VoD: Hate or Intimi

[Ikem]

Just wondering what people prefer.

[cdemeritt]

Intim can work... as an intimitank, it is doable... however, depending on the tank, it can actually slow the raid down, and is not my preferred method... Hate tanking can make VoD go much faster... Especially if it is a WF hate tank.. (reconstruct isn't affected by curse, make for a faster easier run.. )

But a intim works well in a pinch.

[BurningDownTheHouse]

Most people prefer a wf hate tank for Sulo for obvious reasons.
Intimitanks are still good for orthons though, makes the run more orderly (but you don't really need a dedicated intimitank for those, any old high ac build with intim thrown in will do).

[Quijonsith]

A GOOD hate tank will speed things up, but I've grouped with alot of so called 'hate tanks' and the rest of the raid had to hold back our DPS and let them build aggro. We had to take off lightning strike, turn off power attack, and avoid smiting until the very end. An intimitank with enough intimidate on the other hand would have aggro and not lose it and the rest of the raid gets to beat at full power the entire time. 9 people hitting all the time is more damage than one person hitting alot of the time while the rest wait for aggro to be established.

If you're the one looking for a tank, most PuGs take what they can get. If you're looking to make a tank figure out which suits your playstyle the best and go for it.

Personally I prefer a good AC tank that needs less healing over a high HP low AC hate tank that makes our healers/arcanes burn through resources to keep them alive. Now if it's a DoS hate tank with AC that's a different matter, but usually when someone says hate tank it winds up being a no AC barbarian in my experience.

My last VoD the leader took a WF barbarian as tank over the human AC/intimitank solely because the barb was a WF (when your AC is high enough and you have DR and shield block you don't get cursed even on a fleshy). The barb didn't have silver/metallin of pure good or anything even close so we spent most of the raid watching and waiting. The barb said 'atleast I'm doing damage while I'm up here'. We as a raid would have done better to have the intimitank do so while everyone else, barb included, could damage the whole time.

This all of course is a matter of getting a good tank period, whether hate or intimitank.

[Clay]

Depends on what is there at the time. Rather than wait for an intim... just take highest DPS guy and tank him. If there is an intim available... it is my first choice, provided the intim is no fail and the ac is reasonably high. If the Intim is not no fail, it is better to hate tank him.

Higher difficulty settings like Elite, a good intim makes it all easy.

[Bloodhaven]

I prefer a 74+ AC <normal> 78+ AC <hard> 84+ AC < elite> Fleshie who is holding agro with DPS. 2-3 curses the whole run and easy to heal ..

I counted one run and it was 6 heals for the tank and no curses.... 6!! the whole run.

Also to make things run even smoother have the tank use a bow to pull sully when he ports away.

[Lewcipher]

Depends on what is there at the time. Rather than wait for an intim... just take highest DPS guy and tank him. If there is an intim available... it is my first choice, provided the intim is no fail and the ac is reasonably high. If the Intim is not no fail, it is better to hate tank him.

Higher difficulty settings like Elite, a good intim makes it all easy.

What about a WF bard with 68 intim? And a max DR of 45?

[FluffyCalico]

Just wondering what people prefer.

WF barb on the boss and intimitank on the orthons.

[Sanadil]

Personal preference, AC Intim Tank. The person needs to know what they are doing though....Suulo...wait 1 second after timer up...Horoth... 1/2 second after timer up.. etc etc.. Just spamming intim never works as eventually, they will ignore it.

Hate tanks... Yeah, never have liked them. Typically (not always) resource usage does go up, alot.

[Zombiekenny]

Whatever is available first?

[MrWizard]

On my favored soul I have had to always endure healing a 'hate tank' in almost all raids.
The extreme use of resources and extra chaos is a bit much.
The extra time it takes to kill the boss is a bummer when weighed against the resources.

Only once or twice have I had to heal a real good hate tank, the rest just have a bouncing health bar.

I stopped playing my favored soul for this reason, tired of the cost of keeping them up. I never got to heal a intim tank, always stuck with hate tanks.



On my intim-tank, from norm to elite in VoD I can intim and hold 99% of the time (unless someone is screwing around with deception (fixed this update) or a ranger on the other side of the room.)

On my intim tank, I fight a bit, but find it is better to hold him so everyone can go full bore. I can self heal from norm to elite and need no healing at all.


Let me repeat that so it is very clear. My intim tank does not need a healer for any reason at any difficulty of VoD when he is tanking.



I have also done the orthons (2nd wave) AND sully at the same time to help group.

In ToD I have been in near wipes when the hate tank fails and my intim tank has had a group or orthons, horoth, and sully at the same time at the portal while everyone raises and regroups. While self healing.


Having played both a healer and an intim tank, in my personal opinion, you are crazy to not use a 'good' intim tank.

Hate tanking we always wait around for the aggro. We have to wait for the re-aggro. We have to watch the healers burn through scrolls and mana like crazy.


Why in the world would you not use an intim tank (unless the tank is garbage)?


Not having to wait for a tank to get aggro or reacquire it allows TREMENDOUS damage, way more than any one character could ever do in the same time.



My vote is intim tank. I would rather have that massive DPS hate tank beating on the boss the entire time along with the party, at no resource cost to the clerics.




