Start Over On Airships and Renown, sorta

[Sker-lyn]

I agree, totally.

I'm leader of a really small guild and I'm really thinking that we never will be able to achieve and maintain even the middle ranks in this system as it is now.

Like a tip, the devs can took Lama experience to messure the impact of this kind of method. You see, I entered in a normal guild, not DDO Daily, and was a full guild at all... Currently we are rank 12 but I saw a huge number of desertions in these last days, with people flying to DDO Daily just to see before the ships stuff. I don't see curiousity bad and Lama is a test server, but you can take that and translate it into live servers.

Huge guilds will grow up like monsters, hitting the top ranks, with huge ships and all the cool stuff and they gonna have that very fast. Small ones, in the other hand, will take their time and like people is impatient, there will be a disbandment to the high rank guilds. Sure, guilds like mine will be no affected for that 'cause my guys and I are friends, from long time, we play in a permanent group, all banded together. But small guilds with recruitment system and wishes to grow... bad, bad thing for them.

I don't saying that I want all the goodies just cause I'm cute like if my guild was one of the huge sharks in the game, but this is gonna make more harm than good. And... D&D is a cooperative game, a party bands together to bit the game and have fun. And this isn't about having fun together... is about bigs growing big and smalls being smaller.

Suggestion? Maybe will be good maintein the favor but transforming the guild into a pc... I mean, the guilds get renown just like now but they don't lose it (like if it was xp). In that way big guilds will have their stuff sooner and small guilds will be able to grow up in their own speed and, someday, with a lot of effort, gain the coolest things in guild favor just like the others.

[Tharlak]

/Anything that affects your character while adventureing should be thrown out. Convienance, travel, storage are what we all thought of when this was suggested, not character enhancing buffs.

The second thing is that any renown system should not be affected in any way by loot drops. Treasure bags, chests pulls and end rewards are not what renown is about. Completing deeds, adventures, difficult things is what renown should be all about, not how lucky you are with your loot rolls.

/signed.

Couldn't agree more with both of these.

Guild rewards should be about the convenience, not character improvements.

Renown should be about accomplishing deeds. Give renown for completing optionals in quests and for completing quests themselves. Give renown for killing rares in the wilderness.

[Visty]

have to agree with aspensor here

all those stacking buffs are **** and will just unbalance the game even more

maybe enable a few buffs like house p and j ones, but make them like the normal spells and thus dont stack

[Angelus_dead]

Extra experience is fine... doesn't impact gameplay.

It doesn't change gameplay within a quest, but it certainly has a big implication for how fast you level, and will be strong motivation for players to try to get into guilds that qualify for the XP boost.

[Ehllie]

Back when i heard about the survey on guilds, i never thought those guild buffs would even make their way to lammania...
That's a super bad idea. :/

[Steiner-Davion]

Basically, I feel that Turbine stuck their middle finger in the air to small guilds. Renown was a bad idea, period. Large guilds will continue to just get larger, and small guilds will see their members gravitate to larger ones just for the path of least resistance to some of the poorly thought out buffs available.

Stats, Damage, Energy Resistance? No. Scrap them. Pretty much anything that will improve your character in game should be thrown out. Things that help via convenience are fine (group storage, shops in one place, etc.). The other things are very poorly thought out and really don't make any sense, either.

I have been saying that they had better becareful how they do this so that Guild size doesn't matter in the least, since they first announced Guild Airships at PAX East!

Static Groups and small guilds just got royally screwed over!

[edit] I can live with the fact that my guild airship might be be able to have all of the attachment points for crew members and other features like the tavern, mailbox AH and what not. BUT, Character Buffs? That is a MAJOR Slap in the face!

[cardmj1]

I also agree with most everyone here.

When we asked for guild housing years ago, we asked for a place where we can hang out with guildies, have a barkeep, maybe a few vendors and storage space. Just a simple piece of real estate that we could buy and call home. The buffs are overpowered, the reknown gathering is morbid, and if it stays the way it now on Lama... well, you will only be killing the spirit of the game. You may have become corporate America but your customers are trying to get away from it. I can see it now, large guilds will start charging membership fees to be a member with a recruitment fee from the initial invite. I am not looking to join a gym, I just want to play the game with some friends.

