Weapon for snb cleric?

[dorf23]

[QUOTE=Angelus_dead;3053914]Most of those effects are non-damage so the kind of weapon is irrelevant. Paralyzing, Cursespewing, Shattermantle, and Vorpal may as well be on a Sickle or Dagger or whatever else. Characters with the khopesh feat would not bother trying to get those effects on a khopesh, unless they happen on one by luck.
True ... so you might as well buy them cheap. On my server, a bs is usually cheaper than any other weapon because the demand is so low.

[Daggaz]

You dont have a fighter splash, any racial weapon bonuses, and I am assuming here you have max wisdom and a mediocre strength. Why in the world would you burn a feat on _any_ weapon proficiency?? You arent ever going to do any decent damage, you wont even be in the ballpark of the lowby dps builds. You will, in fact, be lucky to even hit mobs at cap.

Truth be told, you should save your precious, precious feats for spellcasting or even more toughness (can never have too many hitpoints) and just get some decent proc's on your normal allowed weapons. You can do "plenty" of damage with a heavy mace, for example, at least at the lower levels. And at higher levels, its going to be more effective for your build to just try and paralize or curse or vorpal etc.. rather than worry about DPS and weapon base damage.

For comparison my main is a 18cleric/fighter2 battle cleric with max strength (all lvl ups here) and a large assortment of weapons. Im a dwarf, so I usually stick to dwarven axes and greataxes, for the racial axe bonus, but I have blunt force trauma weapons as well, and a cold iron holy pick for rakshasas and spiders. I often use a shield, but its for the DR and NOT the ac, which is pointless at cap. (I unlocked the light and darkness shield from mindsunder while grinding xp, nothing else on the list appealed to me) The DR 5/epic and the +6 resistance bonus to saves makes me much more survivable, but the damage is still weak compared to two handing, especially on crittable mobs where lowly Carnifex still works wonders. I have the full THF feat chain and power attack as well.

So that is an example of a cleric build that gets something out of using other weapons, as I can actually hit mobs with power attack on at cap and I do a reasonable amount of DPS. Most importantly, I get martial weapons and an exotic weapon without burning a feat. Of course, I did give up the capstone for that fighter splash, something I wouldnt recommend for your toon if you are indeed more caster orientated.

[Arsont]

You dont have a fighter splash, any racial weapon bonuses, and I am assuming here you have max wisdom and a mediocre strength. Why in the world would you burn a feat on _any_ weapon proficiency?? -Snip-

Why? Because I want to. 'Nuff said.

[Daggaz]

Why? Because I want to. 'Nuff said.

You asked for optimisation advice, you got optimisation advice. Dont like the answers fine, but dont be snooty about it. Using a feat for weapon proficiency on your toon is a complete waste of time, and you would be more effective (and probably have more fun) if you spent it elsewhere, for example on a metamagic that will tweak your offensive casting. Destruction and blade barrier for the win.

[MateCarefor]

The Sceptre of Healing from Invaders! is not terrible as it amps your main role, healing, a bit in group while giving something to whack with.
I would echo above to fill in something till lvl 10 and go with an effect weapon.

We ran a cleric/clogue duo that had 1 paralyzing and 1 vorpalling.
Honestly, it was pretty tedious, but worked for mid-level junk. Blade Barrier was the main offensive asset we had at the end of the day.

[Arsont]

You asked for optimisation advice, you got optimisation advice. Dont like the answers fine, but dont be snooty about it. Using a feat for weapon proficiency on your toon is a complete waste of time, and you would be more effective (and probably have more fun) if you spent it elsewhere, for example on a metamagic that will tweak your offensive casting. Destruction and blade barrier for the win.

First off, I apologize if I came across as snooty. I'm not intending to be snooty. But I also did not ask for optimization. I simply asked which would be the most effective weapon to use, given 1)Human 2)14 Str 3) No multiclassing. Reread my first post to see what I meant.

