Change to Renown Message

[sephiroth1084]

Since the devs have been paying attention and commenting here:
Any chance of allowing character labels in the guild tab similar to those we have in the friends tab?

It may not be an issue for very small guilds, but for larger ones, it can be incredibly difficult to recall who each person is (altitis), or who you loaned something to, or...

Seems like an easy enough thing to implement, given that you clearly have the tech to do so.

[MadFloyd]

Since the devs have been paying attention and commenting here:
Any chance of allowing character labels in the guild tab similar to those we have in the friends tab?

It may not be an issue for very small guilds, but for larger ones, it can be incredibly difficult to recall who each person is (altitis), or who you loaned something to, or...

Seems like an easy enough thing to implement, given that you clearly have the tech to do so.

You're preaching to the choir. Definitely on our to-do-list. I'd actually like to see 2 notes: 1) a note you make about yourself (all other guildies see it) 2) a note you make about others

[sephiroth1084]

You're preaching to the choir. Definitely on our to-do-list. I'd actually like to see 2 notes: 1) a note you make about yourself (all other guildies see it) 2) a note you make about others

Thanks for the quick response.

And, yeah, that would be awesome!

Sounds like it isn't coming any time soon, though. Would have figured that this guild-focused update would have been the perfect time for this to get some dev time slated.

[altagar]

I was trying out the new traps, when I noticed that how renown awarded is displayed has changed slightly.

(Guild): Your guild has earned 10 renown. (5 base + 5 small guild bonus!)

I'm not really sure what the small guild bonus is honestly. I wouldn't call DDO Daily a small guild, unless it's been going off the last week's login numbers.

Any chance we can make make the messaging more transparent?

Ideas:

1. Instead of "Your guild has earned 10 renown (regardless of who earned it), how about "XYZ has earned 10 renown for your guild."

2. Add a column (or 2) on the guild roster page. Renown earned in the past 24 hours, 7 days, whatever. Alternatively, this could be done on an account page if it makes sense.


This would let people recognize peers for their contributions to the guild.

Thoughts?

[MadFloyd]

Any chance we can make make the messaging more transparent?

Ideas:

1. Instead of "Your guild has earned 10 renown (regardless of who earned it), how about "XYZ has earned 10 renown for your guild."

2. Add a column (or 2) on the guild roster page. Renown earned in the past 24 hours, 7 days, whatever. Alternatively, this could be done on an account page if it makes sense.


This would let people recognize peers for their contributions to the guild.

Thoughts?

1. You're the only one that sees that message usually (except for monster kills), so the player name isn't that useful.

2. That was in our original design, but we decided that it might be used negatively.

[altagar]

1. You're the only one that sees that message usually (except for monster kills), so the player name isn't that useful.

So it shows in the guild text box, but only to the individual generating?

2. That was in our original design, but we decided that it might be used negatively.

That is an interesting perspective. Some guilds already try to maintain an active player base cleaning their roster periodically of inactive players and characters. Given the new systems seems to create desirable thresholds in player size, it would seem more guilds may pay attention to this. However, you aren't giving guild leaders/officers any tools to understand the behavior of their members other than the last logged in information.

[Deathseeker]

2. That was in our original design, but we decided that it might be used negatively.

At first I was going to question this, but after thinking about it a bit I think you may have made the right choice here, even though it would be quite handy.

Having a metric visible that attempts to quantify a players overall activity could turn into something that gets used for more than just happily knowing who's generating renown.

I could see it become a measure of someone's guild worth, then creating a ton of drama. I could see the numbers being posted on the forums as evidence of someone's activity, or lack thereof. While that may not be a good or reasonable use of the metric, doesn't mean it won't get used that way. Additionally, it would lead people to argue over the metric, why it's not fair, why it's not calculated appropriately, etc, etc.

Ultimately I can imagine the "I was kicked from my guild due to this unfair metric" posts, and the drama would go on.

I'd certainly like to see what account a toon is tied to...that would just make for clean guild management and information. I'd be nervous to see an overall metric that might end up creating a bunch of drama and noise and be used beyond what it's intent is. It might become the defacto "measure of overall activity" of a player and not just a measure of what renown they've generated.

I generally like to see the dev's provide the information and players sort out how it's used, but not sure this one would turn out so great.

[etla]

You're preaching to the choir. Definitely on our to-do-list. I'd actually like to see 2 notes: 1) a note you make about yourself (all other guildies see it) 2) a note you make about others

Oh god yes this would be awesome. We're currently tracking this out of band and distributing updates is a pain.

[sephiroth1084]

That is an interesting perspective. Some guilds already try to maintain an active player base cleaning their roster periodically of inactive players and characters. Given the new systems seems to create desirable thresholds in player size, it would seem more guilds may pay attention to this. However, you aren't giving guild leaders/officers any tools to understand the behavior of their members other than the last logged in information.

Which seems like a reasonable call.

