), +1 STR (+2 with a +1 tome i have), haste boost, AC boost (but my AC is pretty low), attack boost, 2 more feats, less skill points and class skills, no more spell points and spells.

3: even more hp (plus barbarian toughness I), +1 CON (+2 with a +1 tome i have), fast movement, damage boost, DR boost, PA enhancement, Uncanny Dodge, 1 more feat, less skill points and class skills, no more spell points and spells

I'd like to hear your opinions and reasoning. If you need more info about my ranger, let me know.

If you support options 2 or 3, i'd like you to suggest which feats i should take. I'm thinking about IC: ranged, IC: slashing, Weapon Focus (piercing probably). Is Quick Draw working for swaping weapon sets? Is Resilience any good? Would Stunning Blow work if i also got the Stunning Blow I enhancement if i splash Fighter?

If i splashed Barbarian, would the Barbarian rage enhancements work with rage clickies/pots as well?

Your advice will be appreciated

I didn't have monk when I started mine so I threw in 2 fighter levels for the feats. IC: Ranged rocks for manyshot. The last I'm not sure of because my last that you do not have is extend. Either Quickdraw for speeding up the haste boost or another toughness.

20 ranger seems a given only if you are and Arcane Archer. The last FE is nice but 2 feats are better I think.

I don't think the short barb rages would be worth it imho.

Barbarian rage does stack with clickies/potions/spells.

[pSINNa]

You seem to have had a relatively clear idea of what you wanted in this build, i realize it's an very tough choice to make the end here, but i really don't want to influence you too much on this one.

I have a pure lvl 20 str based human ranger with finished unbuffed str 32, dex 27 con 26 wis 20 (int and char, pfft, who cares, lol), and yes he's a 28 pointer (well overdue for his TR, soon, soon i will part with his top end ease for a little while :P).

And yes, he's another khopesh using madman.

My build is not your build, they are very different.

All i would say is i think you need some more con.

It's a shame you don't have monk available really, i beleive in update 5 that monk splash has some added attraction in stackable melee bonus's of some type that may be usefull, whilst helping your AC problem a little, but, enough, i really do think having come this far, it really is up to you on this one.

There is no definable 'gimping' i can see in your build at this point, you've done just fine so far, trust yourself to finish strong, and enjoy the result, in the very worst case scenario we now have this greater re-incarnation option available if you're not completely happy with the end result, and you'll be able to say "I did it my way" at the end

(one of the most satisfying things about my ranger, it was my first character built before i really knew what was what, and managed to come to a very satisfying result in the end without resorting to cookie cutters and known 'win' buttons, just sheer love for my toon, and agony on every decision every step of the way)

[Grecan]

wow! it seems that those sad faces () work well! i'm considering using them more often!

I cant remember barbarians getting bonus feats, they just get the static class feats at various levels which you do not get to choose between, so unless DDO changed things, you dont get an extra feat to pick from by taking barb. The DR is only DR 1/- unless you take the enhancement, in which case you get an additional clicky of DR6/- for 30 seconds, but that is very limited considering it is first tier. If anything, the reason for taking barb is extra hps, RAGE (although also very limited), and the 10% speed bonus. I think the latter tho is rather meh at high levels where you can have 30% striders anyhow and dont need much more.

Fighter gives you the two extra bonus feats, costing a fifth favored enemy (which is pretty meh to be honest, by now you should have all the bases covered) so that is something. A few more hps, the haste clicky is a waste of time as it slows you down so much clicking it that its more like 15 seconds of haste, then wait a while... Honestly do not use that as a reason for dipping fighter. So here its the two feats.

Ranger gives you the capstone, and you mention that you like ranged combat. Forum threads often talk about how ranged sucks, but hey if its the way you have fun... So really it comes down to whether or not you think it is worth giving up the capstone for a)2 feats + hps or b)limited rage, slightly faster running and +hps. Keep in mind u5 changes will be affecting alacracity bonuses, far as I remember.

You are right about barbarians not getting bonus feats, i was a bit confused when i wrote that, i'll probably edit my post... That's a serious minus to my 3rd oprtion, thanks for pointing it out!

Regarding ranged combat, i do not understand all those complaints i've read, i don't know about other classes, but it's very useful in many cases and works fine for rangers imho, even for tempests like me.