On part 4 shroud I always hear, 'which cleric is taking round 1' and so on. On my intim tank I hit one side and intim while fighting. Very little damage should go to anyone except for a little AoE and when the blades come in. Anyone taking damage is standing between me and the prey, its their fault for that.
Part 5 can be that way too, without deception or ranging, without fail.


Hound, any difficulty, using intim to keep Xzzy on me instead of the little hounds makes it super easy to heal through...even elite.


as a healer, why would you not want a character specifically built to hold all aggro, high healing amp, high ac, high damage mitigation doing the tanking. IT IS WHAT AN AC TANK w/INTIM IS BUILT FOR.

[Quikster]

On my favored soul I have had to always endure healing a 'hate tank' in almost all raids.
The extreme use of resources and extra chaos is a bit much.
The extra time it takes to kill the boss is a bummer when weighed against the resources.

Only once or twice have I had to heal a real good hate tank, the rest just have a bouncing health bar.

I stopped playing my favored soul for this reason, tired of the cost of keeping them up. I never got to heal a intim tank, always stuck with hate tanks.



On my intim-tank, from norm to elite in VoD I can intim and hold 99% of the time (unless someone is screwing around with deception (fixed this update) or a ranger on the other side of the room.)

On my intim tank, I fight a bit, but find it is better to hold him so everyone can go full bore. I can self heal from norm to elite and need no healing at all.


Let me repeat that so it is very clear. My intim tank does not need a healer for any reason at any difficulty of VoD when he is tanking.



I have also done the orthons (2nd wave) AND sully at the same time to help group.

In ToD I have been in near wipes when the hate tank fails and my intim tank has had a group or orthons, horoth, and sully at the same time at the portal while everyone raises and regroups. While self healing.


Having played both a healer and an intim tank, in my personal opinion, you are crazy to not use a 'good' intim tank.

Hate tanking we always wait around for the aggro. We have to wait for the re-aggro. We have to watch the healers burn through scrolls and mana like crazy.


Why in the world would you not use an intim tank (unless the tank is garbage)?


Not having to wait for a tank to get aggro or reacquire it allows TREMENDOUS damage, way more than any one character could ever do in the same time.



My vote is intim tank. I would rather have that massive DPS hate tank beating on the boss the entire time along with the party, at no resource cost to the clerics.




On part 4 shroud I always hear, 'which cleric is taking round 1' and so on. On my intim tank I hit one side and intim while fighting. Very little damage should go to anyone except for a little AoE and when the blades come in. Anyone taking damage is standing between me and the prey, its their fault for that.
Part 5 can be that way too, without deception or ranging, without fail.


Hound, any difficulty, using intim to keep Xzzy on me instead of the little hounds makes it super easy to heal through...even elite.


as a healer, why would you not want a character specifically built to hold all aggro, high healing amp, high ac, high damage mitigation doing the tanking. IT IS WHAT AN AC TANK w/INTIM IS BUILT FOR.

1 distinction here. You talk about hate tanks like they have no ac. A true hate tank should have good ac, otherwise they really arent a tank. What you refer to here is big dps, using dps (not hate) to hold agro.

Ive had several occasions to use my high ac hate tank to tank vod and it was just as smooth as my intimitank. No waiting for agro, no expensive healing etc. It is very easy for a "good" hate tank to hold agro. Basicly by the time sully is "pulled" you have more than enough headstart to hold agro, everyone can go to town just as easily as on an intimitank.

The way hate works (as stated in an earlier post) is you have to out hate only 1 other pc beating on his back, the one with the most dps. So long as your dps+hate combine for > then the biggest dps'r in your group, you will never lose agro.

Wf'd palys can produce the most hate, though a wfd fighter can produce a bunch as well.

[royboy]

With considerations of all the bad things,that may happen.
Nothing better than a high AC/intmi-tank, with effective healing amp. If it appears, the campaign is headed towards failure. The AC/intmi-tank can gather and control , most of the aggro. Giving party, better chance for recovery.

Docsin.

[MrWizard]

alternatively, you could go with an all ac tank group with good healing amp and just surround him and go to town.
Not having to worry about whether he spins, moves, turns, etc.

Now that would be awesome. Especially for the one cleric or bard healing everyone.

[Ikem]

alternatively, you could go with an all ac tank group with good healing amp and just surround him and go to town.
Not having to worry about whether he spins, moves, turns, etc.

Now that would be awesome. Especially for the one cleric or bard healing everyone.

ive wanted to run one of those sometime, but there are just not enough ac tanks out there.

[Eeomis]

If its a no fail intim then take him as the entire dps of the raid group can be used as soon as the orange light goes on. If the intim doesnt have enough for a no fail then you should hate tank, preferably a WF.

The problem is how much intim is needed on elite (for Hound as well) I have only run into about 6 -7 intims on my server that have it that high, that play on a regular basis.

As a cleric I always want an intim for VoD because it saves a ton of resources. I rarely drink pots with an intim tank on hard.

Playing my intim with enough for no fail I say intim because I let the healers focus on all the smushy folks when the devils and Orthons appear. I usually take the first round of Orthons, then snag Sulu and take him to the corner. I dont take more than 10-15% dmg until the first round of devils. I know it doesnt make that much difference for normal if you have an all lvl 20 group but on elite it is the difference between the healers drinking a few pots versus running out of pots.