Mechanically impossible to solo

[SisAmethyst]

Restless can be soloed with a ddoor scroll. (Or you can just recall out and come back in.)

Yes and loose 10% from the re-entry, and this for norm, hard and elite. So yes we can, but it would be better if we could use the hirelings for what they where created for...

[Montrose]

Yes and loose 10% from the re-entry, and this for norm, hard and elite. So yes we can, but it would be better if we could use the hirelings for what they where created for...

You can use a hireling for this same lever. Put the hireling at the lever (valve, technically, I believe) and make them stay there. Back away, then hit the use button.

Bonus points for clicking to summon the hireling out of that room or dismissing them before they die (you don't need them again, or if you really want them you can rujn back to the start, wait 5 min, and re-summon).

[tolana]

I don't think there is a single quest in the game that can't be soloed with the proper preparation before you enter the quest.

[voodoogroves]

I don't think there is a single quest in the game that can't be soloed with the proper preparation before you enter the quest.

Solo ... or solo-with-hireling ... big difference

[Myrddinman]

Carry a hireling or buy one off the store. What next, say how many healing potions are needed for a quest? WARNING! Mobs in this dungeon may cast the blind spell, enter without blind removal potions at your own risk!

^^this

And then don't forget to add something like, "and remember Remove Blindness potions are available for purchase in the DDO Store"

[Myrddinman]

I have to agree with the OP on this one. There's a huge difference between being able to solo an entire instance, but not be able to finish because you need a lever thrower. This happened to me more than once, but most noticeably in Shadow Knight. I was two levels bellow the quest and pretty much soloed the entire quest with what I thought was some great and careful gameplay (especially considering I had never run it before).

When I finally got stuck, I even put in a ticket request because I thought it was bugged...only to be told by a GM that I needed to have someone else with me and a hireling wouldn't do the trick. Well that was 2 hours out of my day and really sat wrong with me. I am totally fine with quests that need a party (I kinda like it even), but to experience a quest that I could solo gameplay-wise, but that I need someone for one minute is a little disappointing.

Just something that says "cannot be soloed" would be nice. No other spoilers are needed. Get a group and go for it, or skip and find something else. But to get all the way through and hit a brick wall...

[vmsbass]

Arguing whether or not they should do this is moot. It is done; it just needs to be done more thoroughly. In addition to a lot of the lower level quest mentioned so far (Xoriat, Necro, Deleras), there are two I have come across that are not marked, but do require 2 or more:

Fleshmaker's Laboratory (maybe doable without a hireling if you have like +100% speed or something).
Gianthold Tor

Someone else mentioned about how they disagree with this concept and sarcastically mused on how marking quests that require a certain stat to complete would be next. It is a lame design attempt to require a certain feature to complete a quest that the player might not have. For example, Reclamation requires a 20 str to complete. Kind of lame if you ask me. Imagine old D&D and no one in the party has the appropriate stat.

"OK then guys, " says the DM, "guess we're done here."

Make certain things like that bonus material; not required. Xoriat is a good example. If you have someone in the party with the appropriate stats, you dont have to deal with those things roaming all over.

[donfilibuster]

The "hirelings may not suffice" should be enough warning.
If one such quest like delera II don't say it then it is due a bug report.

[Phidius]

I may have missed your point, but Spies doesn't require two poeple to complete.

I just meant that if the door had a Spoiler link, I would have been able to find out that there were puzzles in the quest and how to quickly bypass them without needing to take the time to solve them.

Basically, the easy way out

.... I have yet to come across a quest that can not be run using carefully placed hirelings. This includes all of necro and deleras...

I believe you missed one. One of the pre-reqs for the Cursed Crypt (Necro 3) involves passing a gear to another person through bars after using it to unlock a lever.

As far as I know, you cannot give an item to a hireling, let alone ask for it back...

...

I think he was using Spies as simply an example of brand new content that he did not already have memorized.

Yup, you got it.

I don't think there is a single quest in the game that can't be soloed with the proper preparation before you enter the quest.

Necro 3 has such a quest... see above.

[vmsbass]

I believe you missed one. One of the pre-reqs for the Cursed Crypt (Necro 3) involves passing a gear to another person through bars after using it to unlock a lever.

I have done this one with a hireling. All you need to do is unlock the gear, but not follow through with the motion. Then a hireling can finish it when you run to the other side.

[vmsbass]

The "hirelings may not suffice" should be enough warning.
If one such quest like delera II don't say it then it is due a bug report.