[Zenako]

Extra experience is fine... doesn't impact gameplay.

I definitely think guild renown should be tied to quest completions, not treasure drops...

Oh, but I agree with renown decay... If you're not out there saving the world, people will forget about you...

I'm really surprised at the 30 point resists... Are we sure that's stackable? That sounds insane... If not stackable, I think it's a okay idea.

From all we have seen, ALL the guild perks STACK. So the extra Stat points STACK, the extra Spell DC's Stack, the extra Elemental Resists STACK. They all STACK. There are also extra To HIT and to DAMAGE buffs that STACK.

A FULLY ARMED DEATHSTAR will crank out toons with a set of 1 hour buffs that will allow them to overpower current quests and quest designs. Which bodes ill for those on less than Deathstars....in future endevours.

[cardmj1]

From all we have seen, ALL the guild perks STACK. So the extra Stat points STACK, the extra Spell DC's Stack, the extra Elemental Resists STACK. They all STACK. There are also extra To HIT and to DAMAGE buffs that STACK.

The first tier Denieth grants +1 dr/+1 ac for 1 hour. For end content, it's meh, ok. For a level 4 guildie, that is huge.

[KingOfCheese]

A few predictions:

1) The buffs will change in the future to nerf them. This will be after guilds invest huge amounts of time, game money, and RL money into building these up. There will be much screaming when the nerf arrives.

2) drama in guilds of all sizes will increase and there will be lots of disbanding, reforming, and turn-over. A number of established guilds, already stressed by the lack of fresh things to do, will be drama'ed to death (which seems to be happening anyway--the ships will up the ante).

[Ashiel_Dragmire]

The problem with renown is that people are going to see that one guild is Lv 99 (or whatever the highest Level is, I don't have access to Lam and I haven't read an article about it lately) and assume that the guild is full of TEH UBER 733T5 (is that how you spell it?), when in reality the guild MIGHT have a handful of good players and a bunch of idiots just grinding favor to get a fancy ship.

Also, when they mention hanging guild text, are they talking about the thing beneath my character's name that says: "Officer/Member, [Guild Name]"? Because I like having that there, as it makes me feel a bit better, since earning officerhood in my guild actually means something.

Fortunately I don't forsee my guild disbanding, since we've all been playing together since shortly after F2P launch and have been playing on a nearly daily basis. Needless to say, we're all friends and won't be giving that up for some fancy airships and buffs.

[Grosbeak07]

I am a guild leader of small to medium sized guild on Thelanis. Recently I've had to open discussions with our allied guilds to see if it worth staying seperate anymore because of the guild housing option.

The way the system currently looks, there is no advantage to staying small. This would mean losing 3 guilds which have been around since BETA. Smaller guilds have to be given some sort of "hand up" to help compete with larger guilds. I'm not saying Turbine should give an easy button and we are all level 100 guilds, but all guilds should be able to achieve the "good stuff" (whatever they may end up being).

I also think it was wrong to start all guilds at Level 1. That is a slap in the face for guilds which have worked to stay active and alive for the last 4 years. Congratulations for staying loyal to the game, you are now the same as the guy who started his guild yesterday.

I like the idea of guild housing and don't really care one way or the other about buffs, as long as all guilds can access it one way or another.

[Steiner-Davion]

Items based on guild renown: throw them out.

Buffs based on guild renown: throw them out.

Extra experience from guild renown: throw it out.

Nobody wanted any of this, and all of it should go.

QFT

I would also like to see the all the Crafting Alters Removed, with the exception of the Stone of Change, I could go either way on that one. BUT Raid/Quest Crafting Alters, shold only be found in the Raid/Quest they are in, if for no other reason than a Story standpoint. BUt definitely from a Game Balance Standpoint. You want to craft, do the Raid/Quest the alter is in so you can use the alter.

