LIVE shroud testing event to compare with lama s&b vs twf

[Drfirewater79]

Welcome Turbine fanboi's and haters alike

welcome to Shroud-a-polusa : proof is in the testing (sarlona server)


on saturday june 19th we are throwing a back to back test of lag on live servers

first at 6pm EST a s&b only event ... attempting to see how bad the lag is on live servers in an all s&b shroud ....

then directly following WE DO IT AGAIN .... this time ALL TWF .... its time to prove once and for all that shroud lag is not just caused by twf but overall dps.



Please note that for balanced testing we would prefer that all testers have either tier III shroud weapons OR silver/good dr bypassing weapons for both runs.

we would love it if we could get a stealth Dev to join (send me a PM no need for people to know if or who the dev is but i think its important for them to see and hear peoples reactions preferably a DEV who wont take it personal if there is alot of negativity tossed around which could be expected since this is live not lama and lag is expected in both runs)

hope also that we can grab at least one of the Lama testers so they can compare our lag with the lag they found on lama servers as well.

if your interested please note below if your interests lie in

s&b only

or

twf only

or

both ...


if you wish list what weapons you use in part 4 and 5

so that i can make sure we are using similar numbers of dr bypass and shroud weapons in both runs to keep the runs equal for testing purposes.

Thank you and see ya at the event.

sign ups also found at DDOcast forums ...http://s7.zetaboards.com/Ddocast/topic/8302029/1/

[ghettoGenius]

Good luck with your test. I hope you will consider the possibility that various classes contribute to lag in different ways. For instance, classes with many extra damage modifiers such as pallys/rogues/barbs almost certainly add more dps lag than those that dont do additional damage. I'm thinking the best way to isolate this variability is to have same or similar group makeups in those runs. Just a thought.

Edit: Shouldve listed monks as well as they seem to add more additional die rolls.

[grodon9999]

Which live server are you testing on? Count me in with Ghallanda, my ranger has a Madstone Shield.

[smatt]

hmm, I salute the idea to try and test..... But, I'm trying to figure out where you got the idea or read that all Shroud lag is caused by TWF? Perhaps it has been said that various aspects of TWF are causing a good portion of it, but exactly what aspects? This is the kind of pure propaganda tha causes so many people to be misinformed. Talk radio/ Cable News blah blah.....

Sooo.. you would have to gather a wide variety of TWF classes, documenting exactly what feats/enhancements they had... Then run many mnay mnay and a few more many runs to actually have any kind of results..... I think Eladrin said, that perhaps something with monks was a possible major culprit... More likely though it's a cumulative affect from many sources...

Good luck though...... Anything might help

[grodon9999]

hmm, I salute the idea to try and test..... But, I'm trying to figure out where you got the idea or read that all Shroud lag is caused by TWF? Perhaps it has been said that various aspects of TWF are causing a good portion of it, but exactly what aspects? This is the kind of pure propaganda tha causes so many people to be misinformed. Talk radio/ Cable News blah blah.....

Eladrin did say this in the thread where the proposed TWF changes were first presented.

[Shade]

The lag encountered in large raids IS caused by twf/monks directly. This is a known fact and your test will just go to further show that.

Personally I've seen hundreds of test cases and the results are conclusive.

In the 100+ VoN6 epics i've done:
Everytime there was bad lag: There was at least 3 TWF
Everytime there was insane lag: At least 4 twf
Worst lag ever: 6 twf, couple monks
Everytime there was little to no lag: Almost everyone was THF, with maybe 1 TWF
Zero lag: Everytime everyone was THF

Same goes for tower.

The most people attacking with the more effects going at once, the more likely you are to lag.

That's not to say THF or SnB can't cause lag, they can. They just don't get as many effects per second so they contribute allot less towards hitting the "event horizon" that causes it.
IE: If you have 4 TWF attacking and no lag, and 2 more THF start attacking, the lag could very well start up.

But turbines solution of nerfing everyone is not the way to fix this.

As if people recall, years ago when the shroud first came out and the servers weren't very busy.. You could have 10 TWF attacking with full t3 greensteel and no lag. As less people playing meant we had more bandwidth available per raidgroup.

