To good to nerf green steal.

[osirisisis]

So who is the Jerk who neg repped me for something I said in here? Own up so I can give you neg rep too, just to show you how much it means to me LOL. My guess is it is the guy who posted after my last post.....

Rep system is stupid. It certainly makes some people afraid to speak thier mind. Rest assured it wont affect me in any way. LOL.

Or for me for that matter... there are plenty of people on the forums that come here purely to get attention by simple being as contrary as they can in a aggressive or passive aggressive manner by simply commenting with things like broken record, beating a dead horse, just denying or posting the contrary to what others have said purely against the data and experience that shows other wise. Like little children but instead of crying they stir up trouble to get attention.... negative attention... Then there or those that will use these techniques or just blatantly slander over players when they posted Ideas that are contrary to there invested entrust in the game in a attempt to defer them from representing a voice of public opinion in fear the devs my listen and change the game.

But I'm sure the devs see right through this childish and immature behavior.

[osirisisis]

Just a question of curiosity, has there ever been a situation where an old already obtained item had its minimum level increased to every incarnation of the item? I know there have been situations where newly obtained versions might have a different minimum level (Star of Irian, Greensteel Weaponry, etc.), but has there ever been an instance where all incarnations were changed in minimum level?

The reason I ask this question is because unless an item's change is on the base properties, such as material type/durability/critical profile/base damage/clickable effect, I don't believe they have ever altered old item properties (which is why to get newer forms we often use the Stone of Change). Things like an item's minimum level or the fact that it has the Holy property are likely bound to the item ID and not the base item.

Regardless of the desire (or lack of desire) to change Greensteel weapons it might be more demanding or prone to error or issue than meets the eye.

For starters mad cow.... Outstanding job on Diaries of a True Reincarnate which can be found here. Your passion for the game and your excellent work show that your opinion should hold some of the highest priority in the community.

For the na sayers on this thread I suggest you to take note because this guy know how to hold a real position.

I concur with this response in that i have never in the history of the game seen Turbine go into the data base and change all of one weapon types min level requirement. There has all ways been a grand fathering in type effect.

But that doesn't mean it can't happen, or that a system should not be put in place to facilitate this context. The information is on the servers, the data is there, it can be isolated, segregated and altered.

As for resource efficiency and utilization of the Design and programing... I think that in time Turbine will realize that the direction of energy toward creating a way to facilitate this context, and other highly valuable context, has high viability do to the TRUE long term value in how balance plays a role in over all game integrate and enjoy entertainment factor, which is a strategy to build long term success. Instead of using energy and resources directed at "how can we make contexts they cant achieve in the game so we get them to pull out there ceidt card for short term gain (Like Airships).

If turbine doesn't realize this I fear that we will continue to see a revolving door effect with population in and out until the game dies. If they do relieaze the power of TRUE GAME INTEGRITY AN OPTIMUM ENTERTAIN MEET FACTOR. then DDO will raise it probability to become the leader in online population.

[BlackSteel]

purely against the data and experience that shows other wise. [/COLOR]

what data and experience? b/c so far its just been a bunch of hot air

But I'm sure the devs see right through this childish and immature behavior.

you mean behavior like posting the same thread repeatedly now, with similar occurrences last year as well? altho I dont know if i'd call it childish, maybe more like persistent telemarketer or a pesky itch

[Hokiewa]

Yawn...obviously still not over it.....

/proceed

[osirisisis]

he Might As Well Be Arguing A Case To Nerf Raise The Ml Of All Raid Loot.

Oh Noez, The Ml Of The Sos Is To Low, Or The Dragon Belt Has Str 6, When Random Loot At That Level Is Commonly Str 4 (or Rr 5)

dragon Touch Is Next For Sure. I Say That Tier 1 And Tier 2 Be Combined Into One Tier And All The Effects Tier 1 And 2 Combined As Option For Tier One. Then All Flag Quests Poduces Tier One Runes. On The Same Note I Would Add And Optional In The Stealer Of Souls Quest At The End That Would Give You 2 Different Runes If Completed Like In Armrath Flag End Fights Do With Chests To Balance That Gross Grind .

Because Unbound Loot Weapons Imbalance Vs Bound Is Really Bad Right Now
But Unbound Loot Armor Vs Bound Right Now Is Really Really Really Bad............. I Can't Think Any Piece Of Armor Min Lvl 14 Unbound And Up That Has Any End Game Viability Vs Bound Loot Right Now. Can Anyone Else?

It Was Common When The Cap Was 16 To Drag A Lvl 12 Thru The Shroud For Shards. The Exception Being That The Lvl 12 Would Be A New Vet's Character And It Would Likely Be A Guild Run. But With The Long Exp Grind In Tr's, And The Raising Of The Cap, I Think Most People Hold Off For Awhile Now. New Characters Are Not Going To Have He Opportunity To Craft Until 16+

Also He's Completely Ignored The Fact That Particular Greater Banes Can Both Give You A Higher To Hit And Base Damage And Extra Damage Dice Than Greensteel.

