To good to nerf green steal.

[osirisisis]

Woah woah woah, stop right there...

WoP was bunk. People were breaking out 8 str 40 dex rangers with a couple of toothpicks that were killing things faster than 56 str barbarians swinging Chevy S-10s by their front bumpers. This was somehow fair? LOL.

I think a better analogy was 40 dex rangers with a couple Lamborghinies, that cost a 100 times more and were a 100 times more rare then your Chevy S-10, and were driveing them alot faster on the SIDE STREETS............. seeing how red and purple names were immuned to w/p and when it came to the free way (Red and purple names) your cheap chevy S-10 or 56 str. barb was looking pretty good.

It is not 95% less viable. It is 5% less viable, if that. The nerf means that mobs now live one second longer than they did previous to the nerf.

With this above statment I would guess you dont own any w/p rapiers and you have not done any before and after nerf tests.. I do and have and what you have said above is the far from the truth.

If it takes you such a long time to kill a mob with zero con that is in auto crit mode, and this results in WoP not being viable for you, its your build that needs major adjustment, and not the weapons you are using.

It's not time its swing per kill ratio.........my builds are fine and if you want to scream "bunk" then stop screaming and earn your due and buy Lamborghini.

[Eladiun]

God what would I do with out all these highly intelligent and logical responses to my posts.

You want an intelligent answer. It never made sense to me that the ML on GS was 12 when you can't even get in the Vale till 14. This obviously didn't matter before TR though. However, changing it would solve what issue exactly? Overpowered TR's grinding the same content for the 300th time? Not really something than needs fixing...

[osirisisis]

Becasue it was logical to buy up all the w/p on firesale at the auction house after the nerf was announced because you thought you could personally convince them not to do it?

Let the record show that I owned 3 w/p rapiers that I worked very hard for over a 2 year period pre nerf announcement and bought 3 more on the fire sale for 4.5 mil plat.

Let the record show that I was a very unhappy customer when 18 mil in account value was lost due to a very poor choice was made by turbine to nerf my and others gear because of 30% viablity on trash mobs.

Let the record show that I did buy up 3 w/p rapiers on the fire sale at a time when my 5 main toons had the best of the best all ready except the 3 rapiers and in speculation of risk of turbine changing there mind and biasly posted on the fourms lobbying to fight the nerf on what I think today is still a very solid position.

So yes fluffy guilty as charged.

They will make great trophy's in my air ship.........seeing how decoration is about all there good for.

[osirisisis]

This would be a great picture for how I feel about turbine choice to move away from random loot system, commerce system with trade list on market place forums, random loot lottery excitement system and into a binded them into the game with a bind and grind, magic bloat mindless droning so that all can be a clone gear wised system that we are in now.

[oberon131313]

God what would I do with out all these highly intelligent and logical responses to my posts.

I would love to respond intelligently and logically to your post, but I just for the life of me can't understand what you are trying to say.

Maybe I'm just tired...

[osirisisis]

Raising the min lvl of greensteel would change nothing at all except for TR's. Non TRs will almost certainly hit lvl 20 before they make their first tier 3 greensteel item. Few (if any) are even flagged for the shroud before your suggested min lvl 16, and fewer still get into shroud groups before lvl 16.

TRing is already quite long and annoying. Don't make it worse. Greensteel at lvl 11/12 is about all that makes it palatable.

I agree that putting more pressure on TR's would be a poor choose by turbine but think the core of that issue can truely be solved by bring TR experience cost to 1.9 million where it should be and not this 3.9 million bloat.

For a new player I would logically see it easier to make it to level 20 and buy a TR heart before they spent the time running the shroud 30 times or 85 days on average to aquire 6 large scales to get 1 proper DPS teir 3 let alone 2 for TWF. Which translates into how many new players will have to deal with the 3.9 exp bloat with out the luxury of a Teir 3 as they TR.

