Start Over On Airships and Renown, sorta

[Steiner-Davion]

Yes, that will happen. It's funny, but that's analogous to the consequence of the new raid loot system: players gravitated to bigger groups to get better rewards, regardless of if it was less fun for them to play.

When larger groups have a mechanical benefit then players will be pressured to join the biggest groups, but past experience shows it will often be in name only. Often people will have minimal interaction with much of the rest of the group: the guild becomes more of a shared investment in services than a team that works together. Players who grow to dislike their guild will nonetheless feel stuck there for the bonuses, and leaders will feel bad to boot anyone on behavioral grounds if he's contributed to amenities.

Which is a good indication that the proposed system is seriously flawed in its rewards at the very least!

[cardmj1]

Thats a key point of the various rants. IF they did not stack they would just be substitutes for spells or potions (just like the House P/J buffs are now.) That would be a LOT more acceptable. A one stop convience for buffing instead of having to jump all over Stormreach.

You could buff the hell out of your lowbies, and let them run wild. But many of those buffs would be no better than most of the spells or pots you could stock them with instead.

The issue comes with the stacking on TOP of other buffs or effects. 60+pt Fire Resists for everyone. Bonuses to DC that exceed the benefits of TR or prestige classes and if you already have those past life or prestige perks, even larger bonuses to DC (add in another DC from buffed casting stat as well) and you could have signigicantly large boosts to spell DC's. Which to keep anything remotely close to balanced means the mobs DC's need to go up, which would render non guilded casters effective neutered. Each little buff looks innocent on the surface, but it is like many P&P games where the DM gives a little on something (no big deal) but pretty quickly the campaign is borked by overwhelming power creep.

They are taking active efforts to reign in offensive power via combat changes, but at the same time trying to give it back via a guild airship bribe.

Eh... I thought I said that but in a K.I.S.S sorta way. But thank you for fleshing it out for those that may not understand the ramifications of the buffs.

[Zenako]

Also, when they mention hanging guild text, are they talking about the thing beneath my character's name that says: "Officer/Member, [Guild Name]"? Because I like having that there, as it makes me feel a bit better, since earning officerhood in my guild actually means something.
.

You still see the guild name but instead of seeing "Member, Officer, or Leader" after the guild name you see a simple NUMBER which is your Guild Rank. Currently that ranges from 1 to 100. 1 is a starting guild with 0 reknown. 100 is the top of the heap with some huge amount of reknown. Currently all reknown earned up thru guild rank 25 ( you can get a ship at rank 20) is permanent. Reknown over rank 25 will decay with time (alogorthm unsure at this time). So if everyone stops playing, it will settle back to 25.

I expect to see a lot ~25's in the game as most guilds will probably work to get a ship, just to have one, and then some will focus on trying to be the top dog. Others will not care. BUT, everyone who sees your character will see your Guild Rank, be it 1, 5, 48 or 90. Scarlett letters for all.

[Steiner-Davion]

/signed.

Couldn't agree more with both of these.

Guild rewards should be about the convenience, not character improvements.

Renown should be about accomplishing deeds. Give renown for completing optionals in quests and for completing quests themselves. Give renown for killing rares in the wilderness.

Absolutely Agree. Those are great ideas.

[Zenako]

Eh... I thought I said that but in a K.I.S.S sorta way. But thank you for fleshing it out for those that may not understand the ramifications of the buffs.

New thread new audience and it is imperitive that everyone understand the scope of the implications of this developement.

[Grosbeak07]

You still see the guild name but instead of seeing "Member, Officer, or Leader" after the guild name you see a simple NUMBER which is your Guild Rank. Currently that ranges from 1 to 100. 1 is a starting guild with 0 reknown. 100 is the top of the heap with some huge amount of reknown. Currently all reknown earned up thru guild rank 25 ( you can get a ship at rank 20) is permanent. Reknown over rank 25 will decay with time (alogorthm unsure at this time). So if everyone stops playing, it will settle back to 25.

I expect to see a lot ~25's in the game as most guilds will probably work to get a ship, just to have one, and then some will focus on trying to be the top dog. Others will not care. BUT, everyone who sees your character will see your Guild Rank, be it 1, 5, 48 or 90. Scarlett letters for all.

So its bad enough we have My DDO to screen people, but now you will be rejected based on your guilds renown? Yet another slap in the face for small guilds.

[Steiner-Davion]

From all we have seen, ALL the guild perks STACK. So the extra Stat points STACK, the extra Spell DC's Stack, the extra Elemental Resists STACK. They all STACK. There are also extra To HIT and to DAMAGE buffs that STACK.

A FULLY ARMED DEATHSTAR will crank out toons with a set of 1 hour buffs that will allow them to overpower current quests and quest designs. Which bodes ill for those on less than Deathstars....in future endevours.

New quests are already being designed ot compensate for the extra overpoweredness of characters. THis will only lead to further buffing and flat out immunities of monsters i nthe game. THe developers will have to compensate for the extra uberness of the players, by increading Saves, and HP of monsters and by adding immunities.

Players in large guilds will not be affected, but players in small guilds will either fall farther and farther behind or be forced to quit their small guilds and join up with larger guilds, until we are left with only 1 guild per server! At that point why even be in a guild in the first place?

[ArichValtrahn]

Stats, Damage, Energy Resistance? No. Scrap them. Pretty much anything that will improve your character in game should be thrown out. Things that help via convenience are fine (group storage, shops in one place, etc.). The other things are very poorly thought out and really don't make any sense, either.