This Is A Lie... I Mentioned Many Times In This Thread That Certain Greater Banes That Have A Min Lvl Of 18 To 20 In Certain Slight Contexts Put Out More Dps Then Gs. Which Hold Very Little Weight Because A +5 Silver Holy Of Greater Evil Outsider Bane Is So Rare That There Is Probeblly More Then A 100 Gs Dps Made For Every 1 Of These That Is Generated By The Random Loot Table, Also This Weapon Is Completely Useless Vs More Then 95% Of The Mobs When Gs Dps Is Useful Vs 99% Of The Mobs In The Game.



But He Insists On Comparing It To Ml 12 Loot, Which Is Silly B/c 1) Unless You're A Tr, You're Not Getting Gs At Lvl 11/12, And 2) Its Freaking Raid Loot, And The Ml And Power Level Of The Item Is Supposed To Be Lower/higher Compared To Random Loot.

Lower Higher Make Up Your Mind........i Sure What Your Trying To Say Here Is Higher But In Truth Its Not Always Supposed To Be Higher Its Supposed To Be More Viable 50% Of The Time And Un Bound Loot Be More Viable 50% Of The Time So End Game Gear Setups Have A Balance Of Unbound Loot And Bound Loot.

If Raid Loot Played By The Item Generation Rules And Also Had Appropriate Min Levels Then The Gear Wouldnt Be Nearly As Good.

88

[BlackSteel]

88

end game set ups are supposed to have 50% unbound/bound loot? you see thats just pure opinion right there. my opinion is that the goal should be 100% raid loot (bound obviously, but note that I'm clarifying raid loot and not just rare BtA named items from some easy to farm explorer chest)

You bring up time lines about when the devs started screwing the pooch with loot. But as Emili pointed out, the named item drive for players existed way before this. I think as early as mod 4 the only non named items (random loot gen) items my characters were wearing was a con 6 ring and resist cloaks. This 'problem' of yours has existed since the games release, named items are what drive people to farm loot; and yes I remember the ol +loot/exp weekends of mod 4 past. But what quest did people hit up the most? PoP. Not only b/c it was easy with a bunch of chests, but also b/c it could drop named loot at the same time.

I see absolutely zero reason why random loot gen items should come close to raid loot. And yes shroud greensteel is raid loot. But the funny thing is, as others have pointed out, easier to acquire weapons can be gotten off the AH that are only slightly behind greensteel. Just a very small difference in damage between a Min 2 on pit fiends and a +5 holy silver, or transmuting of pure good, as the acid damage is bunk. And only demons really require a combination DR otherwise, thus as has been pointed out as well, greater banes do equivalent or better damage than most greensteel, and its not hard to pick up a nice greater bane when you're not searching for silver + holy. Giants, Gnolls, goblinoid, elemental, practically everything but construct and evil outsider are easy on the purse just to purchase off the AH. And all give comparable DPS or better depending on the prefix.

Complaining that most named non raid loot has been BtA or BtC lately is a legitimate argument. As having a trade currency besides scales and epic scrolls would be nice. But a proxy buff to random loot via a nerf to raid loot isnt going to make random loot any more valuable or desirable. The loot generator simply is not capable of producing anything that even compares to raid loot (not just greensteel). Why would someone want a random loot gen +5 str belt when they could have a raid belt with +6 str AND heavy fort or Str 6 AND greater false life. Why bother with random gen 30% striding boots (whose best suffix possible is some trivial +skill) when you could be wearing Madstone, for 5% less run speed you get +4 str and +8 con. Why would someone want a +5 holy greataxe at lvl ten when you could be running around with a sword of shadows.

Ironically, even with all the ingredient grinding to get even one nice all purpose weapon from the shroud, people still craft multiple types of greensteel. For being such a great utility weapon, and freeing up bag space, most people try to have multiple types to edge out a few more damage versus different foes. Min 2 for bosses, lit 2 for trash, triple water for fire eles, triple fire or radiance for others, steam for 100% fort lit immune. All for a slight DPS advantage, which in turn is only a slight advantage over random gen loot.

[osirisisis]

end Game Set Ups Are Supposed To Have 50% Unbound/bound Loot? You See Thats Just Pure Opinion Right There. My Opinion Is That The Goal Should Be 100% Raid Loot (bound Obviously, But Note That I'm Clarifying Raid Loot And Not Just Rare Bta Named Items From Some Easy To Farm Explorer Chest)

the Difference Is Your Opinion Leads To Mindless Droning Of Grind For What Binds And Player Leaving Do To Being Bored From Droneing The Same Thing Over And Over And Over And Over And Over And Over Again
And My Opinion Leads To Players Hungering To Get Off Ransack, Excitement With A True Lotto Type Feel, Variety, With Angles Of Commerce, Appraisal, And Trade That Used To Be A Great Parts Of This Game But Are Now Almost Dead.

