Monk change - Fists of LIGHT

[toughguyjoe]

Here's the thing peoples.

In the beginning, Light > Dark by a long shot.

Now, Dark > Light by a long shot.

Now its Lights turn to get a buff. I'm sure they are mulling it about and working on it. My spidey sense tingles whenever I think about how bad Light path is for monks.

I will also state this: The answer to the balance issues IS NOT to simply give light monks a 500 light damage attack or some such foolishness, its just lame.

Extend the buffs based on Monk level, add in a light finisher that converts the monks base damage to light damage for a set amount of time (10-30 seconds) and increases the amount of damage done at that time.

Something like that.

[Frelin]

Maybe light monks should be able to actually do light damage with fists of light...

Maybe then healing curse can make the target 10% more susceptible to light damage as well, after all...it is a curse...

Maybe light monks should actually get some useful enhancements/buffs that aren't replaced by pots at lvl 5 (lvl 4 for guild pots)...

Maybe then you'll actually see light monks being played, instead of 'all' being dark...


Light monk in general is broken, not just the PrE.

[Riggs]

I suggested a change some time ago that was buried (as usual) in threads going off topic. I believed the light and dark monk powers should have mimiced the arcane archer "on 20" effect, but with a different result.


Fists of Light
Healing Curse
On EVERY monk hit (not just when the strike is used) natural 20 casts cure light wounds mass.


Fists of Darkness
Same effect
On EVERY monk hit (not just when the strike is used) natural 20 hits for 500 damage.



This way light monks dps will not be interupted to throw out some minor healing, and will heal more often then before, being an interesting addition to their parties. In fact the further tiers of the light/dark enhancement lines can increase the healing/damage amounts (damage amount caps at 500, heals cap at cure serious mass).

I like the idea of a on 20 effect.

However the main point again is - why should a light monk care only about healing other party members?

Fighting evil = killing evil faster. Ask a paladin. yeah they can heal, AND do more damage to evil. Not one or the other. Who gives a flying fig about 10% healing or 10% debuffs etc.

Fists of light should do light damage, period. At higher levels, more damage, say 4 tiers of strikes - so tier 4 is like 5d6 at least. THAT would be a dps increase, and you can still have the healing curse - which maybe does more healing with each tier as well.

AND - on a 20 you get Sunburst. Aoe light damage. that would be a good use of a 'light monk'.

[RuneDude]

IMO the difference between Light and Dark should be more about the debuffs vs buffs. How about Light also getting a attack like Tod.

Touch of Light: same pre-reqs as Rise of the phoenix, but instead you get a attack that cost 50 ki and deals 250 save for half. Deals double to undead. None to constructs. Also you get the raise dead option with this as well (but on the same timer as the light attack).

Touch of Death: 500 damage save for half, half damage to undead. None to constructs. Your quivering palm costs only 15 ki.

Dark Path: Removing the curse type for the elemental debuffs, increasing its potency (20%?), and of course better dark finishers would help balance all that out, since light buffs are much more useful atm. De-buffs with components that work on red/purple names, minor penalties but stacking and high or no save, and more powerful effect for trash.

Dark still has more dps most of the time (sneak attack as well), but gives light monks something more to work with, especially since some of their abilities can be substituted with items and versus non tainted as well.

[Modinator0]

IMO the difference between Light and Dark should be more about the debuffs vs buffs. How about Light also getting a attack like Tod.

Touch of Light: same pre-reqs as Rise of the phoenix, but instead you get a attack that cost 50 ki and deals 250 save for half. Deals double to undead. None to constructs. Also you get the raise dead option with this as well (but on the same timer as the light attack).

Touch of Death: 500 damage save for half, half damage to undead. None to constructs. Your quivering palm costs only 15 ki.

Dark Path: Removing the curse type for the elemental debuffs, increasing its potency (20%?), and of course better dark finishers would help balance all that out, since light buffs are much more useful atm. De-buffs with components that work on red/purple names, minor penalties but stacking and high or no save, and more powerful effect for trash.

Dark still has more dps most of the time (sneak attack as well), but gives light monks something more to work with, especially since some of their abilities can be substituted with items and versus non tainted as well.

I wouldn't be against that, as long as the dark debuffs are made into something worthwhile and can work against devils and demons and bosses, since thats the majority of what we fight at end game. Heck, even add on that rise of the phoenix is an AOE rez and burns any undead caught in the effect with light and fire damage.

[Riggs]

IMO the difference between Light and Dark should be more about the debuffs vs buffs. How about Light also getting a attack like Tod.

Touch of Light: same pre-reqs as Rise of the phoenix, but instead you get a attack that cost 50 ki and deals 250 save for half. Deals double to undead. None to constructs. Also you get the raise dead option with this as well (but on the same timer as the light attack).

