I need advice

[AltheaSteelrain]

Disclaimer: I am a gimp. I admit this from the bottom of my heart. Therefore I posted this so that you would understand my reason for gimpness, and help me lessen the gimpness of this character without suggesting to reroll a bard instead (which I don't want, for preference). Though I like bards and they are really a powerful class to play around with.

But enough of bards, I am here to seek knowledge.

Because I refuse to give up on this "concept" of mixing cleric and wizard, I continued playing my gimp Minionette up until level 13, with the split of 7 Cleric/ 4 Wiz / 2 Rogue. I could go on playing her up until level 20, if not for the AC problems which I am currently facing to the point of becoming sort of a wall.

Hence I realized how significant it is to splash monk if you plan on melee-ing with a divine caster. But still my "newbie" attitude towards the game beckons me to refuse buying monk to splash (or partly because I enjoy the utility over the min/maxing rogue has to offer) hence I scrounge the forums for a week (and also playing to unlock the 1000th favor on my home server Thelanis for an extra push to rerolling Mini) in search of a way to sort of min/max my gimp build for it to be less gimpy. But the reality is that I need the community itself to guide me, seeing that most of the forum posts in build advice either centered around "debates" and almost no explanation of why's and how the argument applies in practice (in part I understood most of them, but most arguments follow Epic Scenario, and less in mid to early late game (before epic content)).

But this post is not here to argue, it is laid out to tell my story in order for people to understand my reason of not refusing to accept the total gimpness of my attitude or build. Hence without further boring you with my story, let me represent the 5th "reincarnation" of Minionette, and hope this time I get it right, not the build itself, but what I had learned playing her gimpness for a long time.

Do note that I haven't put any tomes yet since I haven't yet figured out which is best to invest in, +2 or +3. While +2 is much more better suited in an even stat, I would prefer +3 odd stats since +1 Tomes are almost easily accessible through time (and redundant farming) and +3 is much more geared towards reaching that end game.

So the numbers below are somewhat low to look upon, adding to the fact that I think I am not yet in the mid-game, or lacking content (I reroll for TP and misbought delera by mistake hence using the other servers for tp grind/build experiments). Please do forgive the lack of knowledge in equipments, though I am aware of such items through the Crafting Program offered here, I believe I should not put any of them here so that the community would provide me with experience which gear is well suited given the situation of this character.

Minionette Version 5.0
28 pt Build
Elf
True Neutral

Cleric 11/ Wizard 5 / Rogue 4

Stats
Str 14 (or 13) + 3 or +4 tome = 16 - 18
Dex 17 + 5 level ups + 3 Enhancements +3 Tome = 28
Con 11 + 3 tome = 14
Int 12 + 3 tome + 1 Enhancement = 16
Wis 13 + 3 Enhancements + 3 Tome = 19
Cha 8 (or 9) + 3 or + 4 Tomes = 12 - 13

Feat Selections

While I do admit that 2 monk splash is definitely better, it doesn't necessarily follow that I should do so, since I believe what I will loose without monk, I'll gain elsewhere, in some other form in rogue. I believe this to be the utility and the extra damage due to sneak attacks. Though without monk extra feats, its either drop the BB - Cometfall metamagic feats (maximize-empower) for more melee prowess (weapon finesse and toughness) or drop quicken - emp. healing instead, and focus on a low DC BB which I think maybe problematic in the long run. I chose instead to specialize in healing and support, since A) I might not be invited in epic raid content B) I plan to lead because of A C) I'm gimped, at least I wont be a burden to the party.

And since I dont have monk splash, AC is a problem, true. Hence I chose a finesse route to somewhat replicate the Wisdom - AC bonus through Dex. But my knowledge here is limited, do enlighten me.

Feats:

Quicken Spell - Wizard Bonus Feat
Extend Spell - Wizard Bonus Feat
Empower Healing
Toughness
Power Attack
TWF
GTWF
ITWF
Weapon Finesse

Skills

While I do understand that I cannot, under any circumstances can substitute as a rogue, in my experience, having an unreliable but still viable trap monkey during PUGs is a godsend, and solo questing is somewhat a breeze given the nature of my schedule and my belief of self reliance. But ultimately, I just enjoy the utility of a rogue splash for solo-questing, as well as the evasion splash that I love both in monk and rogue splashes. On rangers, its a different story, I have a love-hate relationship with level 9 prerequisite for evasion. Or probably its the gimp attitude that's talking: I cant think of a good multigimp with a level 9 ranger! >.<.

Again, low numbers are posted since it is subject to the items/tomes I will find in-game. But I think it'll show you the general idea of my skill selection.

