Noobs are still clueless!

[Disavowed]

woo. grind inc >.<

LFG crucible elite

All that is is doing every GH quest on elite. That's pretty much the notm anyway for the XP. Not too many people are going to pass on Madstone & Cruci on elite even after the nerf.

[Disavowed]

We all agree people are Tards thing is in my experience and apparently in many others experience more tards appear with a bow icon or a little ninja beside their name. Does that mean I don't accept them in my runs no honestly most of this game it's easy enough to carry a party of gimps through a quest. Honestly its fun to watch the 83 hp level 20 wizzy (I'm really not making this up here) grab agro and die repeatedly.

I've seen just as many tards with a barb/ftr symbol as w/ a monk or rgr symbol. It's just not as obvious until you look at the death & kill counts or they open their mouths. Keep in mind I'm not in any guilds and thus if I'm not soloing or duoing w/ The Beergirl or a friend, I'm pugging. So I get the privelage of seeing many tards.

[jarlaxle_dourden]

Got the same issue on Ghallanda. Level 9 Ranger 6/Fighter 3 with almost 200 HP, Mithril Full plate, dwarf holding two axes and people think I'm an archer.

Sigh . . .

Wait ... you are level 9 and have ~almost~ 200 HP ... :S I wonder why people don't consider you a tank.

You asked for that one

[LordPiglet]

What do you mean? 2/3rds of all my shroud completes were run with levels 13-16 in the group... oh wait, guess that was prior Mod 9.

a lot of us newbs understand that the vets have the experience and were running shrouds at 13-16 back in the day. They also had better gear/equipment then a lot of the newbs have now at 16. I've been in a shroud with a lvl 14 newb, they went down like Paris hilton in a windstorm, and apparently "it's not my first time". That may not have been entirely their fault, as we ended up wiping due to poor play from several people and horrible lag. But they definitely had issues.

[Renvar]

Again a stalwart defender can't do dps if he's dead. Such as the one in feast today who had no fort item on at all. He got 1 shotteded in feast on norm again on NORM (he also got critted by an orcs arrow for 30% of his life just before we entered. 30% BY a FREAKING ARROW). While my level 12 ranger w/ 323 hp and a minos helm ended the quest with 83 kills the next 2 closest were the 2 casters, neither of them broke 30 kills. One of the other 2 melles didn't even hit double digits (another rgr & a barb go figure you can suck no matter what class). There is no way to slice it barb/ftr with all the feats and paths still suck in the hands of a noob. Yet the noobs keep f ing up the game with their tard lfm & dps expectations.

Again a tard is a tartd is a tard regardless if he's a rgr, barb, or ftr. These guys don't have one focus as you state (DPS). They see some feat they think would be cool that is irrelevent to dps and that becomes their one focus not dps or hp. Meanwhile the tards give them a free pass because the symol by their name says ftr/barb.

A couple comments:

1) You are not the typical pugger. Comparing a toon you have built and geared to a random pugger in Gianthold going to look pretty bad for the pugger. I don't care what class/race/build they are.

2) A player of your caliber is not normally what a leader gets when a pug ranger X applies to his/her LFM. If that was the case, then the LFM would probably only list rangers for melee dps.

3) I agree with you. There is no reason to exclude any melee classes when looking for DPS. That people do it is born of ignorance and laziness. Any class can be gimped and an inexperienced player could screw up even something as easy as a barb or fighter. You really aren't protecting yourself from gimps, although that is the goal.


I was just playing devil's advocate and presenting the reasons why people shy away from certain classes. These players are generally less confident in their own ability to cover for one or more party members who are not "up to snuff". It is their own lack of confidence and previous (relatively limited) experiences with poor players in that class that cause them to do this.

As they get more experience they will run into experienced, veteran players running rogues and rangers and see what these classes can do. Then they will not be so quick to exclude them from the LFM. Also, they will gain more confidence in themselves and will be more willing to take on any joiners with less restrictions.

