Tempest 3 vs Tempest 2 + Kensai 1 Estimate Calcs

[Gol]

Tempest 3: +5% double hit, main hand only.
Other Ranger Goodies: +2 dmg vs FE

Kensai 1: +1 Hit/Damage, +2 seeker stacking
Other Fighter Goodies: +2 dmg (Weapon Spec), +2 Str (Enhancements)

5% Double Hit
I'm going to try to explain this in abstract terms, as different weapons will change the gross DPS. In any case, though, we're comparing TWF builds, so the weapons should always be the same for comparison purposes. Tempest 2 gets 100% offhand proc. At a 10 strength (unrealistic, but hang on), offhand damage is the same as main hand damage. As strength increases, the balance tips in favor of main hand, as it gets the full strength bonus to damage and offhand only gets half. At 40 Strength, the Main hand is getting +15 and the offhand +7. Here would be the average non-crit damage of a mineral 2 khopesh (for argument sake) without effects: 5.5 base + 5 enhancement + 5 PA + 7 songs + 10 Fav En + 15 strength + 2 shintao set = 49.5. Off-hand would be 42.5. These numbers are only meant to be approximate, but the ratio there is: the main hand accounts for 53% of your DPS.

53% * 1.05 (double hit) + 47% = 103.5%, for a net DPS increase of 3.5%. I don't claim this to be gospel, but it should be fairly representative.

Kensai 1
(Base damage math above)
Average Damage Main Hand (-2 Fav En, +2 Spec, +1 Kensai, +1 higher Str): +2
Off Hand: +2
(2/49.5) * 0.5 + (2/42.5) * 0.5 = 0.020 + 0.0235 = 4.35%

And since Kensai will have slightly higher base damage and the +2 seeker, factoring crits will push Kensai even further ahead. I know, I'm splitting hairs here to debate over 0.8%. Versus non-favored enemies, though, the Kensai splash gets even better since it adds to base damage.
(2/39.5) * 0.5 + (2/32.5) * 0.5 = 0.035 + 0.03 = 5.5%

I will personally be LRing my Ranger into Ranger 13 / Fighter 7, I think (Ranger 13 and Fighter 7 are both loaded with good enhancements).

[ArkoHighStar]

my head hurts

[grodon9999]

Don't forget to add in +1 STR from the fighters ENH.

Still think Tempest I/Kensai II will get you more DPS id that is what you're looking for. Rangers aren't max-DPS, they are max utility.

Do you gain enough DPS to make up for the lost utility? I'm not so sure.

[Gol]

Don't forget to add in +1 STR from the fighters ENH.

It's actually +2, and it's listed at the top under "other fighter goodies".

[lethargos]

hmm im working on 12/8 split ranger/fighter. What enhancements did 13th level bring vs. The 8th fighter level bonusfeat ?

[Plutocracy]

If it is pure 20 ranger, there should be +5 vs. favored enemy vs. 12 ranger. If exploiter build, then +3 vs. 12 ranger not +2 (favored enemy damage enhancement).

An additional favored enemy is nice, with 5 of them you are very likely to be getting FE damage, doing +14 damage. With 12 ranger only 3 favored enemies with +9 damage. Cutting out those two extra FE means often not fighting a FE.

Including fighter haste boost II, I would say fighter pulls ahead when fighting one of his 3 favored enemies, but ranger if it is one of the 2 FE enemies that the ranger has and the fighter doesn't.

[QuantumFX]

I like it. Finally a way for players to make some deeply multiclassed ranger build where I don’t need to give them a barkskin!

[Plutocracy]

hmm im working on 12/8 split ranger/fighter. What enhancements did 13th level bring vs. The 8th fighter level bonusfeat ?

2 levels of monk for 2 bonus feats, Wis to AC, more skill points and Balance as a CS, and +3 to all saves may be better than 2 more fighter, which only gets 1 feat, +1 FORT, and +1 more to hit.

Could even go longswords if you wanted to keep Ki strikes and stance.

[QuantumFX]

hmm im working on 12/8 split ranger/fighter. What enhancements did 13th level bring vs. The 8th fighter level bonusfeat ?

13 Ranger gives you Favored Enemy Damage IV.

[Gol]

If it is pure 20 ranger, there should be +5 vs. favored enemy vs. 12 ranger. If exploiter build, then +3 vs. 12 ranger not +2 (favored enemy damage enhancement).

