Noobs are still clueless!

[Disavowed]

Still can't look at the LFM's wothout at least 1/3 of them looking for DPS but leaving ranger off the list.

Very annoying.

(there posted in the correct place this time)

[bubbazen]

Yeah! What he said.

~ Tempzilla

[xanvar]

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[grodon9999]

Got the same issue on Ghallanda. Level 9 Ranger 6/Fighter 3 with almost 200 HP, Mithril Full plate, dwarf holding two axes and people think I'm an archer.

Sigh . . .

[Captain_Wizbang]

/signed

btw bud;;;;;

[stainer]

leaving ranger off the list.

You don't think that this is because of certain shroud piking pew pew ranger, do you?

*Disclaimer - Not all pew pew rangers are bad. Some of them realize they get the TWF feats free and take advantage of them.

[KoboldKiller]

Umm, are you referring to NEWBS because "noobs are still clueless" is a redundant statement.

[Slink]

You don't think that this is because of certain shroud piking pew pew ranger, do you?

You wouldnt happen to be referencing



would you?

[Spineflayer]

Couldn't agree more Beerman. On another note you can add rogues to that as well. I have 3 rogues and 2 rangers and even the squishiest of them tops 400 hps unbuffed and everyone of them runs at the top of the kill list in pretty much every quest they do. (not that kill counts matter ) what people? 9d6+12 extra sneak attack dmg isn't dps? Anyway......Have fun all. See ya in game.

spineflayer
aka
Mtarl
Durgish
Durgash
Kentrick
Skeptic
Kindrel
Ultren

Yeah slink I saw that lfm and a couple others similar and laughed.....all I can say is shroud part 1 normal....3 deaths =p

[Disavowed]

Umm, are you referring to NEWBS because "noobs are still clueless" is a redundant statement.

You got me there it is redundent but I was referring to noobs and not newbs.

[Disavowed]

Couldn't agree more Beerman. On another note you can add rogues to that as well. I have 3 rogues and 2 rangers and even the squishiest of them tops 400 hps unbuffed and everyone of them runs at the top of the kill list in pretty much every quest they do. (not that kill counts matter ) what people? 9d6+12 extra sneak attack dmg isn't dps? Anyway......Have fun all. See ya in game.

spineflayer
aka
Mtarl
Durgish
Durgash
Kentrick
Skeptic
Kindrel
Ultren

Totally agree. I'm having the same issues with my rogue. I guess a tard is a tard is a tard. I wonder if these tards even look at a kill count. I doubt it if they did maybe they wouldn't be so stupid when it comes to DPS. Again, as you said. Not that kill count matters but at the end if said non dps player has kept up with the barbs and fighters you might want to rethink what DPS is. But I doubt they even look and if they do they put it to rest as it was a fluke.

So we have to deal with 10 con fighters and barbs who are "dps" but they are dead due to no hp.

Here's a clue noobs. Dead tanks can't dish out DPS regardless if the symbol by their name says fighter or barb. They have to be alive to dish out damage. I'll take a pally,ranger, or rogue w/ hp any day over a 10 con no heavy fort barb/ftr.

[Renvar]

I understand your frustration on this.

BUT, it's a pug. It's not a guild run. In a pug, you are getting so many players running these classes without the knowledge, gear, or build necessary to make it a contributing team member. They show up and have low hp, little or no fort, the wrong gear, and no idea how to play the toon. And it ruins it for the competent, geared, experienced players. It's a shame, but in a recent survey the folllowing was found to be true:

In a pug, you have the following probabilities:

Rogue:
Chance it has less than 200 hp at 20th level - 75%
Chance it has light fortification or less at 20th level - 50%
Chance they took mechanic line, have 26 INT for traps, 22 CHA for UMD and a 10 base strength, 8 base con - 35%
Chance they know how to play a dps rogue properly - 10%

Ranger:
Chance they went sniper or AA AND have no clue how to do anything but kite annoyingly and die - 60%
Chance they have less than 300 HP at 20th level - 80%
Change they are a certain piking, worthless ranger that shall remain niamoless - Even a 1% chance is too much. Never accept anonymous level 20 rangers. Ever.