[Renvar]

Wait ... you are level 9 and have ~almost~ 200 HP ... :S I wonder why people don't consider you a tank.

You asked for that one

Um... Level 9 =

20 heroic
48 ranger levels
30 fighter levels
54 con bonus (16 base + 2 tome + 4 item = 22 Con)
20 IFL Item
12 Toughness
10 Fighter Toughness
=
194

Maybe add another 20 or 30 for racials depending on race.

Whats wrong with ~200 hp at 9th level? Where else are you getting much more HP than that with a Tempest/Kensai build? Besides multiple toughness feats, which will probably come with the monk levels or fighter levels that have not been taken yet?

Seems OK to me. This build will end up with HP in the 520-570 range. Acceptable for a DPS focused melee. And besides, what exactly are you tanking at 9th level?

[Disavowed]

I've seen ranger excluded from lfm's by many people at different times, and ladies and gentlemen, saying it's only the 'n00bs' or 'newbies' is just kidding yourselves.

Several of the more well known guilds (whose name we all know, but i shall not quote, you all know who you are) routinely exclude classes from their lfm's (epics, tod's, speedruns, hell, anything they feel like), including rangers, rogues and monks on a regular basis.

Just watch the lfm's, and i guarantee you'll see it (the exception of course, being anyone they know personally or fellow guild members, or course! chortle, chortle!)

Stop the new player bashing, it's repetitive and inacurate, the idiots are old, new, young, old, male and female, they have always been here, and always will be.

Incidentally, the 'TR only' groups are even funnier, god knows how many completely clueless TR's have made it into raids continuously suprising me with the level of ignorance that can be displayed by someone that has levelled to 20, twice!

If someone is as experienced, well geared, and well built as you all seem to be by your forums posts, i have trouble understanding why you would need to pug out your quests at all? Unless you actually don't mind finding the odd silver lining in those grey cloud quests and raids, (something i've noticed when i'm feeling a little adventurous, and jump on that 'maybe' lfm just in case, there's always a suprisingly good player in there somewhere

So to summarise the gist of this too lengthy post for you all, blaming everything that ever happens in the game that you don't happen to like (on the day of course, no real consistency is expected or displayed that can be observed) on the 'newbies', 'noobs', 'freetards', or whatever derogatory term you have managed to dredge up to describe anyone that hasn't played the game as long as you have is getting old, is not true, and is only providing a more damning reflection on the OP's then anything else at this point.

Enjoy your undoubtatly witty rejoiners and reputation games that will surely follow from this post.

Coit out~

Ghallanda : Coitfluff, Coitfu, Coittimeh, Coitburner, Coithealz, Coitzinga, Coitrippr, Luciforge Son of Coit : Revelationz

Pay very close attention to spelling. A newb is someone new to the game. They contribute as much as they can but more importantly they listen & learn. A noob is the tards we're talking about. As I've said many times you don't have to be new to be a noob.

As far as why I don't just solo? As I've also stated several times. I've been playing for 4 years. In that time I've never been in a guild. Yes most stuff I could solo. The stuff I can't, I've been blessed. All of the many good guilds on Khyber let me in on their runs and show me the ropes, and I greatly appreciate them for that.

So I pug out of both necessity and pleasure. I enjoy running with newbs and showing them the ropes like the guilds on Khyber do for me from time to time. I give away more gear than I care to even think about. The same goes for plat. Yesterday was a mod fort and heavy form belt along w/ spot 11 min lvl 11 goggles. I'm bringing up 4 lowbies and have three friends new to the game all with at least 3 toons. Yet I still gave these guys gear that should have gone to me or one of my buddies. But if dude is a newb and willing to listen then I'm down for giving him gear to help him help himself and me.

So before you pipe off about how this post is damning to the OP you might want to ask around about how often I take a newbie under my wing. It's way more often then I call out the tard noobies that I'm referring to in this thread. But one can only take so much then it's time to vent.