If You Want 100% Binded Loot Then Why Dont You Go Play W.o.w ... O Wait Turbines All Ready Almost Turn The Game Into W.o.w. So You Dont Have To Just The Way You Like It.

If Your Opinion Is So Good For The Game Then Why Did We See From Mod 6 To 9 When The Game When Shroud Magic Bloat, To Dragon Touch Magic Bloat, To Subterrane The Biggest Drop In Ddo Population History, A Drop That Almost Lead The Game To Extinction, Where They Had To Give It Away For Free To Save It?

And Don't Say Content Because The Content That Was Added From Mod 1 To 4 Was About The Same As Amount Of Content Added From 6 To 9, And During Mods 1 To 4 We Saw Steady Strong Growth In Population In A 50% Bound 50% Unbound Context.

So Now What? Just Ask Any Player Whos Been Here From Mod 1-9 (which Is Hard To Do Because Most Of Them Left Mod 6 Or 7) "whats The Difference Between Bond Grind And Random Loot Unbound Runs, And 9 Out Of 10 Will Say That They Are Not The Same Thing Nor Do They Have The Same Feel.



You Bring Up Time Lines About When The Devs Started Screwing The Pooch With Loot. But As Emili Pointed Out, The Named Item Drive For Players Existed Way Before This. I Think As Early As Mod 4 The Only Non Named Items (random Loot Gen) Items My Characters Were Wearing Was A Con 6 Ring And Resist Cloaks. This 'problem' Of Yours Has Existed Since The Games Release, Named Items Are What Drive People To Farm Loot; And Yes I Remember The Ol +loot/exp Weekends Of Mod 4 Past. But What Quest Did People Hit Up The Most? Pop. Not Only B/c It Was Easy With A Bunch Of Chests, But Also B/c It Could Drop Named Loot At The Same Time.

You Can Call Loot What Ever You Want. But The Truth Is Are To Types There Is Bound Loot And There Is Unbound Loot And Right Now If You Look End Game Toons .....theres A Lot Of Bound Loot And A Little Unbound Loot If Any.

I See Absolutely Zero Reason Why Random Loot Gen Items Should Come Close To Raid Loot.

i See No Real Reason Why I Even Responding To You In This Tread

And Yes Shroud Greensteel Is Raid Loot. But The Funny Thing Is, As Others Have Pointed Out, Easier To Acquire Weapons Can Be Gotten Off The Ah That Are Only Slightly Behind Greensteel.

If You Lack The Ability To Use A Dps Calculator Or If Your Brain Interpreters 2.5 Times Stronger Dps Viability With +4 Ac, Greater Burst, And Clickies On Top As "slightly Behind" Then I Really Dont Know What To Tell You.

Just A Very Small Difference In Damage Between A Min 2 On Pit Fiends And A +5 Holy Silver, Or Transmuting Of Pure Good, As The Acid Damage Is Bunk. And Only Demons Really Require A Combination Dr Otherwise, Thus As Has Been Pointed Out As Well, Greater Banes Do Equivalent Or Better Damage Than Most Greensteel, And Its Not Hard To Pick Up A Nice Greater Bane When You're Not Searching For Silver + Holy. Giants, Gnolls, Goblinoid, Elemental, Practically Everything But Construct And Evil Outsider Are Easy On The Purse Just To Purchase Off The Ah. And All Give Comparable Dps Or Better Depending On The Prefix.

you Really Need Some Help If Your Think Min Lvl 18 Greater Bane Weapons Make The Green Steel Massive Imbalance..........balanced.

Complaining That Most Named Non Raid Loot Has Been Bta Or Btc Lately Is A Legitimate Argument. As Having A Trade Currency Besides Scales And Epic Scrolls Would Be Nice. But A Proxy Buff To Random Loot Via A Nerf To Raid Loot Isnt Going To Make Random Loot Any More Valuable Or Desirable. The Loot Generator Simply Is Not Capable Of Producing Anything That Even Compares To Raid Loot (not Just Greensteel).

the Random Loot Table Did Just Fine Producing, Before W/p Was Nerfed And Massive Magic Bloated Green Steel And Dragon Touch Was Introduced.

Why Would Someone Want A Random Loot Gen +5 Str Belt When They Could Have A Raid Belt With +6 Str And Heavy Fort Or Str 6 And Greater False Life. Why Bother With Random Gen 30% Striding Boots (whose Best Suffix Possible Is Some Trivial +skill) When You Could Be Wearing Madstone, For 5% Less Run Speed You Get +4 Str And +8 Con. Why Would Someone Want A +5 Holy Greataxe At Lvl Ten When You Could Be Running Around With A Sword Of Shadows.

thats My Point Why Would Anyone Want Any Thing But Massive Magic Bloat, Which Is Why We See Players Today With Mostly Massive Magic Bloat Or In The Process Of Drone Grinding For It.