[dranreb]

I'm not a big fan of whining too much; I just take what Turbine gives me and learn to play it, and when I can't do that anymore, I'll just split.

That being said, why can't they just ask us before implementing stuff like this. I know they can do surveys.

You get a little mail that says "Hey, Gang...we're thinking about implementing guild housing with the following ideas. Take 5 minutes of your time and tell us what you think." Then they can have 10-20 questions on various proposed features. They would get feedback based not only on survey results, but from the lively discussion that would take place on the forums BEFORE implementation.

It would slow down the process, but would provide a higher quality product.

I know that some people still wouldn't be happy, but I think majority sense would win out in most cases.

Just my 2 cp.

- Dran

[Steiner-Davion]

I agree that this should all go. But I do think a lot of people wanted/want this. Turbine circulated a survey on this exact topic and received a lot of player feedback. I suspect that they drew the line on the level of amenities, at least in part, based on this player feedback.

What survey? I never got a stinking survey! Not once in over 4 years!

[Zenako]

The first tier Denieth grants +1 dr/+1 ac for 1 hour. For end content, it's meh, ok. For a level 4 guildie, that is huge.

Thats a key point of the various rants. IF they did not stack they would just be substitutes for spells or potions (just like the House P/J buffs are now.) That would be a LOT more acceptable. A one stop convience for buffing instead of having to jump all over Stormreach.

You could buff the hell out of your lowbies, and let them run wild. But many of those buffs would be no better than most of the spells or pots you could stock them with instead.

The issue comes with the stacking on TOP of other buffs or effects. 60+pt Fire Resists for everyone. Bonuses to DC that exceed the benefits of TR or prestige classes and if you already have those past life or prestige perks, even larger bonuses to DC (add in another DC from buffed casting stat as well) and you could have signigicantly large boosts to spell DC's. Which to keep anything remotely close to balanced means the mobs DC's need to go up, which would render non guilded casters effective neutered. Each little buff looks innocent on the surface, but it is like many P&P games where the DM gives a little on something (no big deal) but pretty quickly the campaign is borked by overwhelming power creep.

They are taking active efforts to reign in offensive power via combat changes, but at the same time trying to give it back via a guild airship bribe.

[Demeron]

/signed

as i belive small Guilds will die and the Large once will get even more Elitess then they are already now!

[Steiner-Davion]

What are some guild airship features that are (mostly) acceptable?

* Convenient access to standard amenities (bank, mail, auction)
* Rapid travel to different zones (meridia, desert, refuge)
* Discounted vendors (maybe with items that bind-to-guild)
* Bank space shared between characters (with selectable access restrictions)

Agree with these, but not with the one below. Buffs of any sort should NOT be available. You want a buff because your in a Guild, track down a player in your guild to get hem to cast a buff on you, or better yet, group with your guild.

* Long-lasting buffs that don't stack with other bonus sources (and which may be limited by character level)

NO Buffs!!!

[cardmj1]

The problem with renown is that people are going to see that one guild is Lv 99 (or whatever the highest Level is, I don't have access to Lam and I haven't read an article about it lately) and assume that the guild is full of TEH UBER 733T5 (is that how you spell it?), when in reality the guild MIGHT have a handful of good players and a bunch of idiots just grinding favor to get a fancy ship.

Also, when they mention hanging guild text, are they talking about the thing beneath my character's name that says: "Officer/Member, [Guild Name]"? Because I like having that there, as it makes me feel a bit better, since earning officerhood in my guild actually means something.

Fortunately I don't forsee my guild disbanding, since we've all been playing together since shortly after F2P launch and have been playing on a nearly daily basis. Needless to say, we're all friends and won't be giving that up for some fancy airships and buffs.

The new format is as follows:

Raincloud Brightwell
Adventure Inc. (4)

(4) being your guild level. Officer/Member is no longer showed.

[KingOfCheese]

What survey? I never got a stinking survey! Not once in over 4 years!

They are sent randomly to the players that have agreed to take surveys. The content is confidential however, so anyone that took them is not allowed to share the details.