Plz, need some advice for my Drow Sorceres

[Ghustor]

Im newbie on DDO, but veteran on many MMO and DnD, so I make a little project for a Drow Sorceres and I whant to know the opinions of the more experients sorceres. Please, I realy whant to know the pros and cons, mainly the cons. TKS!!

Drow (for more DC)
Neutral (no reason)


Start Atribs:
STR 08
DEX 10
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 08
CHA 20 (all next points and possible itens here)


Skills:
Concentration MAX
UMD MAX
Tumble 1
the rest on Spot or Balance, dont know


Feats*:
Focus: Evocation
G. Focus: Evocation
Empower S.
Maximize S.
Heighten S.
2 othes betwen (Force of Personality, Extend, Enlarge, Quick S., Focus [other Scholl] and G. Focus [same other scholl]) <- help!!

*no Spell Penetration, I know, it is the main plan, use only spells that dont have Spell Resistence.


List of Main Spells (need advices for complete the list):
1) Niac's Cold Ray / Expeditius Retreat / Night Shild / Jump
2) Scorching Ray / Web / Electric Loop (only for daze efect on late game, cuz the focus on evocation)
3) Fireball / Frost Lance / Displacement
4) Wall of Fire / Stoneskin
5)
6) Chaing Lightning
7) Delayed Fire Ball
8) Polar Ray / Great Shout (for the stun efect)
9) Meteor Swarm / Mass Hold Monster / Wail of Banshee (not sure about this last one)

-> on this list, ofensive Evocation Spells without Spell Resistence:
Niac's / Scorshing Ray / Electric Loop / Fireball / Frost lance / Wall of Fire / Chaining Light / Delayed Fireball / Polar Ray / Great Shout / Meteor Swarm

-> ofensive Spells without Spell Resistence from anothers Scholl:
Web (conj) / Mass Hold Monster (ench) / Wail of Banshee (necro)

-> ofensive Spells with Spell Resistence from anothers Scholl:
Wail of Banshee (necro)


Enchantments:

Sorcerer Bloodline of Power
Sorcerer Improved Empowering III
Sorcerer Improved Maximizing III
Sorcerer Lineage of Energy III
Sorcerer Lineage of Elements III
Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Energy II
Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Elements III
Sorcerer Energy Manipulation IV
Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation IV
Sorcerer Charisma III
Sorcerer Subtle Spellcasting I or Sorceres Energy of the Drabonblod I (just to Progression Requeriments)

[QuintonReece]

First piece of advise, go Warforged.

Much more HP and immunities.

Very survivable and self healing.


You wont regret it.

[tinyelvis]

You truly learn to miss a DC build when you play a toon lacking in that area. Case in point, I play mostly a Drow or WF caster at ultimate level play. My WF suffers from a noticable inability to reliably land DC related spells compared to my Drow (however, there are other areas where he shines). I recently got around to TR'n my warforge sorc in an effort to address this deficiency. Even though I double focused, I was annoyed at low levels how poorly he performed in the spell DC area (lots of WF players resort to melee at low level to overcome this issue....I find this idea unapealing). Finally, at 6th level I respec'd to double evocation focus and use Frost lance and fireball now liberally.

As a drow with double evocation focus you will really dominate mid levels. However, you need to pay attention to the school of your spells. It does little good to focus in evocation if your main attack spells are not of that school. You will probably find your niacs a little lacking since you will be casting it like a spec'd WF. Your evocation focus acid spray will land well, however, this is a poor spell and most find they need to both maximize and empower it to get good effect. If you have the resources, double focus conjuration, then swap feats at 7th level when you take frost lance to evocation (also take acid blast and swap for fireball then).

I would suggest heighten before maximize or empower. Especially if you are serious about niac use. In general, when casting spells with saves, you do half to no damage when a mob saves. In these cases, max and empower points will be inefficiently used to say the least. Also, I would take maximize before empower. If you are reliably landing your spells, then two casts of a low level spell is cheaper than maximizing a poor DC spell and with potentially much more damage dished out.

Scorching ray is a great spell but it does poor damage until you hit 7th level. No need to take it until then. Web is a great spell, however, you can buff your charisma by 4 points with eagles splendor (that's a +2 to DC), improving your offensive capability. Scroll casting ES is also an option.