I'm well aware I won't be doing uber DPS. That doesn't bother me. I have all the metas I need (I don't like running both Max and Emp on top of Emp Heal-And my current build is already planning to take Max and Emp Heal), so if anything I'd be burning it on a Toughness. True, I could use a status inducing weapon, but that's not my style. If whatever weapon I happen to be using has it, hooah. Otherwise, I'd just prefer to do the most effective I could be while swinging a weapon and saving SP. There are so many places where I'd prefer to save SP and just melee trash mobs than waste it casting, especially once mob HP inflation gets horrible (Read:Epic).

For me, having fun is directly related to how much I'm doing. If I'm in a group with plenty of dps, I tend to sit around and do nothing for a good bit of time (Since I tend to save SP if I'm the sole healer, especially on quests I'm not familiar with). That does not equal fun for me. I'd much rather prefer to be up there whacking stuff, even if I don't hit hard. I'd gladly take a weapon proficency feat if it means I can have more fun with my character. Currently, my lv 3 cleric is running around with a scimitar. It's a blast. I was simply wondering what weapon was the best to use with snb. A-D reminded me that snb becomes pretty useless in a few levels(Unless I can get a decent shield for DR), and suggested I use falchion, which I intend to try, since I can just swap the WP:Scimitar for Falchion.

And should I become disenchanted with the idea of using a melee weapon, I can simply swap out the feat later for a Toughness or something.

Hopefully that clears things up for you.

[jsaving]

I'd much rather prefer to be up there whacking stuff, even if I don't hit hard. I'd gladly take a weapon proficency feat if it means I can have more fun with my character. Currently, my lv 3 cleric is running around with a scimitar. It's a blast. I was simply wondering what weapon was the best to use with snb.

As others have pointed out, it isn't optimal from a powergaming point of view for a caster cleric to make sacrifices on behalf of weapon DPS. But if what you're telling us is that you'd like to do it anyway, simply because it would make the game more enjoyable for you, then going khopesh or else splashing fighter would be the two most straightforward routes available to you.

[Angelus_dead]

it isn't optimal from a powergaming point of view for a caster cleric to make sacrifices on behalf of weapon DPS.

That's not really true. Clerical offensive casting is not universally useful so that switching to weapons would never be an improvement.

[Arsont]

As others have pointed out, it isn't optimal from a powergaming point of view for a caster cleric to make sacrifices on behalf of weapon DPS. But if what you're telling us is that you'd like to do it anyway, simply because it would make the game more enjoyable for you, then going khopesh or else splashing fighter would be the two most straightforward routes available to you.

I am not a powergamer, so I'm fine making sacrifices if it means I enjoy myself more (For example, my main is a lv 17 monk. Been a lv 17 monk for several months. I'm in no rush to level). Also, I'm staying pure classed.

Now, I see you suggested khopesh. Which takes me back to my first post. Is the khopesh still the most effective weapon, considering I won't be improving the crit range and whatnot? Because, in my understanding, that's what made the khopesh "teh uber" for dps. Because, if bastard sword is applying glancing blows while in snb, I'd rather take that over the khopesh. Please help by explaining a bit.

Finally, from what I've been reading/hearing from some experienced clerics (Many of whom have capped), offensive casting is immensely useful, but being able to melee to save SP is very useful as well (Particularly in epics).

Thanks for your input.

[Angelus_dead]

Now, I see you suggested khopesh. Which takes me back to my first post. Is the khopesh still the most effective weapon, considering I won't be improving the crit range and whatnot? Because, in my understanding, that's what made the khopesh "teh uber" for dps. Because, if bastard sword is applying glancing blows while in snb, I'd rather take that over the khopesh. Please help by explaining a bit.

