Cleric or Favored Soul

[satanofmetal]

Well, like everyone knows, fvs and clerics each one got their own advantages.
I got both, one WF FvS lv 20, going for the third TR, and one Drow Cleric lv 20, just waiting for update 8 to go for third tr as well. both epic and end games focus and fully geared.

Since both of them got pretty much every raid gear they need, didnt notice any clear difference on lvs 11-20 while lvling during TR's. At early lvls (before BB), it was better with the fvs cause of the melee ability. But comparing end game only, each one got their flavor

Fvs its always the last one to die during a raid. More hp, better saves, and a great melee ability when geared. Dumped SP and Cha totally, and i still got 2750 sp with him. Having 627 hp and DR 15, all saves 35 to 44: hes a highlander. he wont die (of course, im supposing that im not drunk or high )

The Cleric compared to the fvs its a bit squishy, 420 hp. with 42 wis and mental toughness, hitting 2200 sp. so around -500 sp compared to my fvs. but -> 25 aura burst. so that 500 sp loss doesnt matter with healing ability. Fvs and Clerics when build, played, and geared right way, are both amazing healers. the clerics DC's are great - although u wont see me BB on epics. maybe a cometfall to help the CC, but not much other then that. With the new Helf dillated enchaments lines, my cleric saves will be just as high(or better) as my fvs. so that doesnt matter much.

The only major difference i see beteween my toons are the fvs wings (i just love that ****), DR and melee ability (regarding melee, yes you can creat a battlecleric, but imo fvs melee >>> any battlecleric build - tryed most of them.) One more thing: imo , full clerics and fvs are better then any splash builds. Why? Ive never been in a spot that evasion is a must. AC its broken at end game, you dont need it at all. and both builds can reach amazing saves. you can live just fine without monk lvls or ac - i prefer more sp, spells and cap in both cases. but again, thats MY opinion,builded up in 2 years of playing and trying lot of fvs and cleric builds.

Regarding Spell slots and choice - actually, thats hardly a problem. unlikely arcane spells, you will use the same spells the entire game. beeing able to change spells at my will its only a must when im having fun at pvp. other then that. my spell list its pretty much the same, for both toons.

[joneb1999]

Well, like everyone knows, fvs and clerics each one got their own advantages.
I got both, one WF FvS lv 20, going for the third TR, and one Drow Cleric lv 20, just waiting for update 8 to go for third tr as well. both epic and end games focus and fully geared.

Since both of them got pretty much every raid gear they need, didnt notice any clear difference on lvs 11-20 while lvling during TR's. At early lvls (before BB), it was better with the fvs cause of the melee ability. But comparing end game only, each one got their flavor

Fvs its always the last one to die during a raid. More hp, better saves, and a great melee ability when geared. Dumped SP and Cha totally, and i still got 2750 sp with him. Having 627 hp and DR 15, all saves 35 to 44: hes a highlander. he wont die (of course, im supposing that im not drunk or high )

The Cleric compared to the fvs its a bit squishy, 420 hp. with 42 wis and mental toughness, hitting 2200 sp. so around -500 sp compared to my fvs. but -> 25 aura burst. so that 500 sp loss doesnt matter with healing ability. Fvs and Clerics when build, played, and geared right way, are both amazing healers. the clerics DC's are great - although u wont see me BB on epics. maybe a cometfall to help the CC, but not much other then that. With the new Helf dillated enchaments lines, my cleric saves will be just as high(or better) as my fvs. so that doesnt matter much.

The only major difference i see beteween my toons are the fvs wings (i just love that ****), DR and melee ability (regarding melee, yes you can creat a battlecleric, but imo fvs melee >>> any battlecleric build - tryed most of them.) One more thing: imo , full clerics and fvs are better then any splash builds. Why? Ive never been in a spot that evasion is a must. AC its broken at end game, you dont need it at all. and both builds can reach amazing saves. you can live just fine without monk lvls or ac - i prefer more sp, spells and cap in both cases. but again, thats MY opinion,builded up in 2 years of playing and trying lot of fvs and cleric builds.