Monk:
Chance they have a clue how to play a monk properly - 5%
Chance they have decent handwraps or gear - 5%

These classes can definitely do serious DPS, but if you are building a raid pug and the applier is not known or from a known guild, I can understand why some leaders are wary. Once bitten twice shy as the saying goes...

BUT, if it's not a raid, then no reason to restrict anything. Take whatever melee applies. How many non-raid quests do you really need top tier dps for anyways? IF they turn out to be a tool, it's probably not going to ruin the run.

Edit: But, don't forget to never take anonymous level 20 rangers. That rule still applies...You will thank yourself.

[Yazston_the_Invoker]

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Hey! Is that a Snake Plissken quote there, Xan????


oh, and /signed!
I'll take a ranger in my groups anyday, though I will always keep my fingers crossed that they know when to pull out the melees or that they don't kite things all over the map while screaming for hjeals...

[LordPiglet]

People like that are the people you don't want to group with anyways.

They're running the fighter, who can't pull a single boss off my tempest III in part 2. This is after I've been shield blocking for a minute letting them try to take aggro off me, so we can split them. 6 "dps" toons (fighters/barbs) and I've got the aggro from 3 of Harry's Lt's.

[shablala]

I understand your frustration on this.

BUT, it's a pug. It's not a guild run. In a pug, you are getting so many players running these classes without the knowledge, gear, or build necessary to make it a contributing team member. They show up and have low hp, little or no fort, the wrong gear, and no idea how to play the toon. And it ruins it for the competent, geared, experienced players. It's a shame, but in a recent survey the folllowing was found to be true:

In a pug, you have the following probabilities:

Rogue:
Chance it has less than 200 hp at 20th level - 75%
Chance it has light fortification or less at 20th level - 50%
Chance they took mechanic line, have 26 INT for traps, 22 CHA for UMD and a 10 base strength, 8 base con - 35%
Chance they know how to play a dps rogue properly - 10%

Ranger:
Chance they went sniper or AA AND have no clue how to do anything but kite annoyingly and die - 60%
Chance they have less than 300 HP at 20th level - 80%
Change they are a certain piking, worthless ranger that shall remain niamoless - Even a 1% chance is too much. Never accept anonymous level 20 rangers. Ever.

Monk:
Chance they have a clue how to play a monk properly - 5%
Chance they have decent handwraps or gear - 5%

These classes can definitely do serious DPS, but if you are building a raid pug and the applier is not known or from a known guild, I can understand why some leaders are wary. Once bitten twice shy as the saying goes...

BUT, if it's not a raid, then no reason to restrict anything. Take whatever melee applies. How many non-raid quests do you really need top tier dps for anyways? IF they turn out to be a tool, it's probably not going to ruin the run.

Edit: But, don't forget to never take anonymous level 20 rangers. That rule still applies...You will thank yourself.

behold the most inflated and exaggerated statistics. lol

[Renvar]

People like that are the people you don't want to group with anyways.

They're running the fighter, who can't pull a single boss off my tempest III in part 2. This is after I've been shield blocking for a minute letting them try to take aggro off me, so we can split them. 6 "dps" toons (fighters/barbs) and I've got the aggro from 3 of Harry's Lt's.

Yes, but are you the exception or the rule?

If you had to bet your paycheck on who does more dps: Pugger X (Fighter 20 or Barb 20) vs. Pugger Y (Ranger 20)
without seeing the guild name, toon, myddo, or any other information, which to you take?

Sure there are Tempest III's that will drink your fighter/barb's milkshake, but that has not been my regular experience with pug rangers.

[Renvar]

behold the most inflated and exaggerated statistics. lol

Of course. The stats are tounge in cheek. The point is that the ranger class can be a tempest melee or a ranged archer. The rogue can go melee dps or mechanic/support.

I know how experienced players run these builds but my point is that many puggers don't play them that way and thus, they are excluded from consideration.

[Grimdiegn]

I understand your frustration on this.

