New Rogues.

[QuintonReece]

By the time you get radiance you should be in sneak almost all the time...if you are an assassin.
You can only assassinate in sneak mode.

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Assassinate

/rant on -

No!

/rant off

[lifestaker]

[Ranmaru2]

Is that post even necessary Cerial? Just reading some of the posts has the same effect

And actually Ghouls, by the time most get a radiance done, you're probably 18 so you're swinging for natural 20s without worrying about sneak mode and a % insta-death anyways.

[lifestaker]

Is that post even necessary Cerial? Just reading some of the posts has the same effect .

It was. Stopped me from head desking. Don't want to mess up the new keyboard like I did my old one.

[wamjratl1]

or instead of sneaking you could simply hang back a few steps and let it hit something else.

or you could use the diplomacy skill (preferably next to the caster that fingers everything the melees are pounding on)

or you could get a radiance weapon/guard

or not sweat it bc with subtle backstabbing/tharnes/etc you won't have aggro for long

or just quit qqing

This

[dragonmane]

LOL! I gave up trying to explain it. It is so complex that when they do grasp it, thier head asplodes.

Did you just say their head assplodes?

[Rindalathar]

Is that post even necessary Cerial? Just reading some of the posts has the same effect

And actually Ghouls, by the time most get a radiance done, you're probably 18 so you're swinging for natural 20s without worrying about sneak mode and a % insta-death anyways.

Ghouls,

This...

I have an assassin who (guess what?) never bothers to sneak for an assassinate attempt. Takes way too long, only effects one mob and keeps me from laying waste to radiance blinded monsters. If you're pulling aggro with a rogue at high levels for more than a few short seconds, something is very wrong.

[Rauven]

First, correct you do not need to be in sneak to get sneak attacks. Nor do you need to be in sneak to control your agro. Attacking while in sneak is slower and thus reduces your dps. Note that this will be changing with U5 so this rant is sorta pointless since those rogues who insist on remaining in sneak when attacking will automatically pop out of sneak upon attacking.

But, with 30% striders and second to fourth tier of faster sneaking you can easily maneuver while in sneak to position yourself for an assassinate, which must be done while in sneak. Tends to work great on casters since assassinate is a fort save; so you can take them out while the caster in your group fingers the mob the melee just beat down to 10% hp.

Takes way too long, only effects one mob and keeps me from laying waste to radiance blinded monsters.

Don't know what you're doing but my assassinates usually kill two mobs. Then I pop out of sneak and still lay waste from behind. Death from above and below as long as it's from behind is my rogue's motto.

Also, saying that if someone doesn't have radiance weapons or guard or doesn't have a large % of threat reduction is doing something wrong is a fallacy often put forth by "vets" (i.e. people who've been here long enough to collect enough of everything to outfit a small army). End game may be where it's at but that's only because once you get there there's nothing more to do but collect it all and/or tr. But there are 19 levels from roll to end game (15 if you have vet roll) and someone who's been playing for a couple months is not going to have all the mats to make a tier 3 double imbued rad II rapier at lvl 14.

I'm not saying rogues should sit in sneak all the time, but outright discounting the utility of sneak is just as wrong.

Also, there is one fundamental function that can not be performed in any stance other than sneak and that is stealth humping the chest for better loot. It works a lot better than diplo.

By the time you get radiance you should be in sneak almost all the time...if you are an assassin.

Actually, by the time you get your rad II's (or 2 rad II's for that matter) you'll probably not be spending all that much time in sneak trying to get off assassinates. Many of the mobs you'll encounter at that point will be immune or save against your assassinate attempt. I'd be a sad murderous monkey but rad II's are just so much fun.

[Mercules]

Guys, the OP is talking about levels 1-10. I've seen them too, rapier out sneaking along insisting they are "scouting" ahead and then attacking the first thing that comes within range.

Even worse are the ones that just stealth everywhere and get ahead of the party and don't attack anything. I am hoping I never have to have a discussion like this again.

