Razebot - A build for people who want to see the whole game on a budget

[Lobster5]

I made a belated migration from the EU to the US last month (and actually had 18 months out of the game) so I came to the US servers with nothing and wanted to make a character that I could take painlessly (and enjoyably) through the whole game.

I've read a lot of builds on these forums and most are very skillfully done, all of them will outperform Razebot in every activity but one - achievable results for new players who want something a bit different.

Razebot is built to PUG. He can fulfil several roles and will be an asset to most PUGs. He is not built to be awesome in end-game content. He is not built to generate a lot of DPS.

I'd like to say this build is for new players, but I really think something like a pure fighter or cleric would be best for the newest of the new. That said, if you're new to DDO but a quick learner, this could be for you.


Razebot - 11 Wizard/3 Rogue/6 Fighter Warforged.

Stats - 28 point build

Str 15 (all level ups but one go here)
Dex 16 (one level up at level 8 here for TWF)
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 6
Cha 6

Level Progression and Feats

1. Rogue - Feat = Toughness
2. Fighter - Bonus Feat = Stunning Blow
3. Wizard - Feat = Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword (seriously) Wizard Bonus Feat = Extend
4. Wizard - Stat point into STR
5. Wizard
6. Wizard - Feat = Two weapon Fighting
7. Wizard - Bonus Feat = Maximise
8. Rogue - Stat point into DEX
9. Wizard - Feat = Mental Toughness
10. Wizard
11. Fighter - Bonus Feat = Improved Two Weapon Fighting
12. Wizard - Feat = Empower spell, Stat point into STR
13. Wizard
14. Wizard - Bonus Feat = Quicken
15. Wizard - Feat = Improved Critical: Slashing
16. Fighter - Stat point into STR
17. Fighter - Bonus Feat = Power Atack
18. Rogue - Feat = Greater Two Weapon Fighting (on the assumption you can get a +2 Dex tome by this point)
19. Fighter
20. Fighter - Bonus Feat = Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Skills

Points go into UMD, Search, Disable, Rogue levels are used to keep these as close to max as possible. By doing this you can have trap skills that, while not stellar, will get you through almost everything on Normal with fairly standard equipment. If you can find space for Open Locks that works nicely too.


Enhancements

Max Elemental Manipulation
Max Racial constitution
Max Racial Toughness
Fighter Toughness II
Fighter Haste Boost II
Warforged Damage Reduction I
Warforged Healers Friend I
Wizard's Intelligence I
Energy of of the Scholar III
Fighter Strength II
Rogue Skill Boost I
Warforged Inscribed Armour I
Warforged Tactics I
Fighter Strategy - Stunning Blow I
Fighter Strategy - Trip I
Rogue Dexterity I
Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Wizard Force Manipulation III

And the remaining points you can spend how you like

Spells

Just recommendations, being a Wizard you can do whatever you like. In bold are spells that I think are essential. Repair spells are useful at almost every level but once you get reconstruct you can dump the others. Bulls and Bears are great until you get items that make them unnecessary, etc. I will say that you should not try any spell that mobs have to make a saving throw against. Razebot's DC is pathetic.

Level 1 Jump, Shield, Magic Missile, Nightshield, Expeditious Retreat
Level 2 Resist Energy, Blur, Repair Moderate Damage, Scorching Ray, Bulls Strength, Bears Endurance
Level 3 Haste, Displacement, Rage, Protection from Energy, Magic Circle Against Evil, Heroism
Level 4 Firewall, Dimension Door, Fire Shield, Solid Fog
Level 5 Cone of Cold, Teleport, Cloudkill
Level 6 Reconstruct, Greater Heroism


Equipment

Bastard Swords are not great weapons. They might get a little better in update 5 but they are little better than longswords. The reason Razebot uses them is because they are cheap. If you've got cash coming out of your ears then simply swap Bastard Sword for Khopesh and never look back, but you can get Vorpal Bastard Swords for 150,000 gold. Equivalent Khopeshes cost 10x that. Bastards Swords are cheap and plentiful on the AH, they are the best way for a new player to equip themselves with some really solid gear. A vorpal bastard sword is the same as a vorpal anything, all you care about is 20s. It similarly goes (sort of) for disruptors, smiters, and banishers. Using weapon effects rather than raw damage in the 13-17 level range will be your bread and butter.