Guess what? When a vet does this the rest of the seasoned players see it and you see subtle changes in how LFM are being posted, to put these noobs in check. You'll see lfms saying all welcome, we don't need a cleric to complete this quest, first 6 and we go, crucible newbies welcome we know quest well & we'll teach you. Once this happens there starts to be a change in the noobs attitude because their mind has been opened.

[Disavowed]

A couple comments:

1) You are not the typical pugger. Comparing a toon you have built and geared to a random pugger in Gianthold going to look pretty bad for the pugger. I don't care what class/race/build they are.

2) A player of your caliber is not normally what a leader gets when a pug ranger X applies to his/her LFM. If that was the case, then the LFM would probably only list rangers for melee dps.

3) I agree with you. There is no reason to exclude any melee classes when looking for DPS. That people do it is born of ignorance and laziness. Any class can be gimped and an inexperienced player could screw up even something as easy as a barb or fighter. You really aren't protecting yourself from gimps, although that is the goal.


I was just playing devil's advocate and presenting the reasons why people shy away from certain classes. These players are generally less confident in their own ability to cover for one or more party members who are not "up to snuff". It is their own lack of confidence and previous (relatively limited) experiences with poor players in that class that cause them to do this.

As they get more experience they will run into experienced, veteran players running rogues and rangers and see what these classes can do. Then they will not be so quick to exclude them from the LFM. Also, they will gain more confidence in themselves and will be more willing to take on any joiners with less restrictions.

You make some good points there +1

[Schmoe]

If someone is as experienced, well geared, and well built as you all seem to be by your forums posts, i have trouble understanding why you would need to pug out your quests at all? Unless you actually don't mind finding the odd silver lining in those grey cloud quests and raids, (something i've noticed when i'm feeling a little adventurous, and jump on that 'maybe' lfm just in case, there's always a suprisingly good player in there somewhere

I think you answered your own question there.

[Boldrin]

Here is what is sad... we were running hard and elite shrouds more commonly in pugs back at level cap 16.

Now days... I cannot trust in a pug of level 20 with names I've not seen before to pull weight thru a normal run. Bloody annoys me, I can go in shroud with one group and it rips thru it like it be water works - Harry dead in part 4 and the blades but half in... turn around put together another group and they screw around killing over the nameds in part 2 for the third bloody time, jump around on a puzzle while a wall is closing in without speaking up and suck up enough healing mana in two rounds akin to Disavowed on a binge on Easter had he given up beer for lent.

One of the worst issues now be also everyone be TR'ng left and right. Was a time you saw a TR and could very well know you had someone been 'round the block... These days the newbies rush to level 20, not even geared nor experienced, turn 'round and bloody TR and run it to 20 yet again. They have little knowledge of the game, have no real experience in playing the class they just were and then TR'd to some other class cap it and TR it again without learning the trade of any class. My advice to these people... play the class a while tweak it out, go start a new class on a different slot if is what you're looking for... but a TR is not going to magically be some significant upgrade, experience playing is.

Agree 1000000000000% I hate seeing all these TRs that are clueless. I don't have time to TR yet, but soon my Cleric gets a facelift..and a crankshaft... and a lube job(had to say it)

[Boldrin]

I've seen just as many tards with a barb/ftr symbol as w/ a monk or rgr symbol. It's just not as obvious until you look at the death & kill counts or they open their mouths. Keep in mind I'm not in any guilds and thus if I'm not soloing or duoing w/ The Beergirl or a friend, I'm pugging. So I get the privelage of seeing many tards.

Just as many? I've seen more... and fighters and barbs are not so self sufficient, and the cleric tends to notice.

[Rydin_Dirtay]

but a TR is not going to magically be some significant upgrade, experience playing is.

THIS. Nice post emili. 2 points ain't gonna make or break. Playskill will.

And to the guy who says this thread is new player bashing. It's not. Read Beerman's post above, he explains the differences pretty well. (Beerman = Disavowed).