Ironically, Even With All The Ingredient Grinding To Get Even One Nice All Purpose Weapon From The Shroud, People Still Craft Multiple Types Of Greensteel. For Being Such A Great Utility Weapon, And Freeing Up Bag Space, Most People Try To Have Multiple Types To Edge Out A Few More Damage Versus Different Foes. Min 2 For Bosses, Lit 2 For Trash, Triple Water For Fire Eles, Triple Fire Or Radiance For Others, Steam For 100% Fort Lit Immune. All For A Slight Dps Advantage, Which In Turn Is Only A Slight Advantage Over Random Gen Loot.

88

[sephiroth1084]

[quote=osirisisis;3041290] Originally Posted by blacksteel
end Game Set Ups Are Supposed To Have 50% Unbound/bound Loot? You See Thats Just Pure Opinion Right There. My Opinion Is That The Goal Should Be 100% Raid Loot (bound Obviously, But Note That I'm Clarifying Raid Loot And Not Just Rare Bta Named Items From Some Easy To Farm Explorer Chest)

the Difference Is Your Opinion Leads To Mindless Droning Of Grind For What Binds And Player Leaving Do To Being Bored From Droneing The Same Thing Over And Over And Over And Over And Over And Over Again
And My Opinion Leads To Players Hungering To Get Off Ransack, Excitement With A True Lotto Type Feel, Variety, With Angles Of Commerce, Appraisal, And Trade That Used To Be A Great Parts Of This Game But Are Now Almost Dead.

No one ransacks chests in the hope of pulling some noteworthy piece of random loot. No one runs quests over and over again to see if they can get a better weapon than what they currently have. If people are doing that, they're pretty stupid--with the number of possibilities that the random generation tables can toss out there, it would be a tremendous waste of time to go hunting for anything in particular. People farm chests of random loot, not for the lottery feel, which many people clearly dislike (go read all the posts *****ing about Reaver's Refuge crafting), but because they can sell all of that **** and eventually make enough money to BUY something useful on the AH.

If Your Opinion Is So Good For The Game Then Why Did We See From Mod 6 To 9 When The Game When Shroud Magic Bloat, To Dragon Touch Magic Bloat, To Subterrane The Biggest Drop In Ddo Population History, A Drop That Almost Lead The Game To Extinction, Where They Had To Give It Away For Free To Save It?

And Don't Say Content Because The Content That Was Added From Mod 1 To 4 Was About The Same As Amount Of Content Added From 6 To 9, And During Mods 1 To 4 We Saw Steady Strong Growth In Population In A 50% Bound 50% Unbound Context.

It WAS a matter of content! It was because in that 7-9 range (Mod 6 was CLEARLY a huge win for Turbine), we got the Reaver's Refuge, which has a really awful loot mechanic, one quest that has a stupidly difficult ending, another quest that feels repetitive and another that requires constant reflagging, two fairly short high-level raids with small loot tables, and Amrath, which tends to be more difficult than some people care for, and which makes playing a caster fairly dull since so few spells work out there on anything but a totally pimped-out caster.

And they DIDN'T give the game away for free...they are simply selling it at a different cost, which apparently has resulted in HUGE profits.

So Now What? Just Ask Any Player Whos Been Here From Mod 1-9 (which Is Hard To Do Because Most Of Them Left Mod 6 Or 7) "whats The Difference Between Bond Grind And Random Loot Unbound Runs, And 9 Out Of 10 Will Say That They Are Not The Same Thing Nor Do They Have The Same Feel.

I'm constantly amazed at how you can sound dumber with each successive statement. Of COURSE they aren't the same thing! When you are hunting for named loot, there is expectation there...hope, disappointment, whereas when you are simply gold farming, you're not really expecting anything. Compare Desert loot runs and Vale loot runs: on the former, you're hoping for a Bloodstone, Spellstoring Ring or Firestorm Greaves, and everything else is incidental. If you pull something good, then whoopie! but that isn't the goal. In the Vale, you're simply out there to make 50,000gp per run, to accrue wealth, which in turn will be used to purchase stuff you want, whether we're talking unbound named items (something we need more of, not less, as per Blacksteel's point about currencies), mana pots, or...whatever.

