R.I.P. Barbarian

[Boromirs]

And this does kill barbarians. Glancing blows do about 30% of a barbarians base damage, to every other strike when twitching. You TWFers think you have it bad, complaining about losing 10% offhand? Well THFers lose much more.

This was definetly a Barbarian nerf and NOT a TWF Nerf , at least not as much. I mean they even got rid of the stunning effect on weighted as if to mop up any last reservoir of advantage that a barbarian had. I really don't understand why Turbine is doing all this (effectively shafted the melee classes across the board). If they want to stay silent, I guess it's their choice, but this isn't a free MUD being hosted by a enthusiast programmer from his basement. This is a game where we pay RL money to play hence we deserve some type of explanation at the very least.

->My suggestion is to at the very least fix the barbarian capstone before all of this goes live. It's only fair since they completely neutered it by taking a key part of it out they should add something back in to make it what it was supposed to do in the first place.

-> I would also suggest they find another way to fix twitching. (And I blame this all on people like Shade and other Barb powergamers and their stupid epeen vids on youtube) because quite honestly I have no idea even how to twitch. Hit and runs and attacks while moving was what made the game fun, if you completely destroy that be lowering damage up to 40% then people will be forced to park their toons and go on autoattack mode. When we had it,it wasn't overpowered (if you didn't twitch). TWF for instance would out DPS the THF user when comparing attacks while moving right now. Post Nerf, the gap between the two while moving would be somewhere in the 50% ballpark, it would be nuts.

[Thrudh]

This was definetly a Barbarian nerf and NOT a TWF Nerf , at least not as much. I mean they even got rid of the stunning effect on weighted as if to mop up any last reservoir of advantage that a barbarian had. I really don't understand why Turbine is doing all this (effectively shafted the melee classes across the board). If they want to stay silent, I guess it's their choice, but this isn't a free MUD being hosted by a enthusiast programmer from his basement. This is a game where WE PAY RL MONEY to play hence we deserve some type of explanation AT THE VERY LEAST.

People might listen to you more if you didn't have huge mistakes in your arguments...

Stunning effect on weighted is where THF barbarians had an advantage?? LOL

Weighted items was the only way dex-based TWF could keep up with barbarians... Barbarian stunning blow is still hugely effective with their immense strength.

[Thrudh]

I should point out that I'm comparing Kensai THF to Barbarian THF...

Kensai's are ahead just a little bit only when Haste Boost is on.

Now, TWF fighter vs. THF barbarian... that's a different comparison.

[justagame]

I have said more or less the same thing about KOTC paladins -- glancing blows are a really significant percentage of damage. To those who would be inclined to dismiss this as whining (and yes, there have indeed been so many nerf-related threads that much gets drowned out), I would say the following:

I have no problem with the concept of a need to slow down overall dps if that really is the problem. But this completely cripples a playstyle, and I am NOT referring to 'twitch'. I'd be fine, if, as another poster suggested, the swing animation timing was simply spaced more evenly to remove the twitch advantage. When THF-ing, moving is your main defense. Mobs usually don't stand still. I think many people would be surprised just how often they are moving. Furthermore, moving glancing blows was an integral and arguably the most valuable aspect of the THF feat chain, and it's getting completely blown away, and for THF builds that have significant damage that procs on glancing blows (notably frenzied barbs and KOTC pallys), it can be up to 30% of your dps.

And other than lag, these changes were also, according to the devs, to reduce the extreme dominance of twf? Hardly. I am now considering rebuilding my capped THF toon (with greensteel) as a TWF because of the changes. Sure, TWF got a nerf, but one that is neither as severe, or that forces a radical change to playstyle.

[redraider]

My 18/2 Barb/Ftr with Max Stunning Blow and Improved Trip will still be an absolute blast to play after the update.

Trip one, stun one, kill two.

Max DPS? No, but not far enough behind that anyone but the idiots who do the DPS calculations will care.

[Sweyn]

At first, i thought my Tempest III was getting hit hard with TWF, but when i played on Lamannia, i could barly tell a difference, my Barb on the other hand... it just may not be fun to play him anymore.

[SquelchHU]

Your amount of doom threads started per minute is approaching squelch level, slow down a bit cowboy.

Lies. I don't start doom threads, I just post in them.

[redoubt]

what is the point of WF great weapon aptitude now?

It seemed that turbine realized that glancing blows were important, now they are being taking away unless we stande perfectly still.

Could we please get a less drastic change?

[Boromirs]

Yeh TWF, really didn't get hit too badly. It sounds bad on paper but once you start playing on Lam land it's hardly noticeable. Again, what really surpirsed me was the distinct nerf for the Barb, I mean it was only maybe 3 minutes into GH that I actually started opening up my INV/Stats/feats to make sure I got everything and nothing was wrong with my character.