Some players in guilds like to raid, and some like to run quests, and some like to do explorers, or loot runs, or just sit around chatting with fellow guildmates, or... That behavior shouldn't be a factor in whether or not someone is permitted to remain in a guild. Not unless the guild is supposed to be exclusively set-up for a particular type of player, and in that case, there are other ways to determine whether someone fits that criteria or not.

[Sarr]

You're preaching to the choir. Definitely on our to-do-list. I'd actually like to see 2 notes: 1) a note you make about yourself (all other guildies see it) 2) a note you make about others

Great to hear it .

1. You're the only one that sees that message usually (except for monster kills), so the player name isn't that useful.

2. That was in our original design, but we decided that it might be used negatively.

100% agreed. Just think what happens when guild leader goes on vacation, he returns and he's the last on renown list. And guildies are sometimes like kobolds. Period.

[Zenako]

100% agreed. Just think what happens when guild leader goes on vacation, he returns and he's the last on renown list. And guildies are sometimes like kobolds. Period.

Thats what laptops and wireless internet is for....

You mean the Kobolds in Invaders...jumping ship at the first sign of a wee bit of troubles...

or the Kobolds in Assault who just keep coming and coming and coming....relentless in there pursuit of body bags!

[Sarr]

Thats what laptops and wireless internet is for....

You mean the Kobolds in Invaders...jumping ship at the first sign of a wee bit of troubles...

or the Kobolds in Assault who just keep coming and coming and coming....relentless in there pursuit of body bags!

Darrrn, don't even mention laptops and all other wireless damnations, you evil one . That would be kinda resting... in pieces .

[Angelus_dead]

2. That was in our original design, but we decided that it might be used negatively.

Yes, listing renown per-person could have negative uses. But instead you could list only the person with the top renown in the past 24 hours. That would not only be fun for the guild, but also helpful to detect bugs when the earned renown is inconsistent with what you think you earned.

[Angelus_dead]

You're preaching to the choir. Definitely on our to-do-list. I'd actually like to see 2 notes: 1) a note you make about yourself (all other guildies see it) 2) a note you make about others

That raises the question of why a character's bio entry can't be seen unless you go to the same instance and target him.

[Aschbart]

(Edit: It would be nice if we could sort the guild list by accounts, or something like that.)

I second this suggestion! Maybe another column on the guild screen for account name? That would be incredibly helpful!

[Edit]Just spotted Madfloyd's response to this suggestion - yes, a personal comment would indeed be a nice alternative. Not sure how useful a personal note about other's would be though. This could have some use for people on my friendlist but outside the guild![/edit]

[sirironheart]

At first I was going to question this, but after thinking about it a bit I think you may have made the right choice here, even though it would be quite handy.

Having a metric visible that attempts to quantify a players overall activity could turn into something that gets used for more than just happily knowing who's generating renown.

I could see it become a measure of someone's guild worth, then creating a ton of drama. I could see the numbers being posted on the forums as evidence of someone's activity, or lack thereof. While that may not be a good or reasonable use of the metric, doesn't mean it won't get used that way. Additionally, it would lead people to argue over the metric, why it's not fair, why it's not calculated appropriately, etc, etc.

Ultimately I can imagine the "I was kicked from my guild due to this unfair metric" posts, and the drama would go on.

I'd certainly like to see what account a toon is tied to...that would just make for clean guild management and information. I'd be nervous to see an overall metric that might end up creating a bunch of drama and noise and be used beyond what it's intent is. It might become the defacto "measure of overall activity" of a player and not just a measure of what renown they've generated.

I generally like to see the dev's provide the information and players sort out how it's used, but not sure this one would turn out so great.

I have been gaming a long time. I have been in guilds and have run my own guilds as well as second in command of guilds. WOW - Guidwars - Eternal Lands - Unreal -Bounty bay Online - Quake these are just a few. In the guilds we are friends. If a guild you are in, is this pety and selfish...then it's not a guild I want to be in or run. In my guild we are friends first. Nothing alse matters as long as you are liked, appreciated, respected and a friend. So how should I put this...your in the wrong guild if you got to worry about being kicked...mistreated or doing chores. So knowing how much renown a guildie is putting in is a positive thing...it would be like...man, can I join you so I can get some numbers up? It's a guildie friend kinda thing. Thanks for reading

[MrkGrismer]

I second this suggestion! Maybe another column on the guild screen for account name? That would be incredibly helpful!

[Edit]Just spotted Madfloyd's response to this suggestion - yes, a personal comment would indeed be a nice alternative. Not sure how useful a personal note about other's would be though. This could have some use for people on my friendlist but outside the guild![/edit]

I'm not 100%, but I get the impression that the "comments about others" are comments that only the commenting player would be able to see. Kind of a 'note to self'.

[Coldin]

So, when I started Lamannia today, I noticed there was another update pushed out.

I was hoping the patch would help the low level amount of renown I've been seeing from the Vale, but I actually noticed something else.

The few renown I did get no longer had a Small Guild bonus. Now, I know our guild didn't get bigger in the last day, and was only at about 7 accounts.

So, is this a bug, or is the small guild bonus gone?

Edit: The DDO Daily is also no longer receiving the small guild bonus.