Regarding Spell slots and choice - actually, thats hardly a problem. unlikely arcane spells, you will use the same spells the entire game. beeing able to change spells at my will its only a must when im having fun at pvp. other then that. my spell list its pretty much the same, for both toons.

Try a horc battlecleric. My guy is deadly in battle though Im slightly struggling with his bab at 6th level but 7th level will sort that. Hes better than my FvS was at melee but she was only a 32 point build. The horc is 36. As for spell points obviously you must have the best gear because my FvS focussed heavily on charisma and has her archmage item and still cant match the sp of you character that dumped charisma.

[Ninetailfox]

Ok lets take an in depth look at the bonuses of each class once again.

Favored soul

Full hit point enhancement class progression

+ 2 damage on deity’s chosen weapon enhancements (lvl 15, 18), +2 damage on deity’s chosen weapon faith path (lvl 12). +4 damage total

+1 to hit with chosen weapon.

Damage boost

To hit boost

Benefits

Higher saves

Free weapon proficiency

More Spell points (we’ll just say about 1k for ease of comparison here. Varies with build of cleric and FvS)

Access to all divine spells on scrolls even spells not selected at level ups. (this works really well for spells that don’t require DC’s such as many status removal spells and wands, however many clerics use these same wands/scrolls to free up spell slots)

10 DR at lvl 20 (just plain useful)

More HP (if toughness line is taken)

Stackable 10 energy resists in 3 chosen energy types (very nice to help reduce damage)

End cap, unlimited usage of 1 spell SP free (if sovereign host unlimited cure lights great for down time healing between fights.)

Leap of faith

Favored Souls have more spell points so rely on using these large pools to be the source of their healing ability.


Cleric

Divine might IV +8 sacred bonus to damage for 1 minute (base 18 cha required but lower tiers available for lower base cha.)

No hitpoint line (racial only)

Weapon selection limited to simple weapons (with half elf fighter enhancement all martial weapons available so not limited to one weapon)

No damage boost

No to hit boost

Benefits

Turns and the ability to utilize them in different ways.
-Divine Vitality 3 = 7d4 +10 SP per turn
-Divine Might IV +8 sacred bonus to strength for 1 minute
-Divine Light III 18d6 light damage to all undead creatures
-Divine Healing 3d3 hp every 2 seconds for 30 seconds.

Ability to use faith path enhancements

Ability to change out spells.

Mores spell slots per level and more 9th level spells memorized. (2 more 9th level spells to be exact)

Higher DC for spells with 1 casting stat and +3 wis bonus enhancement

Has 1 casting stat to maximize (wis only) and FvS has 2 (wis, cha) enables the cleric to put points into other stats (str, con, etc) while not streching themselves thin or ignoring a class stat (FvS dumping cha)

Get access to spells 1 level sooner than favored souls

Radiant Servant. Has got to be the greatest advantage there is between the two. Period.
- healing burst
- healing aura
The effects of radient servant are based off your number of turns and turns have a recharge rate so do not require shrines to refresh. You can use your healing effects to significantly improve your ability to burst heal and heal over time at no spell point cost to the caster and all your bonuses to healing effect this. The auras/burst combined with BB can decimate undead as well as keep your group healed. Mass healing also has this effect. Nothing the Favored soul brings to the table compares with this.

If you bring two clerics both with Divine Vitality III and with say 15 turns each (more is possible especially with new items that add turns) and feed each other SP. Dumping those turns all on DV would give between 255-570 spell points and the turns naturally recharge on their own between shrines so this number could be even higher.

A Cleric is far superior in the roll of a support class for the party. They are simply more versatile than a favored soul. The favored soul brings more spell points for heals and yet do not bring much more to the table with regards to anything else. Their melee is only +4 to damage and +1 to hit with their deity’s weapon (excluding their boosts) more than a cleric so I fail to see where everyone keeps getting that they are ‘better’ at melee than clerics. It is marginal at best. A properly built battle cleric would equal or surpass a favored soul especially with Divine Might.