Yeah, you can adjust numbers accordingly. Ranger 13 gets you that last enhancement point, though, so it only loses +2 vs an Exploiter (but is +4 behind the pure). I don't know many pure-Ranger tempests, personally, as that last FE and +2 damage really is the only reason to take Ranger 19 and 20.

[SEMPER]

currently have a 12ranger/6fighter/2monk = tempest2/defender

I took the defender because i use my Warforged ranger as a hate tank.. i like the extra hate that the warforged brute fighting and the defender give me and really have never had problems with holding agro from any other build and having 40+ str and a raid buffable 80 ac with this build i think this level split is a great build and will be still after u 5 and either defender/kensai are both viable

as for the level split i have been debating on taking 13 ranger or 7 fighter as both have bonuses on enhancements that would benefit the build but im starting to tr him so i will have time to think about it as i plan on Tr'ing him into at least monk / paladin / fighter all at least once

[LordPiglet]

Yeah, you can adjust numbers accordingly. Ranger 13 gets you that last enhancement point, though, so it only loses +2 vs an Exploiter (but is +4 behind the pure). I don't know many pure-Ranger tempests, personally, as that last FE and +2 damage really is the only reason to take Ranger 19 and 20.

Fighter 7 opens toughness III, Critical Accuracy III

is that better then picking up a 4th level ranger spell? (FoM or CSW)

[SEMPER]

Fighter 7 opens toughness III, Critical Accuracy III

is that better then picking up a 4th level ranger spell? (FoM or CSW)

also opens up another haste boost

[Gol]

Fighter 7 opens toughness III, Critical Accuracy III

is that better then picking up a 4th level ranger spell? (FoM or CSW)

I'd say CA3 is rather worthless since it doesn't add to damage, but Toughness 3, Haste 3, and Armor Mastery 3 are also there.

FoM is only moderately useful. Most Clerics/FvSs carry it, and you should be able to use scrolls of it at 95% if I recall. There's also Kundarak boots for when it matters enough.

[LordPiglet]

I'd say CA3 is rather worthless since it doesn't add to damage, but Toughness 3, Haste 3, and Armor Mastery 3 are also there.

FoM is only moderately useful. Most Clerics/FvSs carry it, and you should be able to use scrolls of it at 95% if I recall. There's also Kundarak boots for when it matters enough.

Never through about scrolls of it. I was thinking 13/6/1 with the 1 being barb or rogue for my TR. This is definitely an alternative though. I already have an exploiter I am leveling and this would be a change of pace.

[Grecan]

I'd say CA3 is rather worthless since it doesn't add to damage, but Toughness 3, Haste 3, and Armor Mastery 3 are also there.

FoM is only moderately useful. Most Clerics/FvSs carry it, and you should be able to use scrolls of it at 95% if I recall. There's also Kundarak boots for when it matters enough.

FoM scrolls aren't sold at any shop, u can only loot them and/or buy them from the AH.

I also think that if you can't cast the spell, you can't cast it from a scroll, either, unless you have enough UMD.

What are those Kundarak boots you speak of?

[chintao]

Fighter 8 gets you the first fighter wep damage enhancement as well.

So 12/8 fighter
gets you haste boost 3
toughness 3
wep specializations for +3 (feat & enhancement)
Str 2
Kensai I for another 1/1 hit/dmg and +2 seeker

That gices you + 5 dmg total w/str which equals the gains of 20 Rngr vrs FE
and you get haste boost 3 and more toughness sounds good to me...

[Raiderone]

I just switched my Kensai II / Tempest I and Rogue build.
I didn't need any tool to figure out that higher percentage offhand attack was better.

Plus if you add in the fact that now more SPells versus other build (better RE of 30, Barkskin and more)

So I'm going Tempest II / Kensai I and rogue build. Looking at better Search, Spot,
DD, OL and UMD.

Currently at 10 Ranger/6 Fighter/1 Rogue...Elf Rapier Build.. I'll add two more Ranger
then decide on last level whether it be Rogue,Ranger or Fighter???

[Nyvn]

I also think that if you can't cast the spell, you can't cast it from a scroll, either, unless you have enough UMD.

I know clerics can cast cast raise dead, from scrolls before level 9. Not at 100% success, but fairly well.

[Gol]

I also think that if you can't cast the spell, you can't cast it from a scroll, either, unless you have enough UMD.

What are those Kundarak boots you speak of?

You can use scrolls with a caster level check. Rangers need a caster level of 14 for FoM and it's -5% chance for each level you're short. Good to know that you can't buy them, though.

Kudarak Delving Boots - raid loot from the Vault of Night raid. Only item in the game that grants full blown Freedom of Movement.