Overall, Barbs sux at defense, Barbs sux compared to Kensai fighters on "special" attacks, and Barbs now sux at offensive. So, the queston becomes, what are Barbs good at?

[Razcar]

Oi! The doom thread title "R.I.P [Class name]" is already taken by us rogues! Infringement! Expect to hear from the rogue forum's solicitors Crushyer & Bones shortly.

[Krag]

Yeh TWF, really didn't get hit too badly. It sounds bad on paper but once you start playing on Lam land it's hardly noticeable.

Because of the Lammania-only mob hp reduction.

[Boromirs]

what is the point of WF great weapon aptitude now?

It seemed that turbine realized that glancing blows were important, now they are being taking away unless we stande perfectly still.

Could we please get a less drastic change?

I think they tried to kill many birds with one stone. Thinking that this would bolster S&B (which Im all for but just NOT in this way) while killing the twitch user. Because you see the only way Barbs can retain some semblance of their former self is to stand completely still (INSTANT DEATH as anyone playing a barb will tell you), and the only way to do this without dying is to get a initmitank round up all the mobs while your barb stabs them in the back.

[Boromirs]

Because of the Lammania-only mob hp reduction.

Perhaps... it's so hard to tell what the heck is going on in the test servers because the devs keep you in the dark somewhat. But, assuming everything is about the same then TWF really didn't make off that well, and relative to THF they actually improved.

[Lorz]

Another pointless doom and glom thread with no real facts or meat just more of the belly aching.


Deal dude...it will be here in a week or so and then you can start a whole newfound of your b&m


Nobody cares. Really.

[PopeJual]

What they should do is get a clue. Players who twitch are just telling turbine through their actions that they want to DO something while they're fighting, not just be a passive participant.

I thought that players who twitch were telling Turbine that they want more attacks per minute.

I don't know anyone who twitches while TWF'ing and you get the same extra "DO something" from TWF twitching - you just miss out on the extra attack speed.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

I should point out that I'm comparing Kensai THF to Barbarian THF...

Kensai's are ahead just a little bit only when Haste Boost is on.

Now, TWF fighter vs. THF barbarian... that's a different comparison.

This isn't just about damage dealt it's also about damage mitigation. Throw twitching out the window and barbarians still have to move when being attacked. When they already take damage simply from raging this change is huge.

Barbarians already had it hard enough with multiple bugs going on that never get any attention, self harming (**** emo barbs), and unable to buff themselves.

I think twitching should be removed, twitching isn't dodging blows, but it shouldn't be done this way. Attack animation should invalidate twitch style.

I used to love playing my barb but he feels too much like a liability even now before U5 hits.

[smatt]

Another pointless doom and glom thread with no real facts or meat just more of the belly aching.


Deal dude...it will be here in a week or so and then you can start a whole newfound of your b&m


Nobody cares. Really.

Ha Ha "Glom" LOLOLOLOL

Another infected with the Smatt virus of bad typing..... Turn off guild chat

But I digress that Barbs SHOULD be the highest pure DPS in the game... Not becasue that was the lastest toon I leveled.. But because they don't/can'tdo anything else, and can't self buff or heal themselves.. Even if they really wanted to... Most TWF mutts could do many things IF the godlike fingers that control them looked beyond one trick pony mode....

Ya, I'll go with the premise of this thread that there are indeed winners and losers.. There always are.... But who cares, life goes on... Adapt adjust or cry......

[sirdanile]

Your amount of doom threads started per minute is approaching squelch level, slow down a bit cowboy.

This.

[Visty]

my thf char (not a barb though but what you are describing are thf things and not exclusive to barbs) doesnt have gthf and doesnt have any problems

just another overreacting thread imo

i wonder who gave me the neg rep for that

prolly one of those 2 who replied to my post and didnt read it carefully

[Delacroix21]

I've stayed outta the whole debate, but as a TWF kensai with spring attack... I have to say that a ton of damage can be avoided by moving and attacking. Not on every type of mob, but on enough for it to matter. Giant types (including ogres and trolls) will generally hit you regardless, but spiders, slimes, skeletons all have attacks that can be easily avoided by moving. Most of the other stuff fits somewhere in the middle.

Yes, you can move and attack to avoid enemy hits. But not while "twitch" fighting which involves a slight movement side to side, as seen in this video=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-jwJxaKlJU


That being said this really isnt an overall "nerf" when compared with TWF, as TWF also losses massive dps while moving and attacking. That being said I would still like to see glancing blows while moving.