Furthermore, in all my time playing clerics with wands, spell scrolls (heal scrolls), and spell point conservation, I have not had many situations were I could not keep a party alive due to lack of spell points. In fact with many quests there are so many shrines that I frequently hold off using them and save them for later because I’m just not running out of spell points. Favored souls are focused on target healing and mass healing based on their higher spell points. Clerics are more party friendly and give the party access to abilities that a FvS cannot match. Show me a favored soul who can give another caster in the party 500 extra spell points as a class ability?

People keep focusing on large spell pools and a few cool tricks (that benefit the favored soul only and not party) and claim favored soul out perform clerics. They miss the big picture and everything that clerics bring to the table and that is a rock solid group support class.

I'm not saying that no one should play favored souls. They are a rewarding and fun class to play while providing a different approach to the divine caster than cleric. I'm just saying, quit bashing clerics and saying we are inferior when that simply is not the case. Personally I have a hard time playing favored souls simply because I feel clerics just bring more to the table and the cleric Radiant Servant is a large contributor to this opinion. In the end each class brings their own style of play to the table and both can contribute to a party.

[shores11]

I have both a level 20 cleric and a level 20 FvS, they are both healers.

I find that one has some benefits the other does not and play both consistantly. I could say unequivically that one is better than the other. They both can be top notch healers with the right player.

[Narse]

I had a quick thought that 17 Cleric/2 Monk/1 Favored Soul would still give double the spell points from items?

[satanofmetal]

I had a quick thought that 17 Cleric/2 Monk/1 Favored Soul would still give double the spell points from items?

Nope, not at all.

[joneb1999]

Well I have a capped FvS and my cleric is now on his second tr. I looked at a horc cleric and fvs and I decided cleric18/fighter2 was better. The decision was made when I realised that the horc doesnt get any FvS two handed weapon damage bonus like a WF does but also because of my two cleric past life feats stacking I realised I could do some decent turning and dispelling of undead when i wasnt using my turns for divine might 2 or for healing bursts.

Melee wise cleric at cap will have a bab of an 18th lvl fighter.
He will have
*32 strength (just enhancements, ability points and +6 item and +1 enhanced strength item) giving damage of +9
*divine favor giving+3 damage
*divine might 2 giving +4 damage
*horc melee damage +4 damage
*power attack (2h weapon and orc power attack 3) +16 damage
= total damage bonus +36 damage
Plus I havent even included ship buffs or pots
To cap it all Im sure my Min2 Greatsword will be of immense help
With radiant servant aura running Ill heal quite nicely

I dont care how an FvS melee oriented toon turns out, Im happy with my cleric. Plus if I have to turn to my aura bursts I always have that option.

[d4rkstars]

I had a quick thought that 17 Cleric/2 Monk/1 Favored Soul would still give double the spell points from items?

be really carefull on that one, because many people will tell you that "yes indeed I get the double SP" and they wont admit i, because it is the only way they find to explain their build.

the definite answer is NO, you dont get double SP from item, you can only double your level (in the class that has double xp) * 10

if you are lvl 10 fvs, you can double 10*10 = 100 sp, mean a magi item (+100 sp) will give you 200 sp
if you are cleric9/1fvs, you can double 1*10= 100 sp, mean a magi item (+100sp) will give you 110 sp, gl in explaining you lost your capstone for 10 sp (this is a generalisation, some build are perfectly viable with 1 level of Fvs or sorc, but most arent)

[d4rkstars]

Melee wise cleric (18/2) at cap will have a bab of an 18th lvl fighter.

i dont get this - bab progression is linked to the class you are using

# +1 BAB per level, the best BAB progression, is reserved for the warrior classes (Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, and Ranger).
# +.75 BAB per level, the second best BAB progression, is used by the Bard, Cleric, Favored Soul, Monk, and Rogue.

a 18/2 cleric/fighter, will get 18*0.75 + 2 = 15 (rounded down) - with divine power, 18+2 = 20, so where the 18 comes from ?