You Bring Up Time Lines About When The Devs Started Screwing The Pooch With Loot. But As Emili Pointed Out, The Named Item Drive For Players Existed Way Before This. I Think As Early As Mod 4 The Only Non Named Items (random Loot Gen) Items My Characters Were Wearing Was A Con 6 Ring And Resist Cloaks. This 'problem' Of Yours Has Existed Since The Games Release, Named Items Are What Drive People To Farm Loot; And Yes I Remember The Ol +loot/exp Weekends Of Mod 4 Past. But What Quest Did People Hit Up The Most? Pop. Not Only B/c It Was Easy With A Bunch Of Chests, But Also B/c It Could Drop Named Loot At The Same Time.


I See Absolutely Zero Reason Why Random Loot Gen Items Should Come Close To Raid Loot.

[quote]
i See No Real Reason Why I Even Responding To You In This Tread[quote]
You know,I'm wondering the same thing...I think I'm done after this post. Black, you should probably do the same.

And Yes Shroud Greensteel Is Raid Loot. But The Funny Thing Is, As Others Have Pointed Out, Easier To Acquire Weapons Can Be Gotten Off The Ah That Are Only Slightly Behind Greensteel.

If You Lack The Ability To Use A Dps Calculator Or If Your Brain Interpreters 2.5 Times Stronger Dps Viability With +4 Ac, Greater Burst, And Clickies On Top As "slightly Behind" Then I Really Dont Know What To Tell You.

The difference between a very good randomly generated weapon and a greensteel tends to be ~10 damage/hit depending on the situation...vs. devils, good random loot can actually be better, as the acid damage doesn't factor in, the Holy isn't bursting, no Pure Good is being added...or Greater Bane...

Yes, the +4 AC is significant, for a VERY small number of people, and can be somewhat approximated (Levik's set, DT armor, new Greater Parrying).

Just A Very Small Difference In Damage Between A Min 2 On Pit Fiends And A +5 Holy Silver, Or Transmuting Of Pure Good, As The Acid Damage Is Bunk. And Only Demons Really Require A Combination Dr Otherwise, Thus As Has Been Pointed Out As Well, Greater Banes Do Equivalent Or Better Damage Than Most Greensteel, And Its Not Hard To Pick Up A Nice Greater Bane When You're Not Searching For Silver + Holy. Giants, Gnolls, Goblinoid, Elemental, Practically Everything But Construct And Evil Outsider Are Easy On The Purse Just To Purchase Off The Ah. And All Give Comparable Dps Or Better Depending On The Prefix.

you Really Need Some Help If Your Think Min Lvl 18 Greater Bane Weapons Make The Green Steel Massive Imbalance..........balanced.

+5 1d10 +2d6 (Mineral II) vs. +5 1d8 +2d6 + Holy Burst (+4d6 or 6d6), possibly even with another 3d6+4 (+5 Holy Burst Silver, or +5 Holy Silver of GEOB, or +5 Holy Burst Silver of GEOB), or +1d6 (or +5 Holy Silver of Pure Good)...gee, which of those is better? And you can't both argue that Shroud weapons make random loot suck because Shroud items are better than even the best random loot AND argue that good random loot basically is too rare to count on. If it is too rare to count on, then the Shroud loot is basically allowing CASUAL gamers to get weapons on par with the hardcore who can afford to spend 5 million gold on something like the above on the AH.

Oh, and +5 Holy Burst of GEOB, even without Holy, is basically equal to a Mineral II on normal (slightly better?) since 9+ 4.5 + (3.5*2) + (3.5*3) + [0.2*(3.5*4)] -10 (23.8) > 5 + 5.5 + (2*3.5) (17.5). There, a +5 Holy Burst of GEOB that DOESN'T bypass pitfiend DR is BETTER DPS on normal than a MINERAL II! And by quite a bit. Lightning II ends up pulling ahead a tiny bit, I think. And, while those are hard to find, the difference is 6 points, which means that a +1 Holy Burst of GEOB is basically EQUAL, and those are NOT all that hard to find!

As for me, my barbarian uses a +5 Holy Burst Silver Greatsword of Shattermantle, and will continue to do so vs. pit fiends and horned devils for a long time, because the difference in damage between that and a Mineral II is negligible. Oh, and guess where that came from? Shroud end reward, ML 14 or 16.

Complaining That Most Named Non Raid Loot Has Been Bta Or Btc Lately Is A Legitimate Argument. As Having A Trade Currency Besides Scales And Epic Scrolls Would Be Nice. But A Proxy Buff To Random Loot Via A Nerf To Raid Loot Isnt Going To Make Random Loot Any More Valuable Or Desirable. The Loot Generator Simply Is Not Capable Of Producing Anything That Even Compares To Raid Loot (not Just Greensteel).

the Random Loot Table Did Just Fine Producing, Before W/p Was Nerfed And Massive Magic Bloated Green Steel And Dragon Touch Was Introduced.