This build doesn't need great equipment to work, it isn't designed around great equipment and I run it using stuff entirely pulled from chests and the occasional dip into the AH. No equipment is essential save for moderate fortification and A divine power clicky.


Playstyle

Level 1-6 - Hit things with a Greataxe. Fix yourself when necessary. Blur yourself and the party when you can.
Level 7-9 - The above, but do it permanently Hasted and Displaced.
Level 10-17 - The above, but do it standing in a firewall and swinging dual bastard swords
Level 18-20 - Enjoy trying to convince people to take you in to raids. (seriously this will be an uphill struggle, there are lot of people who won't think you know what the hell you did when you built your character, the best idea is to lead the raid yourself )


So there it is, a self-healing, self buffing tanking rogue robot that is a blast to play and easy on the wallet. This build is very survivable and very forgiveable. It can even raise the dead later in the game!

[Adalita]

Inb4 the pile on of ppl telling you how gimped this build is unless you include at least 5 tomes, TR twice and grind Shroud 20+ times

Congrats on putting up a genuine new player friendly build.

[KirinRanger]

Just out of curiosity, is there any particular reason why you say to use a Greataxe from 1 - 6?

[Lobster5]

Just out of curiosity, is there any particular reason why you say to use a Greataxe from 1 - 6?

At the lower levels 2 handed fighting will outperform 2 weapon fighting, regardless of feats taken. 2 weapon fighting becomes worth it when you get the Improved 2 Weapon fighting feat. The Greataxe is the best 2 handed weapon unless you're a Paladin.

You could actually build this character more easily by going completely 2 handed and taking the WF enhancements to that, but dual wielding vorpal weapons is so powerful that it makes the 2 weapon fighting line worth it on its own.

[Comfortably]

At the lower levels 2 handed fighting will outperform 2 weapon fighting, regardless of feats taken. 2 weapon fighting becomes worth it when you get the Improved 2 Weapon fighting feat. The Greataxe is the best 2 handed weapon unless you're a Paladin.

You could actually build this character more easily by going completely 2 handed and taking the WF enhancements to that, but dual wielding vorpal weapons is so powerful that it makes the 2 weapon fighting line worth it on its own.

A Falchion does more DPS, actually. TWF doesn't really become awesome until 11 or so.

Builds like this make me gag a little, just because they are spread so thin, you can't cast well or melee well enough to really make it worth it. You don't get to see the whole game, because well, you're just sub par at anything end game.

If you are going to spec TWF purely for duel wielding vorpals, why not make a monk? Then you could swing those vorpals super fast.

[Lobster5]

A Falchion does more DPS, actually.

Under certain conditions it will do narrowly more DPS, under other conditions (vs anything that can't be critted, or used with low strength) it will fall behind. Additionally the Falchion because of its new "ultimate DPS" status is now massively inflated in AH price. The Greataxe swings faster and is a more satisfying weapon to use in a "feel" sense. It is a better weapon for new players.

TWF doesn't really become awesome until 11 or so.

I agree, which is why I put it in the 10-17 level range in the playstyle bit.

Builds like this make me gag a little, just because they are spread so thin, you can't cast well or melee well enough to really make it worth it. You don't get to see the whole game, because well, you're just sub par at anything end game.

Employing nebulous phrases like this isn't a very good argument. What do you mean by cast "well enough" or melee "well enough"? This build can solo most quests at level, it is often top of the kill count, it has utility against most mobs in the game. It casts haste and firewall as well as most other builds can, it blurs just the same as anyone else, casts GH just the same as anyone else. It's not a high DC caster but these aren't particularly sought after at any point in the game. It's not the top of the melee tree but it's good enough to be an effective melee in any quest.