UMD = 23 ranks (22: -1 from cha)
Concentration = 16 ranks
Tumble = 1 lol
Balance = 22 ranks (this is subject to my experience. I cant live without balance, I play supporting roles, hence getting disabled in combat is a sin)
Search, Spot open Locks = 4 Ranks
Disable Device = 9 ranks

Enhancements

Not much to say here, since I had posted this already before noticing I forgot to add this part. Lets just say its specced for healing, rapiers, sneak attacks (lvl 4 rogue) and stat bonuses and scroll heals. Also I put more on + SP enhancements for longevity in supporting roles.

I think at this point you have already an idea of how to ungimp my gimpness, but if I would request something from you other than advices, it is to please "fix" this build in the context of the mix above. Do not post anything that suggests me to reroll as this as that etc etc unless for comparisons only of what I will gain or loose. Like I said, I REFUSE to give up on this splash out of principle: out of all classes I played unlocking the game on every server, this mix is the one I liked to play most with, to the point of not worrying that I'm not unlocking any new content past delera's tomb/catacombs at all! I hope somehow people remember that some people don't play to win, but to enjoy, and winning is subject to what they want to accomplish. And this is what I want to accomplish, a successful mix of wizard,cleric and rogue that is decent until end game. And I surrender this build to the community in order for you to help me accomplish this.

Tread softly, for this is someone's dream.

Thank you and have a good day.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Maybe go closer to Cleric 13/Wizard 7.

This would get you Heal, Blade Barrier, Displacement, Haste, Stoneskin and Wall of Fire.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Chaotic Good Elf Female
(13 Cleric \ 7 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 214
Spell Points: 951 
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 9
Will: 13

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             16                 21                   21
Dexterity            16                 17                   17
Constitution         12                 12                   12
Intelligence         12                 12                   12
Wisdom               10                 10                   10
Charisma              8                  8                    8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               5                 14                   14
Bluff                -1                 -1                   -1
Concentration         5                 24                   24
Diplomacy            -1                 -1                   -1
Disable Device        n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                 -1                   -1
Heal                  0                  0                    0
Hide                  3                  3                    3
Intimidate           -1                 -1                   -1
Jump                  3                  5                    5
Listen                0                  0                    2
Move Silently         3                  3                    3
Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                  1                    1
Search                1                  1                    3
Spot                  1                 11                   13
Swim                  3                  5                    5
Tumble                4                  4                    4
Use Magic Device     n/a               n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longbow
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead
Spell (1): Bane
Spell (1): Bless
Spell (1): Cause Fear
Spell (1): Command
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (1): Doom
Spell (1): Inflict Light Wounds
Spell (1): Nightshield
Spell (1): Nimbus of Light
Spell (1): Obscuring Mist
Spell (1): Protection From Evil
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Spell (1): Shield of Faith
Spell (1): Summon Monster I


Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
Feat: (Automatic) Inscribe Scroll
Spell (1): Jump
Spell (1): Detect Secret Doors
Spell (1): Burning Hands
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Spell (2): Aid
Spell (2): Bear's Endurance
Spell (2): Bull's Strength
Spell (2): Close Wounds
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (2): Deific Vengance
Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor
Spell (2): Find Traps
Spell (2): Hold Person
Spell (2): Inflict Moderate Wounds
Spell (2): Lesser Restoration
Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Spell (2): Seek Eternal Rest
Spell (2): Soundburst
Spell (2): Spawn Screen
Spell (2): Summon Monster II


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Spell (3): Bestow Curse
Spell (3): Blindness
Spell (3): Contagion
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (3): Dispel Magic
Spell (3): Glyph of Warding
Spell (3): Inflict Serious Wounds
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Spell (3): Mass Aid
Spell (3): Prayer
Spell (3): Protection From Energy
Spell (3): Remove Blindness
Spell (3): Remove Curse
Spell (3): Remove Disease
Spell (3): Searing Light
Spell (3): Summon Monster III
Spell (3): Water Breathing


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Spell (4): Chaos Hammer
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Spell (4): Deathward
Spell (4): Dismissal
Spell (4): Divine Power
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Spell (4): Holy Smite
Spell (4): Inflict Critical Wounds
Spell (4): Mass Shield of Faith
Spell (4): Neutralize Poison
Spell (4): Order's Wrath
Spell (4): Panacea
Spell (4): Poison
Spell (4): Recitation
Spell (4): Restoration
Spell (4): Summon Monster IV
Spell (4): Symbol of Flame
Spell (4): Unholy Blight


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Spell (5): Break Enchantment
Spell (5): Flame Strike
Spell (5): Greater Command
Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds
Spell (5): Mass Inflict Light Wounds
Spell (5): Protection From Elements
Spell (5): Raise Dead
Spell (5): Slay Living
Spell (5): Spell Resistance
Spell (5): Stalwart Pact
Spell (5): Summon Monster V
Spell (5): Symbol of Pain
Spell (5): True Seeing