2 fighter for sure. 2 Extra feats. +1 Str. Extra HPs (4 I think?). No brainer as the Ranger Capstone blows unless you are ranged spec'd.

Yeah, i'll probably go this way

I didn't have monk when I started mine so I threw in 2 fighter levels for the feats. IC: Ranged rocks for manyshot. The last I'm not sure of because my last that you do not have is extend. Either Quickdraw for speeding up the haste boost or another toughness.

20 ranger seems a given only if you are and Arcane Archer. The last FE is nice but 2 feats are better I think.

I don't think the short barb rages would be worth it imho.

Barbarian rage does stack with clickies/potions/spells.

Thank you, too, for your feedback

It's a shame imo, but toughness is not a fighter bonus feat That doesn't make much sense, except that it was this way in PnP, afaik.

So, are you saying that Quickdraw speeds up the use of clickies? What else does it do that's not included in it's description? Does it work for swaping weapon sets faster?

[Grecan]

You seem to have had a relatively clear idea of what you wanted in this build, i realize it's an very tough choice to make the end here, but i really don't want to influence you too much on this one.

...

There is no definable 'gimping' i can see in your build at this point, you've done just fine so far, trust yourself to finish strong, and enjoy the result, in the very worst case scenario we now have this greater re-incarnation option available if you're not completely happy with the end result, and you'll be able to say "I did it my way" at the end

(one of the most satisfying things about my ranger, it was my first character built before i really knew what was what, and managed to come to a very satisfying result in the end without resorting to cookie cutters and known 'win' buttons, just sheer love for my toon, and agony on every decision every step of the way)

The truth is my ranger used to be more gimped than he is now but i LRed him after some helpful advice i got in these forums and changed some feats, stats, and also made some other adjustments during the process.

I have a pure lvl 20 str based human ranger with finished unbuffed str 32, dex 27 con 26 wis 20 (int and char, pfft, who cares, lol), and yes he's a 28 pointer (well overdue for his TR, soon, soon i will part with his top end ease for a little while :P).

And yes, he's another khopesh using madman.

My build is not your build, they are very different.

All i would say is i think you need some more con.

It's a shame you don't have monk available really, i beleive in update 5 that monk splash has some added attraction in stackable melee bonus's of some type that may be usefull, whilst helping your AC problem a little, but, enough, i really do think having come this far, it really is up to you on this one.

Yeah, i'd like to have some more con, but there are other options for me to pump-up my hps besides splashing barbarian, like tomes or reaching the 150 Argonessen(sp?) favor for example... What tomes have you used?

As for being a shame to not have monk, i'd reply that maybe it's a shame that Turbine hasn't kept so satisfied the customer in me as to make me give more money to the game than i have up to this point

[pSINNa]

As regards con on old Coitfluff (my first and favourite melee toon) he is wearing the cinders ring from TOD (+1 exceptional con) with +2 exceptional con crafted on his other TOD ring (kilau's ring - tempest set bonus with the tempest necklace from amrath granting +3 stacking exceptional to hit and 1d4 extra slash damage on every swing).

In addition to those he's eaten a +2 con tome (hell, he's had +2's on every stat - i have ground my *ss off for that toon, lol - try the reavers refuge quests, they seem to drop more +2 tomes then any other area in the game in my experience)

As a human with access to the 'human adaptabiliy' line of enhancements, he's also had an extra +1 to con there as well to get to his 26 con, yielding (with his toughness feat and enhancements, his draconic vitality from the 150 argo favour, and his con6+greater false life belt - vorne's - from amrath) a total of 497hp completely unbuffed.

There's a lot of work there, but just knowing what's out there and how to 'tweek' that baby may give you some more direction.

To be honest, the real work BEGAN (lol) when that toon was capped.

In addition to all this, he has a green steel goggle (3 tier) with 2 x tiers of hit points on it, triple neg item, disease immunity, blindness immunity, on the first tier, hit points, and hit points (exceptional strength skills) on the 2 and 3rd tier.

This may seem a little like overkill to you at the moment, but really, he needs every single one of those hit points where he lives (In Amrath, somewhere, there is an obilisk that says 'Coitluff lives here' lol)

Hope this all helps, ranger - great class, great times.