And if you need some traps done it can do those too.

The problem with players like you and indeed most of the people who post here is that you have played the game for so long that you have become utterly abstracted from the reality of the game to newer players, or casual players, or just anyone that PUGs. So therefore if something isn't at the bleeding edge of whatever specialism you deem appropriate you declare it to be of no use, and the "not useful in end game" argument comes flooding out.

Let me state for the record that I do not give a **** about end game and this build isn't for that. If you want to be uber in the end game then pick one of the other 300 builds around here and deck it out in all the grinded gear that everyone seems to believe is vital in order for one's character to be viable. Then go and run the Shroud 80 times and repeat ad nauseum. This build isn't for you, it's for people who have never seen the Shroud or even Velah. It's for people who want a character that can survive and be lots of fun to play, and who need something that is forgiving of mistakes. A warforged is forgiving of mistakes, self healing is forgiving of mistakes, lots of hp and evasion are also very forgiving.

So yeah, I won't get invited to your Shroud group but somehow I'll learn to live with that.

[shablala]

Under certain conditions it will do narrowly more DPS, under other conditions (vs anything that can't be critted, or used with low strength) it will fall behind. Additionally the Falchion because of its new "ultimate DPS" status is now massively inflated in AH price. The Greataxe swings faster and is a more satisfying weapon to use in a "feel" sense. It is a better weapon for new players.



I agree, which is why I put it in the 10-17 level range in the playstyle bit.



Employing nebulous phrases like this isn't a very good argument. What do you mean by cast "well enough" or melee "well enough"? This build can solo most quests at level, it is often top of the kill count, it has utility against most mobs in the game. It casts haste and firewall as well as most other builds can, it blurs just the same as anyone else, casts GH just the same as anyone else. It's not a high DC caster but these aren't particularly sought after at any point in the game. It's not the top of the melee tree but it's good enough to be an effective melee in any quest.

And if you need some traps done it can do those too.

The problem with players like you and indeed most of the people who post here is that you have played the game for so long that you have become utterly abstracted from the reality of the game to newer players, or casual players, or just anyone that PUGs. So therefore if something isn't at the bleeding edge of whatever specialism you deem appropriate you declare it to be of no use, and the "not useful in end game" argument comes flooding out.

Let me state for the record that I do not give a **** about end game and this build isn't for that. If you want to be uber in the end game then pick one of the other 300 builds around here and deck it out in all the grinded gear that everyone seems to believe is vital in order for one's character to be viable. Then go and run the Shroud 80 times and repeat ad nauseum. This build isn't for you, it's for people who have never seen the Shroud or even Velah. It's for people who want a character that can survive and be lots of fun to play, and who need something that is forgiving of mistakes. A warforged is forgiving of mistakes, self healing is forgiving of mistakes, lots of hp and evasion are also very forgiving.

So yeah, I won't get invited to your Shroud group but somehow I'll learn to live with that.

I do not see how this build can be more forgiving, more effective, more survivable, more self healing, more dps, more effective that a plain old 18wiz/2rogue. A WF Wiz/2rogue splash is 10x more effective, and does pretty much everything else much better without gimping the build at all, and still be quite viable for end game.

Why would you plan on a lvl20 build and at the same time say this is not for end game? so what are you going to be doing at lvl20?

Also why set the bar so low for a new player by putting it in their head that end game is not for them. ANY pure class build is much more viable for a new player than something like this.

By also spreading 3 classes too thin, it is actually the opposite of what you are claiming it to be. This is TOTALLY not a new player friendly build, since you are letting get their spells 3 lvls later than the actual game progression. While this is no big deal for someone who knows the game, it can be quite limiting to a new player.

