So, this pale master thing..

[MrWizard]

thinking of bringing my old wizard out of retirement.

Have not played a caster in a while.

this 'negative energy spells' thing...which spells does this actually work with?

Seems like that is all it really does, make a good crit and damage modifier...but what spells?

[timewalker]

Currently, Chill touch.......end of list.

in this update they are adding 4 or 5 more, some are actually good, but most are VERY sub par unfortuanlty....hoping they fix that

[MrWizard]

sounds like a no-brainer, not gonna even touch the whole thing..go enchanter like I used too...spell pen, high dc, insta kill, aoe, control, death death death...

[oweieie]

sounds like a no-brainer, not gonna even touch the whole thing..go enchanter like I used too...spell pen, high dc, insta kill, aoe, control, death death death...

Currently Pale Masters ARE the highest DCs.

[ddoer]

Currently Pale Masters ARE the highest DCs.

only avg/max dmg that count. from what i read and tested, those neg dmg spell can't match fire/cold spells in dmg.

[oweieie]

only avg/max dmg that count. from what i read and tested, those neg dmg spell can't match fire/cold spells in dmg.

Huh? I don't even understand that. Shroud of the Lich gives +2 INT, which raises your spell DCs by 1.

[daniel7]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=252219

[voodoogroves]

Pale Masters require (a) SF and GSF Necromancy which helps Finger of Death and Wail of the Banshee, two very nice spells to use for their save-or-die goodness and (b) fire/cold spec which obviously helps the other stuff. In addition, lich form gives INT and DC boost as well to Necromancy spells (and requires ... Toughness).

The entry requirements are useful even if you never step into lich or wraith form. It is comically easy to enter, but the specific PRC benefits are somewhat lacking.

I have 2 ... one is a warforged (who never, ever goes into lich or wraith form unless I'm screwing around) and one human. The human I've just started and is level 5. Will have room for all the core metamagics, toughness, mental toughness and SF / GSF in BOTH necromancy and enchantment (enchantment front-ended).

[Jaddynn]

Huh? I don't even understand that. Shroud of the Lich gives +2 INT, which raises your spell DCs by 1.

and you think that outweighs the incredible dmg of fire/cold dmg spells how? Seriously a single application of +1 doesnt mean squat in comparrison to an extra 100-200 dmg from a buffed up firewall or cold spell... the DC vriances arent that noticeable as you go up in levels... typically there are 5-7 point jumps in the normal mob resistances if you look at the charts. So boosting by 1 is almost pointless... boosting by 3-4 however, if you can get it, IS.

[oweieie]

and you think that outweighs the incredible dmg of fire/cold dmg spells how?

Uh. I said Pale Master has 1 higher DC. Thats all I said. Your whole post is a great big what the **** are you talking about. And nothing stops you speccing fire/cold and taking pale master as well, so your post is an even bigger what the **** are you talking about.

[Lord_Lambent]

and you think that outweighs the incredible dmg of fire/cold dmg spells how? Seriously a single application of +1 doesnt mean squat in comparrison to an extra 100-200 dmg from a buffed up firewall or cold spell... the DC vriances arent that noticeable as you go up in levels... typically there are 5-7 point jumps in the normal mob resistances if you look at the charts. So boosting by 1 is almost pointless... boosting by 3-4 however, if you can get it, IS.

Pale Master pets will, from what I've seen, require fire/cold enhancement line.

So what's your complaint, exactly?

EDIT: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=252219 <-- source of my info, and an excellent compilation of the changes coming for Pale Master. Long story short, it will be a viable PrE to take, once the bugs are ironed out.

[Archmage49]

Pale Masters are more then just a negative spell enhancement. Where to start? Summoning undead pets, which are, IMO, better then any summon monster spell until perhaps summon 5 for an elemental, and come lvl 12, you get Blackbone skels, and lvl 18 Frostmarrow Skels. So that saves you a slot if you don't want to summon anything else. The Necrotic Touch you get at lvl 6 can be a life saver if a monster gets on top of you, which happens rather often, and it only costs you a paltry 1 SP to use. You get extra HP each level of enhancement, and why WOULDN'T you take the prestige? Honestly, except for SF Necro, it seems like the basic requirements for the prestige are what you'd probably take anyway, mental toughness, Wizard Int, etc. Only toughness isn't something you might normally take, but is required for Lich Form.

I've wondered if one interesting, and potentially brutal method of really turning a Pale Master into a death machine would be to multi-class a wizard with a cleric. Clerics DO get LOTS of negative attacks, and right from the start, just basic inflict spells. My Pale Master is currently lvl 8, debating if after lvl 9 to switch and go cleric for 11 lvls.

[richieelias27]

If you did that you would get: A crappier cleric with lower HP. Your Arcane spells with a DC will be unusable. Your Cleric offensive spells with a DC will also be unusable (Everything will save vs your inflict spells). Your +XX% enhancement lines will be severely lacking. Your cleric offensive spell DC's will be based on WIS not INT, arcane will be vise-versa, you will need to max both.

In short: Unless you're doing some fun theme based role-playing build, you are likely to be sorely dissapointed in its performance.

[Gol]

Let's review the listed "benefits" of Pale Master

Undead Forms - While in undead form, you get a net +2 DC to your Necromantic Spells (Finger, Wail) but can't be healed at all (no, not even with repair on a WF) except by some really piddly new arcane spells. Net gain: major fail, approaching epic fail. If you are a Warforged and accustomed to self-repairing, this is flatly Epic Fail.

Undead Summons - You can summon some undead guys to fight for you. Like all other summons in the game, they suck, but you can burn even more feat slots to make them suck less. You can, at least, heal them with your new AoE neg energy spells, though. Net gain: fail.

Necromantic Touch - Close-ranged negative energy attack, unaffected by metamagics, that usually puts you in melee range. Net gain: nothing, but not a fail since it's free.

Given that all this costs 4+ feats and 20-something action points for (at best) "nothing" in the gain category, the only realistic conclusion is indeed Epic Fail.

This is strictly my opinion and does not represent the view of anybody else. Yes, I have (and play) a Wizard. No, he is not nor will he become after update 5, a Fail Master.

[ArdanosMerrow]

Let's review the listed "benefits" of Pale Master

*SNIP*

This is strictly my opinion and does not represent the view of anybody else. Yes, I have (and play) a Wizard. No, he is not nor will he become after update 5, a Fail Master.

Gol is basically right, PM doesn't offer anything useful except a +1dc boost every 3mins out of 5 at the cost of no self healing (although, update 5 should fix the healing problem somewhat.)

While most of the Prereqs are useful (SF: necro,GSF: necro and toughness) the AP cost required is staggering. As Daehawk showed in PM thread, a fully specced PM locks in 49 or your total 80AP.

IMO, PM after update 5 is still broken.

[bradleyforrest]

Gol is basically right, PM doesn't offer anything useful except a +1dc boost every 3mins out of 5 at the cost of no self healing (although, update 5 should fix the healing problem somewhat.)

While most of the Prereqs are useful (SF: necro,GSF: necro and toughness) the AP cost required is staggering. As Daehawk showed in PM thread, a fully specced PM locks in 49 or your total 80AP.

IMO, PM after update 5 is still broken.

I wouldn't say that the AP cost is staggering. Don't bother with the summons nor Wraith. PM I, II, III, and Lich form add up to 10 AP. Those are the useful enhancements for this PrE and the cost isn't bad at all.