The problem here is that there are two kinds of quests that say this: one that does not require two sets of hands, and one that does require two sets of hands. Dungeons need to be marked to make that distinction.

[Starshaper22]

I believe the phrasing the game currently uses is like "Caution: this is an especially challenging dungeon that might require more characters (hirelings may not suffice)"

Haha. That's not entirely accurate. I was doing And The Dead Shall Rise..or something close to that title, that lv 12 dungeon in Delera's that's in that Spire. I'm thinking it will be difficult..I busted that quest out in 28 minutes (due to me having to go afk a few times for a bit) without even losing 20% of my or my hirelings health. I did play it on normal of course and I am lv 16, but there are many other dungeons that say "of average difficulty" that are less difficult. Frankly I was surprised completely. Even the boss got owned without much trouble. I was like really? I didn't even have to go Rage on him. Course like I said I am lv 16 so maybe that had a lot to do with it. But then again other dungeons of that level have given me a harder time so I don't know.

[Zenako]

Almost all of the party size recommendations on the entry GUI are very conservative. As someone already mentioned, even that necro guest with the gears can be done by a single player (albeit with hirelings).

What becomes a bone of contention for many however, is there are many quests where with X players, a certain action is trivial to accomplish, but with less than X it might require precise timing or use of hirelings to overcome. The PIT is somewhat infamous for that. The Entry GUI IIRC says you NEED 3 or more to complete. That is completely untrue, given how often the quest is purely soloed. You do not NEED 3, 2 might be convienent to avoid having to time the jumps after turning the valves, but difinitely not 3.

I can think of only 1 quest with a Stat Rune that would prevent Completion if no one has the stats, and that would be Von3b with those INT runes. HOWEVER, with the advent of hirelings, I do believe that any WIZ hireling would easily have the INT to activate it. (I do not recall the specific GUI on that one, but IIRC it says something to the effect of a full balanced party is recommended.) If it says that, then I would read it to mean that unless I can do most of the things a full party could accomplish, via skills, spells or stats, that it would be unwise to attempt to solo such a quest.

Redemption does have the final lever to throw, and I guess it has a STR requirement, but had not run into it, since it had never been an issue and unless you are not strong enough, those kind of pop warnings never show up. Same solution is easily in place however. Now to hit a 20 STR is not that hard for a dedicated solo'er. Starting with a mere 10 STR + 2 tome +6 Item and +2 from Rage Ring gets you there. Or add in various stat pots from collectibles.

Anyone seriously trying to solo cannot build one trick ponies to succeed.

My Ranger/Rogue can solo quite well, can hit most stat runes with ease (has to work to get his CHA over 18 now, but pots can do that if needed.) It is built for soloing.

My classic cleric can solo, but again, was built as an all around character, not a limited focus.

[Azhanti]

Should the quest warn you of minimum numbers, maybe, maybe not. It should be consistent however, if quest A and quest B both need 2 player/hirelings, they both should state that, or not. I think you'd be justified in being a bit miffed if you'd just done quest A(you need 2) and got stuck in quest B (balanced party).

[Zenako]

Should the quest warn you of minimum numbers, maybe, maybe not. It should be consistent however, if quest A and quest B both need 2 player/hirelings, they both should state that, or not. I think you'd be justified in being a bit miffed if you'd just done quest A(you need 2) and got stuck in quest B (balanced party).

From my experience whenever they give a fixed number of players needed, that is because they look at the quest mechanics and determine the number of dumb warm bodies it takes to do the quest without skill or thinking. Necro 1 quest with 4 pressure plates for example. With 4 players, one stands on each and the doors open. However this quest has been purely soloed (no hirelings). Can every build solo it, nope.

If the quest GUI says balanced party that generally means something along the lines of there will be traps/locks/runes/levers etc that might might have certain requirements and that a balanced party should have no problems overcoming it.

[samthedagger]

Is it really so much of a bother to keep a hireling around in your backpack for when these (rare) situations arise? You really need do only one thing that takes maybe 2 minutes tops. Run to the entrance and summon the hireling. Bingo. Problem solved. Take the hireling to the lever, have the hireling use the lever, and then dismiss it when you're done if you want to avoid the (inevitable) hireling death penalty. Even if you plan to solo without the hireling, having one just in case is never a bad idea. And it doesn't cost a whole hell of a lot. Heck, I keep a hasting hireling in my backpack just in case I am ever shortmaning without a mage. All the hireling does is stay passive and cast haste before entering a room. It's a heckuva lot cheaper than haste pots and it makes the quest run quicker.