Coit out~

(oops, late edit, forgot his cloak, it's a 'dust 2' cloak with first tier as hit points, 2nd and 3rd tier as exceptional fire resists - and all of that finally adds up to his 497hp, soz for the late addition - i tend to take all the gear he's wearing for granted these days, and kinda forget how much i fought for those hp during his last developement phase)

[Grecan]

As regards con on old Coitfluff (my first and favourite melee toon)

<snip>

Hope this all helps, ranger - great class, great times.

Coit out~
<snip>

Every bit of info i get helps me, ranger

I've been reading the forums, ddowiki, compendium, and other sources of info in order to improve my effectiveness and enjoyment, but i'm always looking forward to hearing other's personal experiences, opinions, and what not, either in the forums, or in-game. And i'm always eager to hear negative (but constructive) criticism, in order to get better.

Rangers are certainly a great class, i greatly enjoy running my tempest.

This may seem a little like overkill to you at the moment, but really, he needs every single one of those hit points where he lives (In Amrath, somewhere, there is an obilisk that says 'Coitluff lives here' lol)

What seems a little like overkill to me, is what i have to go through in order to get such goodies
You see, i just started running the Shroud... I haven't even began running ToD and some other raids yet.
But no, i'm not complaining, it's all good... I mean, if it's not hard to do something, where would the feeling of achievement for doing it go?

take care

(oh, and i'll try to find this obelisk, haven't been there much)

[Grecan]

I had decided to take 2 fighter levels, but then someone told me that a new ranger capstone will be introduced, which will be made for Tempests, in addition to the one that already exists...

Does anyone know any specifics about it?

Does anyone have any advice about what i should do?

[Victor_1]

I had decided to take 2 fighter levels, but then someone told me that a new ranger capstone will be introduced, which will be made for Tempests, in addition to the one that already exists...

Does anyone know any specifics about it?

Does anyone have any advice about what i should do?

If you wants to have future proof, surely 20 ranger is way to go.
But, as far as I can remember there are no new info for ranger capstone.

I think that "someone" was just dreaming about uber capstone for the tempest in the future
Besides, even if new tempest capstone added on tomorrow you can just go +3LR once you have enough TP

So I would say dont mind about future and go for 2 more fighter level.

[Grecan]

If you wants to have future proof, surely 20 ranger is way to go.
But, as far as I can remember there are no new info for ranger capstone.

I think that "someone" was just dreaming about uber capstone for the tempest in the future
Besides, even if new tempest capstone added on tomorrow you can just go +3LR once you have enough TP

So I would say dont mind about future and go for 2 more fighter level.

Thanks for your answer, what you say is definitely reasonable, but at the moment a +3LR is not an option for me personally, because:

1. I'm a premium player, who doesn't earn TPs each month
2. Those +3 Hearts of Wood are pretty expensive
3. I have decided not to give more money to Turbine until they stop letting me down (too many bugs post U5 and too many mistakes at how the new guild renown mechanism works)
4. Gaining enough TPs for a +3LR through favor will take me very long, cause i have very few at this point of time

So what do you think now...?

(of course, my disappointment stated in no.3 might soon go away, but i doubt it will before i level-up, cause i'm ready to hit level 19 and i need to make up my mind pretty soon)

[Victor_1]

I understand what you feel, but one thing you might want to consider is,
Do you really wants to have future proof which is totally unknown right now?

Judging from what they did to rogue capstone, I know you dont like loosing future potential.
But even though new rogue capstone is powerful, does it gimped multiclassing rogue? I think not.
Maybe character like 19rog/1ftr assassin may be less optimized comparing pure rogue assassin, but that's about it.
(In my opinion at least)

Sure, tempest capstone may be powerful.
But we do not know when it come, we dont even know what it would do. It can be pretty much pointless.
I am person who dont care much about things unknown right now, so I'd take fighter levels if I were you.
Haste boost, STR enhancement, 10 more HP, and 2 more feats are good enough benefits for giving up 2 ranger level.