I agree. The benefits should be about convenience, and thats it.

[MateCarefor]

I really don't think Turbine cares what I think, but for what it is worth:

/signed

Guild housing and private areas are more than acceptable to me
Housing with conveniences as plat sinks are more than welcome.

Gaining advantage through guild size or spam-farming guildies,
being given special cheats over other players,
and restricting item use based on some arbitrary clan-level-system
HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DnD

Just more of the move to MMOness and a bounding leap away from DnDness.

[Ashiel_Dragmire]

The new format is as follows:

Raincloud Brightwell
Adventure Inc. (4)

(4) being your guild level. Officer/Member is no longer showed.

Ah, thank you for the clarification. I'll miss seeing my ranks...

But why should someone else see how "good" my guild is? If they want to know so badly, why not ask to join? This system is just stupid. Can't wait to see the General Chat full of "Looking for Guild (25)" or "Guild (50) looking for Members! Let's get us an airship!"

[Coldin]

I'll be a dissenting voice here. I don't mind getting things like small buffs for having more renown.

My complaint is that currently renown takes forever to get unless you're a large guild. Even with the new build on Lamannia, we're still seeing barely any renown dropping from chests and end rewards, but still plentiful from bags.

So, my issue isn't with the rewards, but the process it takes to get the rewards. Ideally, even small, competent, guilds should be able to achieve the higher levels of renown without much difficulty.

[Steiner-Davion]

I'm not a big fan of whining too much; I just take what Turbine gives me and learn to play it, and when I can't do that anymore, I'll just split.

That being said, why can't they just ask us before implementing stuff like this. I know they can do surveys.

You get a little mail that says "Hey, Gang...we're thinking about implementing guild housing with the following ideas. Take 5 minutes of your time and tell us what you think." Then they can have 10-20 questions on various proposed features. They would get feedback based not only on survey results, but from the lively discussion that would take place on the forums BEFORE implementation.

It would slow down the process, but would provide a higher quality product.

I know that some people still wouldn't be happy, but I think majority sense would win out in most cases.

Just my 2 cp.

- Dran

That would be too logical and easy wouldn't it.

[Alanim]

Curious, can a guest on a ship get these buffs? If so, this won't be as bad as it seems, the buffs do only last a hour before needing to be recharged, and most if not all of them are removed on death.

It really doesn't seem that bad.

[cardmj1]

Ah, thank you for the clarification. I'll miss seeing my ranks...

But why should someone else see how "good" my guild is? If they want to know so badly, why not ask to join? This system is just stupid. Can't wait to see the General Chat full of "Looking for Guild (25)" or "Guild (50) looking for Members! Let's get us an airship!"

I still think that it will look like this:

"XYZ (18) recruiting. Let's get an airship"
"ABC (25) recruiting. 1 astral diamond for invite. 1000 plat a month for membership.
"GHI (80) not recruiting but will invite based on build, gear, and plat.

[Zenako]

I'll be a dissenting voice here. I don't mind getting things like small buffs for having more renown.

My complaint is that currently renown takes forever to get unless you're a large guild. Even with the new build on Lamannia, we're still seeing barely any renown dropping from chests and end rewards, but still plentiful from bags.

So, my issue isn't with the rewards, but the process it takes to get the rewards. Ideally, even small, competent, guilds should be able to achieve the higher levels of renown without much difficulty.

Until we know more about the decay rates, it will be impossible to assess how achieveable some of those things might be. A small guild might not have enough hours in the day to offset the decay.

[KingOfCheese]

I might have to petition for more text space in the lfm box. How am I going to fit all of this in ?


ToD: know what you are doing, must have boots, lvl 20 only, guild rank 90+ (must have have all available performance enhancing boosts), must show DR-bypassing weapons, must have at least 3 class-relevant UPGRADED epic items worn, casters must have 38+ DCs, melees must have 700+ hps, no twf'ers, healers must have epic ring of spell storing and bauble; new players welcome.

[Steiner-Davion]

They are sent randomly to the players that have agreed to take surveys. The content is confidential however, so anyone that took them is not allowed to share the details.

I know that they are totally random, but some things shouldn't be random.

I'm just getting more and more steamed, and looking for ways to show it. U5 is quickly becoming my least favorite game update with each passing day.

[cardmj1]

I might have to petition for more text space in the lfm box. How am I going to fit all of this in ?


ToD: know what you are doing, must have boots, lvl 20 only, guild rank 90+ (must have have all available performance enhancing boosts), must show DR-bypassing weapons, must have at least 3 class-relevant UPGRADED epic items worn, casters must have 38+ DCs, melees must have 700+ hps, no twf'ers, healers must have epic ring of spell storing and bauble; new players welcome.

umm.... they nerfed the bauble and ring of spell storing.

[DANTEIL]

My complaint is that currently renown takes forever to get unless you're a large guild. Even with the new build on Lamannia, we're still seeing barely any renown dropping from chests and end rewards, but still plentiful from bags.

So, my issue isn't with the rewards, but the process it takes to get the rewards. Ideally, even small, competent, guilds should be able to achieve the higher levels of renown without much difficulty.

That part doesn't bother me. In my opinion, it *should* take a long time and be relatively difficult for a guild to get enough renown to acquire a ship plus everything else. For smaller guilds, this will take longer/be more difficult, true, but I don't know what to do about that. (The way in which you should gain renown -- i.e., completing quests etc. rather than looting bodies -- is a different issue).

[KingOfCheese]

umm.... they nerfed the bauble and ring of spell storing.

That's why I am requiring both