[vmsbass]

Is it really so much of a bother to keep a hireling around in your backpack for when these (rare) situations arise? You really need do only one thing that takes maybe 2 minutes tops. Run to the entrance and summon the hireling. Bingo. Problem solved. Take the hireling to the lever, have the hireling use the lever, and then dismiss it when you're done if you want to avoid the (inevitable) hireling death penalty. Even if you plan to solo without the hireling, having one just in case is never a bad idea. And it doesn't cost a whole hell of a lot. Heck, I keep a hasting hireling in my backpack just in case I am ever shortmaning without a mage. All the hireling does is stay passive and cast haste before entering a room. It's a heckuva lot cheaper than haste pots and it makes the quest run quicker.

Yeah, that is true. But, unfortunately, it is a lesson that needs to be learned from experience. No need to have players go through it.

It is not the same as making sure you have a blindness protection item or potion or something like that, since such a phenomenon is common to almost all dungeons, and are not required to succeed. Hirelings come off as entirely optional features, not something occasionally required to succeed.

But again, kind of moot. They already do it; just do it more consistently.

[UltraMonk2]

As some have already pointed out, some quests where people believe it cannot be soloed due to X requirements have in fact been soloed.

So that's why to me, there shouldn't be any indication that the quest requires x amount of people to complete, simply because some very imaginative people have gotten around these very problems and thus the quest is soloable (without a hireling!).

Someone mentioned Fleshmaker's, I know people who have soloed it with no hireling. Just requires good jumping skills, good coordination and haste. So why should there be a message stating that it needs 2 (or any other number) people as such a message would be incorrect?

Yes I have done quests where I have gone a fair way in only to find I couldn't complete because of a level or somesuch? My reaction? I just laughed thinking that it was a really cool idea and moved on to something else.

Like in real life, you cannot do everything by yourself, so either get a group together or just move on. Please stop trying to dumb down this game and making it easier. I love the challenge and the obstacles put in place before me.

PS: I'm very disappointed with what they are doing with Tear of Dhakaan in update 5, the shrines should stay behind locked doors and there is no need for an extra shrine in that quest. It can be completed without the use of shrines, just requires good resource management, strategy and tactics.

[samthedagger]

The game is not designed to be played solo. So if you are going to play solo, you should do your homework and prepare for contingencies. I really don't see why this is an issue.

I agree that it is a bit frustrating to have this happen, but DDO is a team game. The default assumption is that you are part of a team, in a 2-6 person party. If the quest absolutely cannot be soloed in any way the quests warn you (though it hasn't always been this way). So I think we have our bases covered.

Actually, back in the good ole' days of AD&D, having hirelings and henchmen around was the default assumption as well. Player Characters couldn't be bothered to do things like carry torches, haul around loot, poke the floor for pressure plates, pull levers back and forth, etc.

[vmsbass]

As some have already pointed out, some quests where people believe it cannot be soloed due to X requirements have in fact been soloed.

So that's why to me, there shouldn't be any indication that the quest requires x amount of people to complete, simply because some very imaginative people have gotten around these very problems and thus the quest is soloable (without a hireling!).

There is some merit to this, but I think the difference is that unlike a puzzle or any other clever strategy, unless you have the tool (i.e the hireling), which most do not think to carry around unless that is their normal solo style, you can succeed without it. Not cool in my opinion.

Someone mentioned Fleshmaker's, I know people who have soloed it with no hireling. Just requires good jumping skills, good coordination and haste. So why should there be a message stating that it needs 2 (or any other number) people as such a message would be incorrect?

It is 15 seconds before they all reset. There is absolutely no way it is being soloed without a massive run buff well beyond that of haste. I was hasted, and could easily jump the platforms, and I wasn't even close. I could only get three. So all but the most outrageously fast characters (who would probably be too high level for it anyway) could not solo it.

Yes I have done quests where I have gone a fair way in only to find I couldn't complete because of a level or somesuch? My reaction? I just laughed thinking that it was a really cool idea and moved on to something else.

Ok, that's fine. I would not expect you to be the majority here, or even close. I know what I hear on these forums, and what I know from the few friends that play this game too. None of them find it ok.

Like in real life, you cannot do everything by yourself, so either get a group together or just move on. Please stop trying to dumb down this game and making it easier. I love the challenge and the obstacles put in place before me.

No problem here either. Just don't let me waste my time with something I cannot finish.

Again, the point is moot. They already do it, just do it consistently.