Just my 2 cent

[Psyker]

There is a fourth option you can consider, 1 Fighter and 1 Barbarian. With this you will get one Feat, Fighter haste boost (which is a huge bonus, there is a delay right after you use it but if you time it right the delay wont hurt), barbarian run speed and barbarian sprint boost. This is what I would go for because I use haste boosts a lot and love run speed, however 2 fighter is a strong choice because you still get the haste boost and the extra feat might be worth the run speed and sprint boost, but in the end that extra feat usually equals one more toughness and I think 10% run speed plus sprint boost is greater than 20hps, but to each their own.

For Feats with your fighter you mentioned taking improved critical slashing, if you don't already have that you should take it. If you want to take a toughness feat with fighter you can go to fred and swap one of the feats you currently have for toughness, then when you level up with fighter retake the feat you had just swapped out, fairly expensive at level 18 but if it gets you what you want its worth it.

[Grecan]

I understand what you feel, but one thing you might want to consider is,
Do you really wants to have future proof which is totally unknown right now?

Judging from what they did to rogue capstone, I know you dont like loosing future potential.
But even though new rogue capstone is powerful, does it gimped multiclassing rogue? I think not.
Maybe character like 19rog/1ftr assassin may be less optimized comparing pure rogue assassin, but that's about it.
(In my opinion at least)

Sure, tempest capstone may be powerful.
But we do not know when it come, we dont even know what it would do. It can be pretty much pointless.
I am person who dont care much about things unknown right now, so I'd take fighter levels if I were you.
Haste boost, STR enhancement, 10 more HP, and 2 more feats are good enough benefits for giving up 2 ranger level.

Just my 2 cent

Arigato gozaima****a

Wow, why do you guys use such bad words to say thank you?

I like the way you think

(ps: Neither english nor japanese is my primary language, so excuse and correct me if i made any mistakes )

[Dawnsfire]

So, are you saying that Quickdraw speeds up the use of clickies? What else does it do that's not included in it's description? Does it work for swaping weapon sets faster?

The consensus is that it does. For weapon sets the it halves the cooldown and for action boosts the pause goes from about 3 seconds to 1. I don't have the feat myself I am just going by the forum posts I have read. This is the forum post I have saved under my Quick Draw bookmark. Best of luck to you!

[Grecan]

There is a fourth option you can consider, 1 Fighter and 1 Barbarian. With this you will get one Feat, Fighter haste boost (which is a huge bonus, there is a delay right after you use it but if you time it right the delay wont hurt), barbarian run speed and barbarian sprint boost. This is what I would go for because I use haste boosts a lot and love run speed, however 2 fighter is a strong choice because you still get the haste boost and the extra feat might be worth the run speed and sprint boost, but in the end that extra feat usually equals one more toughness and I think 10% run speed plus sprint boost is greater than 20hps, but to each their own.

For Feats with your fighter you mentioned taking improved critical slashing, if you don't already have that you should take it. If you want to take a toughness feat with fighter you can go to fred and swap one of the feats you currently have for toughness, then when you level up with fighter retake the feat you had just swapped out, fairly expensive at level 18 but if it gets you what you want its worth it.

Yes, i like running quickly, so i'd like the barbarian +10% run speed. But i already have the ranger sprint boost I... If i also took the barbarian sprint boost I, would i have 10 (5+5) uses of sprint boost then?

Regarding the haste boost delay, another one suggested taking Quickdraw to make it work better:

I didn't have monk when I started mine so I threw in 2 fighter levels for the feats. IC: Ranged rocks for manyshot. The last I'm not sure of because my last that you do not have is extend. Either Quickdraw for speeding up the haste boost or another toughness.

What do you think about taking this feat? Does it also have other uses which are not described?
But maybe taking IC: ranged and/or IC: slashing would be better...

Regarding the feat swapping, i was supposed to deserve a free one from completing that quest, but when i LRed and swapped some feats (among other changes i made) my free feat swap was gone... I have reported this as a bug, but haven't been given any answer about it, and i'll try not to swap any feats if they don't give me back the free swap i deserve! ><

Thank you for your idea but if i don't stay pure, i think i'll prefer 2 fighter levels

[Grecan]

The consensus is that it does. For weapon sets the it halves the cooldown and for action boosts the pause goes from about 3 seconds to 1. I don't have the feat myself I am just going by the forum posts I have read. This is the forum post I have saved under my Quick Draw bookmark. Best of luck to you!

Oh, i see.... i'll check that link
I made the previous post before i saw your answer

thank you!