BUT, it's a pug. It's not a guild run. In a pug, you are getting so many players running these classes without the knowledge, gear, or build necessary to make it a contributing team member. They show up and have low hp, little or no fort, the wrong gear, and no idea how to play the toon. And it ruins it for the competent, geared, experienced players. It's a shame, but in a recent survey the folllowing was found to be true:

In a pug, you have the following probabilities:

Rogue:
Chance it has less than 200 hp at 20th level - 75%
Chance it has light fortification or less at 20th level - 50%
Chance they took mechanic line, have 26 INT for traps, 22 CHA for UMD and a 10 base strength, 8 base con - 35%
Chance they know how to play a dps rogue properly - 10%

Ranger:
Chance they went sniper or AA AND have no clue how to do anything but kite annoyingly and die - 60%
Chance they have less than 300 HP at 20th level - 80%
Change they are a certain piking, worthless ranger that shall remain niamoless - Even a 1% chance is too much. Never accept anonymous level 20 rangers. Ever.

Monk:
Chance they have a clue how to play a monk properly - 5%
Chance they have decent handwraps or gear - 5%

These classes can definitely do serious DPS, but if you are building a raid pug and the applier is not known or from a known guild, I can understand why some leaders are wary. Once bitten twice shy as the saying goes...

BUT, if it's not a raid, then no reason to restrict anything. Take whatever melee applies. How many non-raid quests do you really need top tier dps for anyways? IF they turn out to be a tool, it's probably not going to ruin the run.

Edit: But, don't forget to never take anonymous level 20 rangers. That rule still applies...You will thank yourself.

Lets pull %s out of our a$$, weeeeeee! 95% of all stats are 50% true.

[Doganpc]

Thought i'd add something...
As i've been pugging Korthos - Marketplace lately I can say the stereotypes are back in full force. All the Rangers have been kiter's, the Barbarians THF Axe wielders, Cleric healbots, and Rogues always in sneak mode. Entertaining on a level, yet frustrating.

Dogan
"Put the bow away so we can help!"

[Disavowed]

I understand your frustration on this.

BUT, it's a pug. It's not a guild run. In a pug, you are getting so many players running these classes without the knowledge, gear, or build necessary to make it a contributing team member. They show up and have low hp, little or no fort, the wrong gear, and no idea how to play the toon. And it ruins it for the competent, geared, experienced players. It's a shame, but in a recent survey the folllowing was found to be true:

In a pug, you have the following probabilities:

Rogue:
Chance it has less than 200 hp at 20th level - 75%
Chance it has light fortification or less at 20th level - 50%
Chance they took mechanic line, have 26 INT for traps, 22 CHA for UMD and a 10 base strength, 8 base con - 35%
Chance they know how to play a dps rogue properly - 10%

Ranger:
Chance they went sniper or AA AND have no clue how to do anything but kite annoyingly and die - 60%
Chance they have less than 300 HP at 20th level - 80%
Change they are a certain piking, worthless ranger that shall remain niamoless - Even a 1% chance is too much. Never accept anonymous level 20 rangers. Ever.

Monk:
Chance they have a clue how to play a monk properly - 5%
Chance they have decent handwraps or gear - 5%

These classes can definitely do serious DPS, but if you are building a raid pug and the applier is not known or from a known guild, I can understand why some leaders are wary. Once bitten twice shy as the saying goes...

BUT, if it's not a raid, then no reason to restrict anything. Take whatever melee applies. How many non-raid quests do you really need top tier dps for anyways? IF they turn out to be a tool, it's probably not going to ruin the run.

Edit: But, don't forget to never take anonymous level 20 rangers. That rule still applies...You will thank yourself.

All of the same things can be said about poorly built barbs and fighters. No con item, 10 con to start, no heavy fort, wrong feats, wrong armor, etc. I could go on all day about how many screwed up "tanks" there are out there as well. As you said it's a pug. That doesn't mean you can't get screwed up fighters and barbs any more than monks, rogues, and rangers. Again a tard is a tard is a tard no matter what class. It just ignored more if he's a barb or ftr, and the noobs are too stupid to know anything about how to build a toon.

My buddy is new to the game and asked what lfms he should join. I told him avoid anything omitting any melee classes for dps. Avoid anything where they must have a healer or any other class for that matter, or lfms saying no noobs as they are usualy newbs same for experienced only. I told him to look for lfms that take anyone and especially the ones that say be self sufficient. These LFMs demanding dps be only in the form of ftr/barb have wipe/noob written all over them.