Me "Please stop sneaking ahead."
Rogue "I am scouting."
M "You are triggering encounters which then see the rest of the group and start the next fight before everyone is ready. Besides there are Undead and Spiders up ahead."
R "Don't worry I'll be fine."
M "They can see you."
R "My stealth is high enough no one sees me."
M "Undead ALWAYS see people... the only way they don't is if there is a triggered spawn and Stealth doesn't make it trigger."
R "Nah Aaah... see that Zombie didn't see me."
M "Thats because they have random agro and agro'd on the Wiz."
R "This is my second Rogue. My other one is level 9. I don't think you know what you are talking about."
Me *sighing* "Ok."
Rogue *starts taking damage* "Ah... ah..." *ding* "Maybe you are right."

Stealth can be a useful skill. I've seen party wipes turned around with a solid Stealth and cleverness. I've found a couple quests you can completely stealth (Gwylan's Stand) if you want a challenge.

However, there is a very easy way to avoid agro without ever going into Stealth Mode. Bring a Barbarian. They are very intent about getting into the next fight before their Rage wears off or anyone has a chance to bring their HPs up above 25 or reapply any buffs other than Haste & Rage. They will get to the fight first, agro just about everything in the area with minimal effort. Follow them in and be sure and stab the mob closest to dead. This encourages them to race off again after fresh mobs they can hopefully kill before that kill stealing Rogue comes along... usually through the nearest trap giving you insight to it's existence since a lot of the newer Rogues are forgoing Spot as a skill.

[Skani]

Bring a Barbarian.

This. Or just anyone who can survive aggro

Before Radiance, first rule for rogue is to "Avoid Aggro", and you dont need to walk in stealh to do this. That just means you are not the first to enter the room or trigger events. Be one step behind some "big guy", and just after he will get the aggro of anything, you come to play. Attack anything he attack, and if somehow you will get aggro and mob is not death (which probably means there is something wrong with your SA/"big guy" DPS or mobs have tons of HP in this particular quest), hit diplomacy and wait or move to another mob you dont have aggro from. Oh, and be ready for some rage from "big guy", because you steal most of his kills

Stealh running for assasination? Meh. Run thru any mob who is not interested in you, jump forward when running, press stealh while in midair, land in stealh near mob, use assasination, mob death (works perfect for casters who stands in one spot). You just spent 1 sec in stealh while still having mobility and speed (which "stealh walking" dont give). If someone else triggered mob, you will not get the aggro just from running to them, so it always work.

And after radiance and Assasin III...gogogo, rule the KC.

[Bodic]

The absolute only time I sneak is when solo or bumping off that pesky named guy w/assassinate like ALL names in the VALE(solo). Those named whirling MOB's. or just for fun I jump in and sneak on my way to the ground kill 1 then bash (out of sneak) another that the ftr/barb just trippd for me.

[Spode]

LOL!
I'm assuming that you people who are ranting about rogues sneaking don't actually have a rogue.

A rogue MUST be in sneak mode to assassinate...period.

RTFM :P

[kamimitsu]

"Undead ALWAYS see people... the only way they don't is if there is a triggered spawn and Stealth doesn't make it trigger."

Completely untrue. It is entirely possible to sneak by undead. Spiders, Oozes and Bats are impossible as they have tremor sense (or ultrasound). Undead, however, you can slide right by.

LOL!
A rogue MUST be in sneak mode to assassinate...period.

I'm pretty sure the OP is talking about 'new rouges'. That is, low-level pre-assassin rogues sneaking around (slowly) and attacking from stealth (slowly) in quests like Kobolds New Ringleader. Thankfully for the OP, attacking from stealth now breaks sneak mode, and this should be much less of a problem.

[wamjratl1]

LOL!
I'm assuming that you people who are ranting about rogues sneaking don't actually have a rogue.

A rogue MUST be in sneak mode to assassinate...period.

RTFM :P

Not all rogues are assassins. And most assassins I know never assassinate anything (at least when grouping). A decent high-level assassin can kill 3-4 or more mobs in the time the other rogue snuck up on a baddie for the one-shot kill.

Regardless, I think the OP was talking about new, lower level rogues who aren't really understanding how sneak attacks or stealth really work.