Finally, you are missing a good no save spell. Two good choices are magic missile and shocking grasp. They both have strengths and weaknesses. However, you will be more effective against some targets with one of these spells. Based on your enhancements, I would suggest scroll/potion/clicky casting jump or shield and taking one of these spells instead. Or, in your case, dump niacs and learn to use shocking grasp. Not doing this will make you impotent against foes like the end boss in Storm cleave.

Not taking spell penetration will make high level play more difficult. You are a Drow with max charisma and potentially a very high spell DC. At high level play, you will waste your potential and be less effective than you could be. You can get away with no spell pen feat, however, you need good equipment and enhancements to make up for it.

Consider ball lightning and cone of cold, you will probably have trouble with chain lightning.

[Carpone]

You truly learn to miss a DC build when you play a toon lacking in that area. Case in point, I play mostly a Drow or WF caster at ultimate level play. My WF suffers from a noticable inability to reliably land DC related spells compared to my Drow (however, there are other areas where he shines).

Agreed. My first character was a Warforged Sorcerer and I learned alot playing him. Now that I've got insight into the class, Human or Drow is a better end-game choice.

[MrStinky]

Just play what you want I have wizzies, and sorcs both drow and WF and i get more WOW NICE!! comments from groups with my drow then i do with a WF. Although I can solo much more with my WF.

I didnt know we were talking endgame but IMO Drow would be the better race to learn how to play as a caster.

I am a PRO WF but ive been playing for several years and by playing squishy casters I have learned alot more then playing WF (run in FW jump around repair yourself..repeat). again thats just my opinion so put your flamethrowers away. The OP just wanted opinions from experienced players so i gave my 2 sheckles.

[QuintonReece]

From a new players perspective I would think that they would enjoy the game more by being more survivable instead of being "that guy" dying all the time or being so squishy you're afraid to do the job.

The spells that need DC's to function are only a subsection of all spells. Even then my original argument that 2DC does not outweigh the WF benefits stands.

Who cares if your web or finger of death is ''slightly'' more effective if you keep dying.

How many times have you heard people saying they dont want to group with someone that they have to keep rezzing vs. someone that has an occasional save against their spell? How many people take notice on the occasional save that a mob makes against a spell? Sure they would if it was a lot, but at 2DC it is not "a lot." Everyone notices when a squishy character keeps dying. For a vetran that knows how to play a character well dying is not as much an issue, for a new player it's huge.

Even then, how many vets would prefer being able to solo more content than being tied to having a healer?

These are the reasons a WF is a better starting character and ending character. IMO!

[MrStinky]

While going WF is not bad advice I think Drow is your best choice for a first time caster build. The immunities are nice for WF but the -2 dc will hurt when casting CC and FOD or PK. I am not knocking WF sorcs because they are a lot of fun but it really depends on what you want to focus on.

If you just want to nuke stuff WF is the way to go and boost your con as high as possible. However playing both a WF and a Drow sorc The drow although a bit more squishy can can FOD or PK at will. I think that a drow sorc will be much more versitile and more fun if this is your first sorc so thats my recomendation, but either build requires as many HPs as you can muster so keep that in mind.

[gwlech]

I don't see toughness. That is a feat you should really take by level 6, unless you like having your brains on the end of an ogre's club.

[QuintonReece]

2DC on Warforged spells pales in comparison when presented with the immunities and the self heal ability. (Not to mention the better Con scores)

ESPECIALLY for a first caster, you need the survivability.

Check with some of the best casters(not necessarily the highest levels) on your server and see what they have chosen.

AND if you TR a couple times as a Wizard you'll make up for the 2 DC if you care to.

[MrStinky]

2DC on Warforged spells pales in comparison when presented with the immunities and the self heal ability. (Not to mention the better Con scores)

ESPECIALLY for a first caster, you need the survivability.

Check with some of the best casters(not necessarily the highest levels) on your server and see what they have chosen.

AND if you TR a couple times as a Wizard you'll make up for the 2 DC if you care to.

2 Dc is very important for a caster I said the drow would be a better firstime build because they would be successful using all spells and could get a good idea of how versitile a sorc can be.