1. Khopesh would only be the most effective if you had two of them and the GTWF feat. Otherwise no one-handed weapon is anywhere in contention.
2. It would be illogical to train the khopesh feat on a character that wasn't planning to get Improved Critical. You'd do better to just get Improved Critical instead. The khopesh feat should be considered as secondary to Imp Crit, except that it has a lower level requirement meaning you can train it chronologically earlier.
3. Why would you prefer glancing blows to a khopesh? How powerful do you think those glancing blows are? (They're hardly noticeable)

Finally, from what I've been reading/hearing from some experienced clerics (Many of whom have capped), offensive casting is immensely useful, but being able to melee to save SP is very useful as well (Particularly in epics).[/color]

The more accurate way to put it is that in epic situations, the spellpoint saving comes mainly from the fact that you're not wasting mana on offensive casting.

For an epic melee contribution, I'd say to simply use a quarterstaff: Ralh's Might. You're creating a -8 AC penalty to help others hit, and whenver someone stuns a monster you can bonk it for triple auto-crits plus a burst.

[Arsont]

A_D,

As for the first part, yes, that was my assumption as well. I'm under the impression that khophesh is best when used in a pair, while making use of the large crit range (Through feats and enhancements). As for the bastard sword, it was merely an example of a weapon I'd prefer to use over the khopesh (Besides, I prefer the aesthetics of them). Since I'm not likely to trade out a third level feat (As clerics cannot choose exotic weapon proficiencies at first level), I'll be sticking to martial weapons if I burn a feat. Meaning, I'd be able to keep whatever weapon proficiency (WP:Falchion, atm) until the time I'd be able to get Rahl's Might, at which point I'd probably be switching around a few things anyhow. Correct?

[Angelus_dead]

Meaning, I'd be able to keep whatever weapon proficiency (WP:Falchion, atm) until the time I'd be able to get Rahl's Might, at which point I'd probably be switching around a few things anyhow. Correct?

Sure, although be careful not to underestimate the cost of a feat swap at high level. Maybe paying hundreds of TPs doesn't bother you... but I prefer to start off with the feats I want at high level, and not train feats that I plan to replace later.

At the low levels you can cheaply exchange feats for a few dragonshards, but the number required increases 10x after levels 4, 8, 12, and 16 (that's a total 10000x multiplier).

[jsaving]

Yes, dishing out reasonable weapon DPS is nice for an offensive caster. And yes, khopesh proficiency without the usual supporting feats such as IC and the TWF chain won't in and of itself give you reasonable weapon DPS. But the implications of these facts for your build aren't necessarily obvious at first glance.

The reason some offensive casters struggle in epic is because their spells don't reliably land. To solve this problem, you can respec your character into a battle cleric, with large changes to your stats and feats whose end result is a significant increase in weapon damage -- and a significant diminution of your offensive casting capabilities. What won't solve the problem is to burn a single feat on khopesh or bastard sword while otherwise keeping your offensive-casting build.

I thought you simply wanted an offensive caster with a bit more melee punch than a standard OC build, which would improve your ability to melee occasional trash so you could conserve spell points. Either khopesh or bastard sword would give that to you, honestly. But if you're actually looking toward epic and hoping to dish out semi-reasonable DPS there when your OC capabilities fail you, no single feat can possibly make enough of a difference for you to notice.

If you like the idea of swinging a bastard sword while holding a shield, go for it -- you'll dish out modestly higher damage and at least slightly expand the level range over which you can make a meaningful melee contribution as a sword-and-boarder. I just want to make sure you are going into this with your eyes open, and not expecting more than the modest sacrifice of 1 feat slot can give you.

[Arsont]

-snip-

I thought you simply wanted an offensive caster with a bit more melee punch than a standard OC build, which would improve your ability to melee occasional trash so you could conserve spell points. -snip-

This. I'm not worried too much about doing "significant dps" in epics, since I -am- only burning the one feat. But, I figure it'd be a bit more fun than waiting around to heal or drop the occasional BB. Mostly, though, it is to do a little more melee damage than a standard OC without sacrificing anything in the casting department to trash.