Enough with the *****ing and crying about WoP! WoP was BROKEN! VERY BROKEN! It needed to be nerfed. The devs could have done so in several ways, and chose what I think is a pretty crappy one, but it NEEDED to be nerfed. When a weapon is so overpowered that it becomes the single best weapon vs. anything it works against, AND skews the game in such a way as to make most characters' class abilities irrelevant, it needs changing. And when WoP was the king, class abilities WERE irrelevant...sneak attack, rage, smite, Weapon Specialization, FE, bard songs...these features were basically reduced to being weighed on whether they made WoP better or not. Barbarians were running around with dual rapiers instead of big 2-handers ONLY because of WoP! Everyone was splashing Tempest 6 JUST to make better use of WoP.

And, WoPs were so rare, and so expensive, that casual player, and even moderately dedicated players were unable to obtain a decent weapon, and if you didn't have a WoP, you might as well not have been participating at all if 2 or more other characters were using them, simply because your DPS didn't matter.

That is the DEFINITION of broken. If you want to ****ing cry about your precious WoPs getting nerfed, go do it without mucking up the forums with that drivel!
[quote]

Troll feed in blue and red.

[osirisisis]

[QUOTE=sephiroth1084;3041733][quote=osirisisis;3041290] Originally Posted by blacksteel
[I]end Game Set Ups Are Supposed To Have 50% Unbound/bound Loot? You See Thats Just Pure Opinion Right There. My Opinion Is That The Goal Should Be 100% Raid Loot (bound Obviously, But Note That I'm Clarifying Raid Loot And Not Just Rare Bta Named Items From Some Easy To Farm Explorer Chest)

[COLOR=lime]the Difference Is Your Opinion Leads To Mindless Droning Of Grind For What Binds And Player Leaving Do To Being Bored From Droneing The Same Thing Over And Over And Over And Over And Over And Over Again
And My Opinion Leads To Players Hungering To Get Off Ransack, Excitement With A True Lotto Type Feel, Variety, With Angles Of Commerce, Appraisal, And Trade That Used To Be A Great Parts Of This Game But Are Now Almost Dead.

[COLOR=Cyan]No one ransacks chests in the hope of pulling some noteworthy piece of random loot.

They used to before you got here and before turbine decided to turn the game into W.O.W. with binded loots major massive imbalance end game and a mindless droning of binded grind for a cloning feel.

No one runs quests over and over again to see if they can get a better weapon than what they currently have.

this statement is purely idiotic. Thats like saying that w/p nerf didn't effect it in any way and it just as viable post nerf.... and i post about it just for my health.

If people are doing that, they're pretty stupid--with the number of possibilities that the random generation tables can toss out there, it would be a tremendous waste of time to go hunting for anything in particular.

Well that and that the chance of viability pulled from random unbound loot runs in so imbalance that there nothing much there to really much there to motive them.

People farm chests of random loot, not for the lottery feel, which many people clearly dislike (go read all the posts *****ing about Reaver's Refuge crafting), but because they can sell all of that **** and eventually make enough money to BUY something useful on the AH.

If you are implying that random unbound loot runs is the same thing as Reaver magic bloat imbalanced crafting system......... then your gravely mistaking but you wouldn't know what a random unbound loot run was you got here in 08 when turbine decided to clone W.O.W. at its core by mindless grind for bind shroud magic bloat.

[COLOR=Cyan]It WAS a matter of content! It was because in that 7-9 range (Mod 6 was CLEARLY a huge win for Turbine), we got the Reaver's Refuge, which has a really awful loot mechanic, one quest that has a stupidly difficult ending, another quest that feels repetitive and another that requires constant reflagging, two fairly short high-level raids with small loot tables, and Amrath, which tends to be more difficult than some people care for, and which makes playing a caster fairly dull since so few spells work out there on anything but a totally pimped-out caster.

Once again how would you know you weren't here so you have no contrast. A typical nieve statement. Let the record show there was about the same amount of content released and mods 1-4 content was perfect ether. But yet 1-4 grew population and 6-9 destroyed it.

And they DIDN'T give the game away for free...they are simply selling it at a different cost, which apparently has resulted in HUGE profits.

Your right in that they gave part of the game away as a free sample,,,,...but
I'm not here to down F2P .....It was one of the greatest moves turbine ever did with this game.

I'm constantly amazed at how you can sound dumber with each successive statement.

That's funny I was thinking the exzack same thing about you.

Of COURSE they aren't the same thing! When you are hunting for named loot, there is expectation there...hope, disappointment, whereas when you are simply gold farming, you're not really expecting anything. Compare Desert loot runs and Vale loot runs: on the former, you're hoping for a Bloodstone, Spellstoring Ring or Firestorm Greaves, and everything else is incidental. If you pull something good, then whoopie! but that isn't the goal. In the Vale, you're simply out there to make 50,000gp per run, to accrue wealth, which in turn will be used to purchase stuff you want, whether we're talking unbound named items (something we need more of, not less, as per Blacksteel's point about currencies), mana pots, or...whatever.