Level 11 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Spell (1): Grease
Spell (1): Tumble


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Invisibility


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Spell (6): Banishment
Spell (6): Blade Barrier
Spell (6): Cometfall
Spell (6): Create Undead
Spell (6): Greater Dispel Magic
Spell (6): Greater Glyph of Warding
Spell (6): Harm
Spell (6): Heal
Spell (6): Heroes Feast
Spell (6): Mass Bear's Endurance
Spell (6): Mass Bull's Strength
Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (6): Mass Eagle's Spendor
Spell (6): Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds
Spell (6): Mass Owl's Wisdom
Spell (6): Summon Monster VI
Spell (6): Symbol of Fear
Spell (6): Symbol of Persuasion
Spell (6): Undead to Death
Spell (6): Word of Recall


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Spell (7): Destruction
Spell (7): Greater Restoration
Spell (7): Mass Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (7): Mass Inflict Serious Wounds
Spell (7): Mass Restoration
Spell (7): Mass Spell Resistance
Spell (7): Protection From Elements, Mass
Spell (7): Resurrection
Spell (7): Summon Monster VII
Spell (7): Symbol of Stunning
Spell (7): Symbol of Weakness


Level 17 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Spell (2): False Life
Spell (2): Scorching Ray


Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Spell (3): Rage
Spell (3): Haste


Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (3): Ray of Exhaustion


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Spell (4): Wall of Fire
Spell (4): Stoneskin
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum I
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum II
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing III
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing II
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Quickening I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Quickening II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life III
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III

I'm tired so I just copied from the planner.


Anyway, you're missing Improved Critical in there so crafting a set of Mineral 2 rapiers is top priority. Fight inside your Firewalls; Maximize is important for this. It'll also help your Blade Barriers.

You'll have the levels for three mass heals (though they won't be at full strength), so raid healing is also possible, though it will probably be tough without good gear.

The first ten levels have nine Cleric in them so you'll be able to Raise Dead faster, as well as get Mass Cure Light Wounds which will help out a lot.

STR-based because it saves you a feat and to do more damage.


It only needs one tome (+1 DEX), though +3 STR and +2 CON would also be good.



Ok, too tired to keep writing. Hope that helped a bit.

[AltheaSteelrain]

I figure you got so tired that you hadn't noticed the 10 wis 12 int initial stats for this multigimp. :P

But thanks for pointing it out though that I can still squeeze in a little spell-casting even with low DC's being viable even in the late game (before epics).

[AylinIsAwesome]

I figure you got so tired that you hadn't noticed the 10 wis 12 int initial stats for this multigimp. :P

But thanks for pointing it out though that I can still squeeze in a little spell-casting even with low DC's being viable even in the late game (before epics).

Eh, that heavily multiclassed you wouldn't be able to do casting off of DCs anyway, since your spell penetration would be very poor and you wouldn't get much use out of Heighten.

I did forget though that you'll either need a +1 WIS tome or Cleric WIS 1 in order to be able to cast level 7 spells (need 10 + spell level in the casting stat), though what I posted could probably use some refinement, especially in the later levels.

Good luck though.

[AltheaSteelrain]

Eh, that heavily multiclassed you wouldn't be able to do casting off of DCs anyway, since your spell penetration would be very poor and you wouldn't get much use out of Heighten.

I did forget though that you'll either need a +1 WIS tome or Cleric WIS 1 in order to be able to cast level 7 spells (need 10 + spell level in the casting stat), though what I posted could probably use some refinement, especially in the later levels.

Good luck though.

Wait... Can + stat on items qualify me for spell casting level?

I.E., wearing +4 int ring from a 10 int stat = 14 int and therefore lvl 4 wizard spell access?

If so then your post above makes sense.

Reviewing your post suggestion above, it also made sense that you didn't put empower spell there; looking back on using both emp/max on on Minionette V. 4.0, I realized the sp cost is not worth it especially in the later levels.. Is that also your reason, or is there something else that I missed?

Although THF is also viable, I prefer TWF because I prefer to invest in vorpals/paralayzing/whatever debuffs weapons hence the idea behind rogue 4: for action boosts. Though my knowledge is limited, even to the point of the number of action boosts available, I am assuming that I can only boost my attack speed once until next shrine, hence is somewhat a situational skill. Though this theory is somewhat challenged by practice and experience.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Wait... Can + stat on items qualify me for spell casting level?

I.E., wearing +4 int ring from a 10 int stat = 14 int and therefore lvl 4 wizard spell access?

If so then your post above makes sense.

Yep, this is how it works.

Reviewing your post suggestion above, it also made sense that you didn't put empower spell there; looking back on using both emp/max on on Minionette V. 4.0, I realized the sp cost is not worth it especially in the later levels.. Is that also your reason, or is there something else that I missed?