Touch of Death: 500 damage save for half, half damage to undead. None to constructs. Your quivering palm costs only 15 ki.

Dark Path: Removing the curse type for the elemental debuffs, increasing its potency (20%?), and of course better dark finishers would help balance all that out, since light buffs are much more useful atm. De-buffs with components that work on red/purple names, minor penalties but stacking and high or no save, and more powerful effect for trash.

Dark still has more dps most of the time (sneak attack as well), but gives light monks something more to work with, especially since some of their abilities can be substituted with items and versus non tainted as well.

Yeah, and considering the healing curse doesnt work on the tough raid bosses you actually would WANT them to work on....and the annoying grasp of the earth dragon does 0 damage on Horoth ticks me off to no end.

"Oh we want a light monk - but you have to spent most of the end fight using low damage ki strikes, and running back and forth hitting everyone with the anti-stun - blowing all your ki and NOT FIGHTING or doing damage".

Since I have a dex/wis monk, I dont have the con to max out earth strikes, and it wouldnt matter anyway. Using a low damage tier 1 strike, and then holding the finisher to run around to hit clerics with it say, then back and maybe do it again to hit the group - its f-ing lame.

Dark monks get to just hit things and do 1500 damage every few seconds, while a light monk is expected to run around buffing the party - and all that time is spent NOT spamming electric strikes - so not only do light monks NOT get a damage strike, they have to spend their time not using good ki strikes AND running around NOT hitting the boss.

Yeah thats balanced - and fun for light monks. Really. Cause I made up a monk so I could buff the party. Maybe Turbine mixed up monks and wizards and clerics.

Did I mention it is really lame as it is now? I forget.

[Mobeius]

Yeah, and considering the healing curse doesnt work on the tough raid bosses you actually would WANT them to work on....and the annoying grasp of the earth dragon does 0 damage on Horoth ticks me off to no end.

"Oh we want a light monk - but you have to spent most of the end fight using low damage ki strikes, and running back and forth hitting everyone with the anti-stun - blowing all your ki and NOT FIGHTING or doing damage".

Since I have a dex/wis monk, I dont have the con to max out earth strikes, and it wouldnt matter anyway. Using a low damage tier 1 strike, and then holding the finisher to run around to hit clerics with it say, then back and maybe do it again to hit the group - its f-ing lame.

Dark monks get to just hit things and do 1500 damage every few seconds, while a light monk is expected to run around buffing the party - and all that time is spent NOT spamming electric strikes - so not only do light monks NOT get a damage strike, they have to spend their time not using good ki strikes AND running around NOT hitting the boss.

Yeah thats balanced - and fun for light monks. Really. Cause I made up a monk so I could buff the party. Maybe Turbine mixed up monks and wizards and clerics.

Did I mention it is really lame as it is now? I forget.

FYI, for those that DONT know...and are light mnks...

You dont have to fire off the buff around yourself only, you CAN target other players and the buff will go off centered on them.

When I do ToD I will build my Ki, do the Earth Dragon combination, hit the appropiate F1 thru f12 keys to who needs to be targetted and then fire off the finishing move.

As such I usually tell casters to stick together that want the buff. I can usually keep 3 buffs going fairly regulary when at maximum fighting with both boss mobs down. Range is LOS AFAI can tell.

[KKDragonLord]

At one point I suggested that Rise of the Phoenix worked in the same way as Death Pact. You cast it and when you die it throws you a raise... with one catch. Before it casts a raise Dead it something akin to a Flame Strike spell doing like 500-1000 points of damage in an AoE a second before you are raised. Since you are dead you wouldn't draw Agro and since you have to die to ge the damage it isn't as useful for damaging foes as ToD.

So you get a big burst of flame and then you rise from the ashes


Of course I also think that the rest of the line leading upto that point needs to be redone as well

Light Monks keep getting things easily replaced by Potions Wands and Clickies

Aesop

That would be Awesome!

[Drfirewater79]

Dark path gets a 500 damage untyped finisher, void is going to get 'Erase'. What does light get? A little bit of undead damage, and cure light mass. How many undead are at high levels?

Healing on hits is nice...but doesnt keep up with high level damage by a long shot, and doesnt work on the bosses you actually would need it on.

So how about changing the damage from undead bane to actual light damage? Light hits undead too.

And multiple tiers would be nice too, a 'light monk' that gets a light ability at level 3...and then nothing else even to level 20....

1) TOD is not a finisher ... it requires a ton of AP and a ton of KI to use ... its not untyped anymore its neg energy now ... it has a fort save so its not a 500 point attack anymore its 250-500 + double strike

dark monks get no healing ability ... higher AP cost and almost no useful combos.