Once again there are to types of loot in this game bound and unbound. Now if you want to go further to subcategorize then there is unbound random loot and unbound name loot and bound name loot and bound raid loot.


[quote]
i See No Real Reason Why I Even Responding To You In This Tread[quote]
[COLOR=Cyan]You know,I'm wondering the same thing...I think I'm done after this post. Black, you should probably do the same.

I sure not going to miss 2 opinions that on the average miss represent the facts more so then they don't, in my thread.

The difference between a very good randomly generated weapon and a greensteel tends to be ~10 damage/hit depending on the situation...vs. devils, good random loot can actually be better, as the acid damage doesn't factor in, the Holy isn't bursting, no Pure Good is being added...or Greater Bane...

Reference my comment 2 inchs above. Where do you come up with this stuff ... How about you get and DPS calulator and run lvl green vs other lvl 12 loot so you have a constant variable.

Yes, the +4 AC is significant, for a VERY small number of people, and can be somewhat approximated (Levik's set, DT armor, new Greater Parrying).


Don't fail to leave out +2 except. stat.

+5 1d10 +2d6 (Mineral II) vs. +5 1d8 +2d6 + Holy Burst (+4d6 or 6d6), possibly even with another 3d6+4 (+5 Holy Burst Silver, or +5 Holy Silver of GEOB, or +5 Holy Burst Silver of GEOB), or +1d6 (or +5 Holy Silver of Pure Good)...gee, which of those is better? And you can't both argue that Shroud weapons make random loot suck because Shroud items are better than even the best random loot AND argue that good random loot basically is too rare to count on. If it is too rare to count on, then the Shroud loot is basically allowing CASUAL gamers to get weapons on par with the hardcore who can afford to spend 5 million gold on something like the above on the AH.

Your argument is like saying that staying under water for 1 sec is identical to staying under water for 2 mins because in both cases you get to come up for air.

Oh, and +5 Holy Burst of GEOB, even without Holy, is basically equal to a Mineral II on normal (slightly better?) since 9+ 4.5 + (3.5*2) + (3.5*3) + [0.2*(3.5*4)] -10 (23.8) > 5 + 5.5 + (2*3.5) (17.5). There, a +5 Holy Burst of GEOB that DOESN'T bypass pitfiend DR is BETTER DPS on normal than a MINERAL II! And by quite a bit. Lightning II ends up pulling ahead a tiny bit, I think. And, while those are hard to find, the difference is 6 points, which means that a +1 Holy Burst of GEOB is basically EQUAL, and those are NOT all that hard to find!

Rerferance the last comment i made 2 in. above....... this one exception to the rule do by no means dictate GS random loot balance.

As for me, my barbarian uses a +5 Holy Burst Silver Greatsword of Shattermantle, and will continue to do so vs. pit fiends and horned devils for a long time, because the difference in damage between that and a Mineral II is negligible. Oh, and guess where that came from? Shroud end reward, ML 14 or 16.


The min lvl on that weapon is 18 unless it rr, GS is 12, and your weapon does less damage to the pit fiend then a mineral 2 Great Sword min 18. And with that in mind, I ask my self why am I not surprised.

Enough with the *****ing and crying about WoP! WoP was BROKEN! VERY BROKEN! It needed to be nerfed. The devs could have done so in several ways, and chose what I think is a pretty crappy one, but it NEEDED to be nerfed. When a weapon is so overpowered that it becomes the single best weapon vs. anything it works against, AND skews the game in such a way as to make most characters' class abilities irrelevant, it needs changing. And when WoP was the king, class abilities WERE irrelevant...sneak attack, rage, smite, Weapon Specialization, FE, bard songs...these features were basically reduced to being weighed on whether they made WoP better or not. Barbarians were running around with dual rapiers instead of big 2-handers ONLY because of WoP! Everyone was splashing Tempest 6 JUST to make better use of WoP.

W/P nerf W/P nerf W/P nerf................Hey would you like some W/P nerf dialog..........How about a little W/P nerf dialog.............
You Crying over me complaining about a very noted land mark in the games history is quit childish ........ You should stop now.

And, WoPs were so rare, and so expensive, that casual player, and even moderately dedicated players were unable to obtain a decent weapon, and if you didn't have a WoP, you might as well not have been participating at all if 2 or more other characters were using them, simply because your DPS didn't matter.

That is the DEFINITION of broken. If you want to ****ing cry about your precious WoPs getting nerfed, go do it without mucking up the forums with that drivel!



I'll express my opinion on these fourms the way I feel and if you dont want to hear my option then leave the thread.....It would raise thread quality if you did.

Troll feed in blue and red.

88

[FluffyCalico]

When was this sacking of chests for random loot you speak of? I have been here since day one and I remember sacking chests for +2 tomes and named items. The only random loot people cared about was a vorpal and it didn't come from chests at that time... it came from South thernal end rewards list.