As for "Raising the min lvl of greensteel would change nothing at all except for TR's."
I would disagree.
A 12 to 16 move would:

1. Open up some random loot value and random loot excitment factor for gear in the range of 11-15.

2. Bring viability to some of the Necro tome page turn gear which right now is way over shadowed by green steal, would also add with a green steel min lvl nerf a lift should be give to necro gear by lower min lvl to 12.

3. Set green steal up for another nerf when the level cap goes to 24 to a min level of 18 which still would not put it into balance with its random loot table counter parts but would be a move in the right direction.

[Burtle]

This would be a great picture for how I feel about turbine choice to move away from random loot system, commerce system with trade list on market place forums, random loot lottery excitement system and into a binded them into the game with a bind and grind, magic bloat mindless droning so that all can be a clone gear wised system that we are in now.

actually I was referring to you outlandish idea to "nerf" GREENSTEEL..but hey... whatever

[osirisisis]

actually I was referring to you outlandish idea to "nerf" GREENSTEEL..but hey... whatever

I'm sure almost everyone got that the first time you posted it Dark.

[RobbinB]

Just to make it clear, Turbine's error with the WoP nerf was not that they nerfed it in the first place (many forumites pointed out that the weapon was perhaps grossly overpowered), but that they in fact double-nerfed it making it useless. They combined the basic nerf to the con 0 = dead with gross changes to mobs endgame making stat damage far less effective. In conjunction the 2 changes are simply too much.

The double-nerf to WoP is unacceptable as it is disrespectful to vets who have played or made trades based on the relative worth of that weapon. At the end of the day, nerf is ok, but the weapon should still have a "relative" AH worth of somewhere in the same ballpark as it had previously, not go from top of the list to mid at best.

This is Turbines problem in general. They have no idea of what balanced is or how to obtain it. They introduce **** loot items across the board (both epic and regular content), and after logical and reasonable arguments are made as to why these items suck, there response has generally been to not change them but instead to put out a few uber items like bloodstone, epic SoS, etc..which is insanity.

Finally in Mod 5 they've shown some understanding that balance among all items is important and are making adjustments. This is the one bright spot. Now if only they could apply similar logic to other areas, like PrE's, mob immunities, etc...

[osirisisis]

Just to make it clear, Turbine's error with the WoP nerf was not that they nerfed it in the first place (many forumites pointed out that the weapon was perhaps grossly overpowered), but that they in fact double-nerfed it making it useless. They combined the basic nerf to the con 0 = dead with gross changes to mobs endgame making stat damage far less effective. In conjunction the 2 changes are simply too much.

The double-nerf to WoP is unacceptable as it is disrespectful to vets who have played or made trades based on the relative worth of that weapon. At the end of the day, nerf is ok, but the weapon should still have a "relative" AH worth of somewhere in the same ballpark as it had previously, not go from top of the list to mid at best.

This is Turbines problem in general. They have no idea of what balanced is or how to obtain it. They introduce **** loot items across the board (both epic and regular content), and after logical and reasonable arguments are made as to why these items suck, there response has generally been to not change them but instead to put out a few uber items like bloodstone, epic SoS, etc..which is insanity.

Finally in Mod 5 they've shown some understanding that balance among all items is important and are making adjustments. This is the one bright spot. Now if only they could apply similar logic to other areas, like PrE's, mob immunities, etc...

And how can a muti million dollar corporation possible think that disrespecting its players (vet and foundational players at that) could possibly be good for long term growth and revenue.

I think the biggest problem at turbine is that they have alot of professionals but no true expert advisory. A dev at turbine works there job and heads home to there life maybe if we are lucky and actually plays the game 4 hours a week. When what turbine should do is pay players ..... expert players that actually play the game 40 hours a week for a there advise................... uhmmm and I quote reference this

[tfangel]

Let the record show that I was a very unhappy customer when 18 mil in account value was lost due to a very poor choice was made by turbine to nerf my and others gear because of 30% viablity on trash mobs.

You gambled, you lost, end of story. You decided a faddish and overpowered weapon was worth more one day and wanted to make money, next day they weren't, oops. Must be Turbine's fault.