2) Light monks get ALOT with shintao ... alot more then darks get with ninja spy... on top of your light fist which does 1-4 points of healing per tick ... and a light finisher which can self heal for over 100 as a halfling and over 200 as a human if specd for it ... they also get an ability to add 10% physical damage to every target it hits for the entire party that on a failed save holds the target in an auto crit jade tomb... several buffs (which i personally think suck because of the duration 1 min is not enough for a lvl 20 character) .. they also get THREE additional holds ... the one i already mentioned Jade strike .... one ranged stun attack kuwan-do(bad spelling forget how its typed) ... and tomb of Jade ... all of which add auto crit making them a crowd control healing monk. and Dark monks are the dps monk ... which is subject to debate now that there are fort saves.

3) Dont forget light monks also get smite evil ... and on a crit you can break 200 points with that pretty easy ... and not to mention if you add triple earth stance combo and the 10% physical to a stunned mob .. you can do almost 500 points per tick two ticks in a row.

Only thing that light monks need fixed is double strike

and all monks need there DCs changed ... they need to ALL be 10+monk level+ wisdom + item modifier.... none of this crappy 1/2 monk level bs. They dropped dark monk dps so much vs raid bosses and all endgame mobs by half the least they could do is increase our stun chance vs end game mobs to increase our usefulness outside of raid while they figure out how to make ninja spy worth a ****.

[Drfirewater79]

At one point I suggested that Rise of the Phoenix worked in the same way as Death Pact. You cast it and when you die it throws you a raise... with one catch. Before it casts a raise Dead it something akin to a Flame Strike spell doing like 500-1000 points of damage in an AoE a second before you are raised. Since you are dead you wouldn't draw Agro and since you have to die to ge the damage it isn't as useful for damaging foes as ToD.

So you get a big burst of flame and then you rise from the ashes


Of course I also think that the rest of the line leading upto that point needs to be redone as well

Light Monks keep getting things easily replaced by Potions Wands and Clickies

Aesop

I see you played a fire blaster in COH didnt you ..

rise of the pheonix power there did a AOE flame strike when you used it to res self.
as a fire blaster i loved it .. go grab 100 mobs agro ....drop the nuke ... if what was left alive managed to kill me i res myself and take the rest of there life while doing it

at lvl 50 it made soloing end game in that game alot of fun.

[Drfirewater79]

FYI, for those that DONT know...and are light mnks...

You dont have to fire off the buff around yourself only, you CAN target other players and the buff will go off centered on them.

When I do ToD I will build my Ki, do the Earth Dragon combination, hit the appropiate F1 thru f12 keys to who needs to be targetted and then fire off the finishing move.

As such I usually tell casters to stick together that want the buff. I can usually keep 3 buffs going fairly regulary when at maximum fighting with both boss mobs down. Range is LOS AFAI can tell.

The reason so many dont know that is cause usually when casting the earth combo in ToD ... which is the only place it gets used .. you usually use the bosses for ki generation .. hit horoth do combo on tank ... hit horoth more do combo on casters ...

of course assuming everyone else is attacking sully in the corner not getting stunned at all ... and assuming you are not intentionally doing more damage then barbarian or fighter tanking (lol light monks doing more damage .. i kill me ... ) with the new update its likely light monks are even more useful in TOD .. earth grab and 10% physical damage amp vs horroth and then same on sully ... lasts for a full min like the combo so its gonna be easy to build the ki and get the combo off especially since the 10% damage amp counts as a light move anyway and light fist doesnt work on raid bosses.

[Darkrok]

FYI, for those that DONT know...and are light mnks...

You dont have to fire off the buff around yourself only, you CAN target other players and the buff will go off centered on them.

When I do ToD I will build my Ki, do the Earth Dragon combination, hit the appropiate F1 thru f12 keys to who needs to be targetted and then fire off the finishing move.

As such I usually tell casters to stick together that want the buff. I can usually keep 3 buffs going fairly regulary when at maximum fighting with both boss mobs down. Range is LOS AFAI can tell.

I tried this before and between the ridiculous finisher lag meaning you're rarely sure if the move actually went off and the tendency of the casters to completely ignore the part about 'stick together if you want the buff' while at the same time being more than willing to complain about that light monk that 'can't even get one buff on us' I've given up and just hand deliver it. Then when the casters won't stand beside each other I can center myself between them and try to hit everyone. It also lets me chase down both the Orthons and the wayward caster/kiters.

[Aesop]

I see you played a fire blaster in COH didnt you ..

rise of the pheonix power there did a AOE flame strike when you used it to res self.
as a fire blaster i loved it .. go grab 100 mobs agro ....drop the nuke ... if what was left alive managed to kill me i res myself and take the rest of there life while doing it

at lvl 50 it made soloing end game in that game alot of fun.

Actually I never got that far in CoH... I was more interested in making neat concepts and fun costumes... The idea presented was just because I thought it would be a fun concept

Aesop