[osirisisis]

When was this sacking of chests for random loot you speak of? I have been here since day one and I remember sacking chests for +2 tomes and named items. The only random loot people cared about was a vorpal and it didn't come from chests at that time... it came from South thernal end rewards list.

HaHa yes yes fluff one of the very few people who are still here...who been here longer the I have and has played most of that time.....there not many of us to be honest with you........ Are you telling me that you never click on a CO6 or gaints cave random loot run???? In the hopes to maybe pull some random piece of loot like say OH ..I just pull one off the top of my head here. +5 mith full plate that you could add to one of your toons or your trade list.....come on fluff tell the truth.

The truth is from 6 months into open day to right before mod 6 release, players loved to spend time loot running to ran sake a variety of quest and enjoyed it alot for the most part.....nothing like the bind and grind fest we have now..........Gaints caves, CO6 thernal, Wiz King, POP, and trial by fire were all some of the local favorites over the years...

[FluffyCalico]

HaHa yes yes fluff one of the very few people who are still here...who been here longer the I have and has played most of that time.....there not many of us to be honest with you........ Are you telling me that you never click on a CO6 or gaints cave random loot run????

Yes I did C06 5-6, Thernal south, and giant cave... for the +2 tomes and POP x and thernal south end rewards which included some pet items that you could summon all at one, vorpal, and retribution. Again the only unnamed item I was really hunting for was vorpal and summon monster items and they were end rewards from south not drops. I think that first month I had about 20 +2 tomes I ran those so much and traded off maybe 10 POP X. But no I was not looking for random unnamed loot out of the chests unless you call POP X a random unnamed or a tome a random unnamed. With a stack of POP X and +1 and +2 tomes I was able to trade for anything I wanted short of a vorpal as vorpals only traded for other vorpals. I rememeber my first vorpal RR WF grrr had to find a WF with a elf RR one to trade took like 2 weeks to make the trade lol

I miss the days of tempest spine when your group summoned a pet army that was about 100 strong :P Those were the days.

Even back then the Static end rewards and simi static endrewards trumped almost all random chest loot. +5 mithril plate is about the only exception. Now granted back then the end rewards weren't all named items but they were still from static to simi static end rewards not chest drops. Later when power 5 started ruleing people wanted them but they were better to hunt on the AH then in random chests. There was a brief time when power 5 ruled. But even then I didn't farm for those items I just traded for them.

[osirisisis]

Yes I did C06 5-6, Thernal south, and giant cave... for the +2 tomes and POP x and thernal south end rewards which included some pet items that you could summon all at one, vorpal, and retribution. Again the only unnamed item I was really hunting for was vorpal and summon monster items and they were end rewards from south not drops. I think that first month I had about 20 +2 tomes I ran those so much and traded off maybe 10 POP X. But no I was not looking for random unnamed loot out of the chests unless you call POP X a random unnamed or a tome a random unnamed. With a stack of POP X and +1 and +2 tomes I was able to trade for anything I wanted short of a vorpal as vorpals only traded for other vorpals. I rememeber my first vorpal RR WF grrr had to find a WF with a elf RR one to trade took like 2 weeks to make the trade lol

I miss the days of tempest spine when your group summoned a pet army that was about 100 strong :P Those were the days.

Even back then the Static end rewards and simi static endrewards trumped almost all random chest loot. +5 mithril plate is about the only exception. Now granted back then the end rewards weren't all named items but they were still from static to simi static end rewards not chest drops. Later when power 5 started ruleing people wanted them but they were better to hunt on the AH then in random chests. There was a brief time when power 5 ruled. But even then I didn't farm for those items I just traded for them.

Ya fluff it seems that you were defiantly in at the right time.
I think the story goes something like this:
In the very beginning the random loot table was so strong end game that players like fluff here were able stock pile a massive amount of loot bank account value (20 +2 tomes in a month). I would guess about 6 months later when I got here was the time that they nerf the random loot tables. When I got here south theranal end rewards were all static I think, so what happened I believe is the first real loot run was theranal south, then it went static and gaints caves and CO6 became the new loot run with nerfed tables. Please someone correct me on that if I wrong I wasn't here so dont know. Players like fluff here didn't need to loot run after cashing in early because having the trading power of 20 +2 tomes plus other gear had them set for a year or more. In the CO6 giants days, when I ran pulling a +1 tomes was a big deal and a +2 which was extremely rare got you alot of tradeing power, So I could see where 20 of them would have carriered you for a while. In the time where power 5's ruled the day in mod 2 to 3 I found loot running them and hunting for them on the AH as both viable avenues of obtaining them. Looks like I got here about 6 months to late fluff when a +4 acid long sword was a "gratz" pull and +5 full plate was a "gratz gratz" pull.