[Pape_27]

I have played a cleric to cap, and now, after grinding out 2500+ favor, finally have a FvS, who is currently level 5.

From what I have found, at low levels, the cleric is better. The extra sp the fvs doesnt really amount for much because the class loses too much by way of spells. Yes the extra sp helps, but not being able to buff players with things like resists because of the odd vs even spell slotting makes a huge difference to me. The cleric at lower levels seem to run much more smoothly.

As for higher levels, its a wait and see as I have only hit level 5 with the FvS.

So far, without considering the spell versatility, the difference between the two is the cleric is f2p while the FvS, unless you want to wait and grind out 2,500 favor like I did, costs real live money. Both are fun classes to play.

The only thing i would add is if this is the first time someone is rolling a divine class or is a beginning player, go for Cleric first. Learn the ins and outs of playing a healing class. learn what is needed and what can be scrolled/wand whipped/potted in terms of spells. A lot of players starting out just dont have the resources to fund those expenses, especially at low levels. Its a lot cheaper to buy spell components than it is to buy wands/scrolls and pots.

Either way you go - Cleric or FvS - you win. They are two of the best classes in the game.


_

[AylinIsAwesome]

Furthermore, in all my time playing clerics with wands, spell scrolls (heal scrolls), and spell point conservation, I have not had many situations were I could not keep a party alive due to lack of spell points. In fact with many quests there are so many shrines that I frequently hold off using them and save them for later because I’m just not running out of spell points. Favored souls are focused on target healing and mass healing based on their higher spell points. Clerics are more party friendly and give the party access to abilities that a FvS cannot match. Show me a favored soul who can give another caster in the party 500 extra spell points as a class ability?

If running out of SP isn't really an issue for casters, then why is the ability to give another caster +500 SP significant?

[voodoogroves]

i dont get this - bab progression is linked to the class you are using

# +1 BAB per level, the best BAB progression, is reserved for the warrior classes (Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, and Ranger).
# +.75 BAB per level, the second best BAB progression, is used by the Bard, Cleric, Favored Soul, Monk, and Rogue.

a 18/2 cleric/fighter, will get 18*0.75 + 2 = 15 (rounded down) - with divine power, 18+2 = 20, so where the 18 comes from ?

Your result is correct but I think your rounding explanation may confuse folks.

Fighters (and barb/pally/ranger) get +1 BAB at each level. Cleric gets no BAB increase at 1, 5, 9, 13, 17 ... so cleric 20 would miss 5 BAB and only have a 15. A cleric 18 would have a BAB of 13 ... having not received BAB for the cleric levels mentioned. The two fighter levels would add 2 more and end up with the same BAB as a straight cleric.

You can see this on the ddowiki page: http://ddowiki.com/page/Cleric

Essentially, that rounding down is PER CLASS. A rogue 1 / bard 1 / favored soul 1 / cleric 1 would be level 4 and have a +0 BAB.

[joneb1999]

Your result is correct but I think your rounding explanation may confuse folks.

Fighters (and barb/pally/ranger) get +1 BAB at each level. Cleric gets no BAB increase at 1, 5, 9, 13, 17 ... so cleric 20 would miss 5 BAB and only have a 15. A cleric 18 would have a BAB of 13 ... having not received BAB for the cleric levels mentioned. The two fighter levels would add 2 more and end up with the same BAB as a straight cleric.

You can see this on the ddowiki page: http://ddowiki.com/page/Cleric

Essentially, that rounding down is PER CLASS. A rogue 1 / bard 1 / favored soul 1 / cleric 1 would be level 4 and have a +0 BAB.

EDIT:
I checked the wiki page and multiclassed babs do stack but does it work with divine power as the description of this says it gives the same to hit bonus as a fighter at the same level? So now Im confused what bab I can expect with Cleric 18 / Fighter 2 running divine power?

[voodoogroves]

20; Divine Power sets your BAB to your CHARACTER level. Not caster level, not class level, character level.