Do i think GS is a mistake? Yep, along with all the other overpowered stuff, but not much they can do now that it's out of the bag.

[Visty]

the change in minlvl will do nothing

only TRs will be affected as noone will have a tier3 greensteel befor lvl16 anyway

[bandyman1]

O,

They're not going to change W/P back. It's just not going to happen.

Give it up already man, just give it up.

And before you throw the comment; Yes. I had 4 rapiers, several s swords, couple of daggers, and 3 bows.

Give it a rest dude.

[osirisisis]

You gambled, you lost, end of story. You decided a faddish and overpowered weapon was worth more one day and wanted to make money, next day they weren't, oops. Must be Turbine's fault.

Do i think GS is a mistake? Yep, along with all the other overpowered stuff, but not much they can do now that it's out of the bag.

Your assumption is wrong.

It wasn't a gamble I need 3 more since I have 3 TWF toons. If I wanted to gamble on them I would have any where from 10 to 16 of them by now since they have been sitting on the Aution house steedy for the last 3 months since I've been back at around 1.2 mil plat. Even if they were un nerfed tomorrow I'd use my 6 and have no desire to sell them in that I already have allmost anything plat can buy in the game and for me "taking out the trash" mobs 30% more effectively is worth 6 mil plat.

And it is turbine fault for dramatically degrading the viability of everyone w/p gear that had it and worked hard for it, in that a nerf should bring something closer to balance and not completely make it obsolete.

By the way your statement above is not only incorrect but self contrary in that wounding of puncturing was clearly out of the bag and it was nerfed hence Green Steal could easily be nerfed also.

[Spisey]

I just wish the icy games had been around when you were buying w/p. The additional 18 million plat I could have extorted from you would have kept up supplies for several months!

[osirisisis]

the change in minlvl will do nothing

only TRs will be affected as noone will have a tier3 greensteel befor lvl16 anyway

Visty try reading the whole thread before u comment with blanket statements reference #27 5 or 6 posts above.

[osirisisis]

O,

They're not going to change W/P back. It's just not going to happen.

Give it up already man, just give it up.

And before you throw the comment; Yes. I had 4 rapiers, several s swords, couple of daggers, and 3 bows.

Give it a rest dude.

Your not the boss of me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sephiroth1084]

The problems with greensteel weapons have nothing to do with their ML; most characters don't acquire a GS item/weapon until they are level 15 or higher, and new players likely don't until they are close to, or at, 20. The only people who benefit from the current ML are TR'ed vets and vets with a lot of excess ingredients twinking out a new character. That isn't really a problem.

The problem is that GS are just so much better than 95% of the stuff we find in random loot.

The problem is that GS weapons are throwing out many more things to calculate than other weapons, and contributing to lag.

The devs are avoiding nerfing these since they represent quite a lot of effort and planning (not that building a character, say around TWF, didn't, but...people feel strongly about their loot).


WoP needed to be nerfed for completely different reasons: basically, WoPs completely changed the way every character played, and had essentially everyone ignoring most of their class abilities and focus in order to get better as using WoPs, including making all of the DPS options classes have largely insignificant when compared to attack speed increases, because WoP was just so much better than things like sneak attack, rage, smite, etc...


If you're going to ***** about something, at least figure out this **** works, and the reasoning behind it.

[gott_ist_tot]

Hm... Right now, WoP is a sometimes useful tool. Like, for example my rogue friend who solo-es running with devils a bit easier with WoP-ers. Back then, it was overkill. Current WoP is a stunner build - go ahead, try it if you want autocrits. Hell, even WoP still gives you autocrit for time long enough to kill the mob.

P.S. Okay, I *am* foreign, but this is the first time my knowledge of English language has been put to a real test. Which I borderline failed.

[epochofcrepuscule]

1. Really, again? Give it up, W/P is dead, move on.

2. The reason is because the developers are obviously casual players and could never loot W/P.


Theres your answer.