99% of multiclass builds that require more than 1-2lvl splashes are definitely not for a new player. That's just my opinion.

[Irinis]

Why all the hate for utility builds?

This might not work for every pug or raid especially if the leader is closedminded, but actually should be able to solo very easily in low levels. The only concern is that firewall is put off to level 10. 1-7 will be very easy, 7-10 will be slightly more difficult unless you're running quests along with a more pure arcane and you're just buffbot/self-healer while they are nuker. (Unless you've never played an arcane and don't know what you're missing!)

It's usually easy to pick up a +1 tome, depending on the server you're on, so plan on putting all lvls into STR.

Also, a build like this is fantastic for favor farming through low level quests.

[Lobster5]

I do not see how this build can be more forgiving, more effective, more survivable, more self healing, more dps, more effective that a plain old 18wiz/2rogue. A WF Wiz/2rogue splash is 10x more effective, and does pretty much everything else much better without gimping the build at all, and still be quite viable for end game.

You're looking at two completely different characters there though.

On the one hand this is a melee character that uses spells to help the party and do damage, on the other hand you've got a mostly pure caster that does something completely different.

Why would you plan on a lvl20 build and at the same time say this is not for end game? so what are you going to be doing at lvl20?

At level 20 I'm going to be raiding and doing everything everyone else does, although not for long because I'll be on to my next character a little while after cap. My point about this being "not for end game" is that it isn't built to peak at level 20. It's built to be powerful and easy to play throughout the game.

Also why set the bar so low for a new player by putting it in their head that end game is not for them. ANY pure class build is much more viable for a new player than something like this.

You think pure rogue is more viable for a new player? How about pure fighter when you don't have decent gear or a good idea how to manage aggro? Pure Cleric and Bard, sure, but those again are very different characters. This is essentially a melee character that can look after itself and provide itself with everything a melee character needs (haste, blur, resists). It not only gives new players some insight into being a wizard, it gives them an insight into what melee players often like to see from wizards.

By also spreading 3 classes too thin, it is actually the opposite of what you are claiming it to be. This is TOTALLY not a new player friendly build, since you are letting get their spells 3 lvls later than the actual game progression.

I think this sort of betrays the main problem with your argument. You think this build is to be played like a wizard. It isn't. You play it like a fighter with fringe benefits.

While this is no big deal for someone who knows the game, it can be quite limiting to a new player.

Anyone can take this character and batter through most quests on normal healing themselves while they go. They don't even need to cast the buffing spells for the character to be a decent melee.

99% of multiclass builds that require more than 1-2lvl splashes are definitely not for a new player. That's just my opinion.

And yet a lot of utility is very attractive to new players, and that's what I've provided. I think it's a more friendly option than saying "go roll a cleric"

[megathon]

Keep in mind that new players don't have access to warforged. So how about a build that is accessible to new players with the available classes from the start?

[ConnorMacLoad]

Keep in mind that new players don't have access to warforged. So how about a build that is accessible to new players with the available classes from the start?

This was my thought when I first read this. These types of builds really need WF to shine, and a new player will not have WF, so they will end up using something like and elf or dwarf.....maybe halfling (but there goes 3 feats for self healing)

I like these kinds of builds actually. I prefer 13wiz and then mix in your utility after that. Kensei I is not that useful and the extra 2 levels of wiz are more useful IMO.

In the end, this is a very fun build, that has the potential to be a really useful build. It will require a lot of hard gear to find, and a good player though. This however is not a new player friendly build at all. It will surely not be cheap.

Just play a cleric and pike the game. everyone loves a cleric.

[Lobster5]

Keep in mind that new players don't have access to warforged. So how about a build that is accessible to new players with the available classes from the start?