Well, Empower Healing is more efficient for healing, plus that's where the Cleric's enhancements are to reduce the cost. Also you're a bit short on feats... Also missing Improved Critical.

Although THF is also viable, I prefer TWF because I prefer to invest in vorpals/paralayzing/whatever debuffs weapons hence the idea behind rogue 4: for action boosts. Though my knowledge is limited, even to the point of the number of action boosts available, I am assuming that I can only boost my attack speed once until next shrine, hence is somewhat a situational skill. Though this theory is somewhat challenged by practice and experience.

When you get Action Boosts you have 5 uses which last for 20 seconds on a 30 second cooldown.

In your case though I think getting more spells is more useful to you than getting 5 uses of Haste Boost 1 or 2.

[GhoulsTouch]

If it were me and I was bent on keeping it, I'd just go rogue for the remainder. 9 rogue/7cleric/4 wizard.
Maybe 7/8/5 instead. Go acrobat and tell people you belong in a circus lol

OOoo Acrobat Palemaster
scratch that

6/7/7 (6/6/8 if you redo it totally)

6 rogue 7 cleric 7 wizard...go acrobat palemaster of the undying circus...I mean court.

[AltheaSteelrain]

Yep, this is how it works.



Well, Empower Healing is more efficient for healing, plus that's where the Cleric's enhancements are to reduce the cost. Also you're a bit short on feats... Also missing Improved Critical.



When you get Action Boosts you have 5 uses which last for 20 seconds on a 30 second cooldown.

In your case though I think getting more spells is more useful to you than getting 5 uses of Haste Boost 1 or 2.

I see. So do I really need Imp. Crit feat for Vorpalling right?

Hmmm... Well its not like wielding scimitars/rapiers qualify me for something as crit based lol. Perhaps I should target on crafting a mineral II greensteel as you mentioned. :P That is if I make it that far into the game.

In the meanwhile I guess paralyzing/weakening/cursing weapons don't need a feat to work right? Haven't used em yet since I dropped TWF feat on my Minionette 4.0 for more Mental Toughness (and it takes too long to farm for +2 tomes on AH for my 15 dex variant using just delera's and f2p content. Perhaps VoN was a better deal afterall lol).

[AltheaSteelrain]

If it were me and I was bent on keeping it, I'd just go rogue for the remainder. 9 rogue/7cleric/4 wizard.
Maybe 7/8/5 instead. Go acrobat and tell people you belong in a circus lol

OOoo Acrobat Palemaster
scratch that

6/7/7 (6/6/8 if you redo it totally)

6 rogue 7 cleric 7 wizard...go acrobat palemaster of the undying circus...I mean court.

Its funny lol. I don't know how'd that work! :P

*imagines elf dual wielding scimitars tumbling around firewalls, while casting bright lights and chanting blessings, praying, somehow, these walls would suffice as contributing DPS while the rest of the party looks the other way, thinking of the inevitable wipe that might happen... Or not.*

[AylinIsAwesome]

I see. So do I really need Imp. Crit feat for Vorpalling right?

Not for Vorpalling. Vorpals only proc on a 20, which is unaffected by the lowest number you can roll to crit.

Improved Critical improves DPS though, as well as with any weapon effects that happen on a critical. Examples would be Puncturing (1d6 CON damage on a critical) or Banishing (on a critical the mob is forced back to it's own plane).

Note that rapiers cannot be vorpal as only slashing weapons can have that ability.

Hmmm... Well its not like wielding scimitars/rapiers qualify me for something as crit based lol. Perhaps I should target on crafting a mineral II greensteel as you mentioned. :P That is if I make it that far into the game.

Mineral 2 weapons are automatically keen, which is the same thing as Improved Critical. Make them rapiers though, since you won't have access to the Scimitar enhancements as you do not have a feat for Scimitar proficiency.

In the meanwhile I guess paralyzing/weakening/cursing weapons don't need a feat to work right?

Those should work the same regardless of the presence of Improved Critical. Paralyzing will be best for several levels.

[ninjaeli]

i dont understand what wizard is for.. if you want haste UMD scrolls or GS haste clicky.

[AltheaSteelrain]

i dont understand what wizard is for.. if you want haste UMD scrolls or GS haste clicky.

Not just haste, some other self buffs. :P

And also I do like to play with gimped builds, just wanted to know more from the community to make it less gimpier and decent.

[iconiclastic]

Well since your going rouge and you have wizard as well I would take the precision feat so that you can duel weild vorpals while in sneak mode,If you take off your str item you should do no damage and so not aggro the mobs and when you roll a 20 and comfirm it the mob dies and you never even get hit.Withe a high enough sneak you could possibly solo entire dungeons without ever being seen,you will just have to recast invisibility alot.