[smatt]

Eladrin did say this in the thread where the proposed TWF changes were first presented.

No what he said is that they thought it was a big contributer, and one that would also address other issues they had going forward in the future. But he didn't say it was the only cause.... There are so many varying causes for lag.... Exactly which problem is the most prevailant at any one time or in anyone party or in any one quest isn't neccesarily all that easy to track down. Go back through the Dev trackers and read through ALL of his posts on this subject.. Then take them as a whole, instead of keying in on 1 particular statement. He says a lot more indirectly than he does directly...


I'm all for players throwing out ideas to help the Devs come up with what might be better solutions.... Gathering as much live server info as possible would likely help them. But it has to be pretty detailed info... And the players certailyl wouldn't be able to come to any conclusions themselves.. But it might provide some valuable data for the Devs to take a look at. screen shots of party/server etc.. They could pull the data for those toons and recreate the party... Then run it on their in house servers IF they thought it would help them track a a particular problem.

Again,the only problem I see are too sure of themselves players thinking that one of the se runs is proof of anything .

[Drfirewater79]

Good luck with your test. I hope you will consider the possibility that various classes contribute to lag in different ways. For instance, classes with many extra damage modifiers such as pallys/rogues/barbs almost certainly add more dps lag than those that dont do additional damage. I'm thinking the best way to isolate this variability is to have same or similar group makeups in those runs. Just a thought.

Oh good point i will try to keep it balanced once i see what people are interested ... two weeks to figure it out and sure i am gonna get more response on DDOcast forums then live ... closer community there.

Which live server are you testing on? Count me in with Ghallanda, my ranger has a Madstone Shield.

Sorry grodon .... though i mentioned sarlona ... wish i had lvl 20's on multiple servers but grinding new gear or paying for transfers so i could have similar builds on multiple servers just wasnt in my cards

i edited the post to state sarlona server

hmm, I salute the idea to try and test..... But, I'm trying to figure out where you got the idea or read that all Shroud lag is caused by TWF? Perhaps it has been said that various aspects of TWF are causing a good portion of it, but exactly what aspects? This is the kind of pure propaganda tha causes so many people to be misinformed. Talk radio/ Cable News blah blah.....

Sooo.. you would have to gather a wide variety of TWF classes, documenting exactly what feats/enhancements they had... Then run many mnay mnay and a few more many runs to actually have any kind of results..... I think Eladrin said, that perhaps something with monks was a possible major culprit... More likely though it's a cumulative affect from many sources...

Good luck though...... Anything might help

The nerf to TWF was because of multiple physics checks stating that the mutliple physics checks are to blame for the lag ....

also the 10% alacracy was taken out because it requires the same multiple physics checks BUT FASTER.

so to squash the propaganda i want to do this test ... which will prove once and for all if twf is the culprit .... this is why we are doing it on live servers not on lama

this way with current game stats ... we see if s&b has less lag or same lag as TWF

if it has the same lag as TWF then it proves that the new TWF nerf is not needed and as some testers have pointed out from lama test ... is actually worse then live.

HOWEVER

if lag is obviously worse in the TWF party then it proves the latter ... that the nerf is needed and then people can stop fighting about it.

I have noticed my mail box have letter after letter of friends not in my guild stating they are leaving the game .... after trying out lama server and reading the lama forums.

I think this test will help them see that the changes are NEEDED ... but if it proves other wise ... then it tells turbine that they should delay these changes and work on a better way to fix the lag on overpopulated servers.

If you ask me my opinion over populated servers are the major issue ... and the fact that turbine will not open new servers allowing free server transfers to new servers for the sake of reducing populations of individual servers with high traffic .... this fact is the reason we have massive lag that we never had pre mod 9.

it makes no sense to open a new server and not allow transfers cause the over populated servers are not just over populated with new players but over populated with vets from the last server merge.

people who would have to beable to move there whole guild or friends list to a new server before it would be a viable option.

if turbine opens two new servers allowing free server transfers to the two new servers for 1 weekend they would notice a huge dip in dps and server lag per server as troubled servers have three - four guilds worth of players changing for the hope of better lag conditions.