I would argue that not all new players are free players, and that WF doesn't cost you that many DDO points. You really can't do this build without WF, but for something close and a lot of fun along similar lines:

Dwarf 15 Bard/3 Rogue/2 Fighter

Str = 14 (3 level up points go here)
Dex = 15 (2x level ups so you get ITWF at level 9)
Con = 16
Int = 10
Wis = 8
Cha = 12

[Lobster5]

I like these kinds of builds actually. I prefer 13wiz and then mix in your utility after that. Kensei I is not that useful and the extra 2 levels of wiz are more useful IMO.

What level 7 spells do you want to use though? Greater Teleport is the only one that I can think of. Delayed burst fireball has a save associated so DC matters somewhat. The extra sp is nice but Fighter 6 doesn't just give you Kensai, it gives you more toughness and more strength, plus an extra feat and more bab and hp.

In the end, this is a very fun build, that has the potential to be a really useful build. It will require a lot of hard gear to find, and a good player though. This however is not a new player friendly build at all. It will surely not be cheap

Can you elaborate on this? I started this build with no items and no money and now it's decked out with disruptors, paralysers, and vorpals. I don't really know what gear you consider to be essential to it.

[Irinis]

I would argue that not all new players are free players, and that WF doesn't cost you that many DDO points. You really can't do this build without WF, but for something close and a lot of fun along similar lines:

Dwarf 15 Bard/3 Rogue/2 Fighter

Str = 14 (3 level up points go here)
Dex = 15 (2x level ups so you get ITWF at level 9)
Con = 16
Int = 10
Wis = 8
Cha = 12

Agreed.

[HallowedOne]

Depennding on how good PM PrE becomes then one could swap to it if he doesn't have acess to wf for the self-heal. but you'd need a different combo, maybe 12/6/2, since it requires at least 12 wiz levels.

[lazyninja81]

I have a very similar build in the works (admittedly it's become more of an alt now). Have to agree with pretty much everything said here.

My original goal was 7 Wiz/12 Ranger/1 Rog, though I think 12 Wiz/6 Ranger/2 Rog will work better. The build is a lot of fun to play and you can easily solo tons of low to mid level content (haven't got to high level content yet). However, easy is relative. The build does require smart play and knowledge of the quests helps.

However, the criticisms of the build are founded. Sure you can self-cast displacement and haste, but the short durations will make you have to frequently recast and you're mana pool is much less than a full wiz. Also, putting off firewall so long hurts. That was my biggest mistake I feel in leveling was not going 1 Rog, 2-8 Wiz for quick access to FW and haste. And meleeing does become more difficult at higher levels as those wiz levels are a drag on the BAB.

However, all con's aside, this build will still be tons of fun to play. With some good gear and a smart player you can still make it work. But you're right, you might have to be party leader often as groups may be wary of accepting you unless you're known to them.

Good luck!

[ConnorMacLoad]

What level 7 spells do you want to use though? Greater Teleport is the only one that I can think of. Delayed burst fireball has a save associated so DC matters somewhat. The extra sp is nice but Fighter 6 doesn't just give you Kensai, it gives you more toughness and more strength, plus an extra feat and more bab and hp.



Can you elaborate on this? I started this build with no items and no money and now it's decked out with disruptors, paralysers, and vorpals. I don't really know what gear you consider to be essential to it.

I personally like tensers (a lot), and I also like acid fog. Just having 4 more options for spells in general is a better option IMO. Plus any future proofing.

As for the gear, I am not the best to get into a gear equipment conversation. I am sure there are others that can dazzle you better than I can with the types of gear required.

I will just say that this build, although fun, is not as easy to play as other new player options. Not as cheap, and not as easy to get into groups. Do not get me wrong though. I like these types of builds, I just think your target audience is wrong.

[ConnorMacLoad]

Agreed.

me too. the axsinger was one of the most fun builds i played at the start. very new player friendly. now if they would just let bards be lawful

[HallowedOne]

How I wish tenser's were useful on this game...

[ConnorMacLoad]

How I wish tenser's were useful on this game...

hmmmm, it seems i may have overlooked something. is the spell gimped or something?