Drow can survive just fine they just have to be played the way a caster should be played this will teach them to not run ahead and nuke everything ahead of the party like most WF builds do.

The Immunities are nice and i am not discounting them but casters are known for there casting ability not thier immunities.

[tinyelvis]

2DC on Warforged spells pales in comparison when presented with the immunities and the self heal ability. (Not to mention the better Con scores)

ESPECIALLY for a first caster, you need the survivability.

Check with some of the best casters(not necessarily the highest levels) on your server and see what they have chosen.

AND if you TR a couple times as a Wizard you'll make up for the 2 DC if you care to.

Some of your comments are nothing more than personal opinion (for example, if the option were available, I would trade 100 hps away for +2 to my DC), while other points are just not true. You cannot make up the DC difference no matter how many times you TR wizard. At best you can get +1 to DC and then only after spending a feat. No matter though, the OP doesn't have a 32 point build let alone multiple TR capability. Most people who poo poo the DC build don't play them and have little experience with the differences between WF and Drow. From your incorrect comments my guess is you fall into this catagory. My guess is that WF sorc builds have seen their high water mark and will die out to advance play style with WF wizard (all of the DC benifits of Drow plus the benifits of WF). The best WF arcane casters currently play wizards.

Most people who play first casters complain about their inability to land spells not their need for hit points (though they usually need these too). The OP has proposed a max con/chrs Drow build. Probably the best choice for a new player limited to 28 pt build.

[MarcusCleardawn]

I
List of Main Spells (need advices for complete the list):
1) Niac's Cold Ray / Expeditius Retreat / Night Shild / Jump
2) Scorching Ray / Web / Electric Loop (only for daze efect on late game, cuz the focus on evocation)
3) Fireball / Frost Lance / Displacement
4) Wall of Fire / Stoneskin
5)
6) Chaing Lightning
7) Delayed Fire Ball
8) Polar Ray / Great Shout (for the stun efect)
9) Meteor Swarm / Mass Hold Monster / Wail of Banshee (not sure about this last one)

->

On your spell list:
Level 1. Jump is great and quite handy throughout your life as a Sorc. Nightshield is quite handy for the magic missile immunity and the saving throw bonus, the AC bonus you get from Shield rapidly becomes personally irrelevant (that is to say it's essentially impossible to get meaningful AC, though with the upcoming changes this might no longer obtain).

Expeditious Retreat should be replaced, the movement effects are nice at low levels, but will be soon replaced by all the time Striding items. Niac's is great early, particularly as you're maxing DC's, it becomes much harder to land later unless you use heighten. I haven't played Sorcs yet, so I don't know if Niac's is necessary to make a cold or single target attack chain. If not I'd replace it with Ray of Enfeeblement.

Ultimately I'd replace Expeditious Retreat with Magic Missile, but if you are willing to spend the platinum, Burning Hands/Acid Spray make for nice AoE early.

Level 5. I'd suggest Cloudkill and Cone of Cold. Other spells that are useful, but more to taste include Teleport, Ball Lightning, Waves of Fatigue, Dismissal.

Level 6, Disintegrate, really a must have in my opinion both for single target damage and for highly resistant things like golems, Necro 4 super zombies, etc. Other spells that are useful Otilick's frozen sphere (decent damage, very long range for an aoe), Reconstruct (warforges will love you), Flesh to Stone.

Level 7. Finger of Death (you'll have the DC's for it, and is a staple of higher level play.) Other spells, Otto's Sphere of Dancing (aka Dancing Ball) or Symbol of Stunning (easier on the lag than Dancing Ball) both are nice persistent crowd control, though heightened Web is a sufficient alternative.

Level 9. Wail of Banshee is, in my opinion, the best lvl 9 spell for the "normal" game. Mass Hold Monster is awesome in the end game. Meteor Swarm is still a little glitchy in my experience, but still worthwhile.

However, my advice is from my experience as a wizard with fewer spell points, longer cool downs, slower casting etc. so take it with that in mind.

With a "nuker" focus, you'll generate a lot of aggro, without the ability to easily self heal (scrolls generally take time and a weapon switch), I would suggest that you have some form of crowd control to help you stay alive. In my experience, a Dancing Ball or Heightened Web does the trick quite well, giving you an area through which you can more safely retreat.