Any info on guild disband and renown?

[Drfirewater79]

There was a thread i was reading this morning that i cannot find that was talking about the potential drama that could be had should a guild get disbanned ...

some good points where brought up but i cant seem to find it now


some of the points where what happens to the renown if a guild leader disbands there guild in a rage quit ....

will renown be attached to players ... so if guild leader rage quits and you have to restart the guild you dont have to start from lvl 1 again.

if you leave a guild will your renown leave with you .... or will your hard work be for nothing ?

i was hoping to hear replies on some of these topics but i apperantly i didnt sub to the thread like i intended to...

if any of these questions have been answered please point me to the thread or repeat them here ...

happy renown hunting.

[Sleepingcap]

I am not certain, but I am guessing that the renown is attached to a guild and if it is disbanded - the renown will dissapear into the void.

[Drfirewater79]

yeah that was one of the drama issues we where discussing

gonna see alot of people in up roar when leader turns into an jerk and deletes the guild after sacking the guild bank and takes your lvl 80 starship and blows it up cause he doesnt like a couple people or wants to leave the game...

I think if the renown is attached to the guild then they should eliminate the option to disband the guild ....

and instead make an option to rename the guild

and also change ranking system ...

needs to have 5 tiers

leader

first mate (lead successor)

successors (as in multiple)

officers

and CREW (not memebers)

and it should be renown based ... as well

so if leader doesnt play for a month the successors can put leadership to a vote ...

officers can vote but crew cannot ...

successors are chosen by leader

officers are the top 10 renown gatherers for the guild ....

this way ... if leader leaves the game the first mate would be temporary leader and officers and higher would vote on new leader ....

first mate would stay first mate unless chosen to lead at which time he would chose a new mate

then in order to disband the guild

a message would go down the ranks "vote for disband"

with choices

yes

and

take the reins as new guild leader.

that way people who want to leave can leave and rest can stay and vote on new leader and what not ...

this will save alot of guild drama and stop alot of people from leaving the game after there leader does something drastic like disband the guild and have people loose all there guild storage gear.

[lunaticcat]

Why over complicate this, if a guild leader wants to take his guild and run let them. Remove the disband option so the remaining members can't be hosed for all their work, however as a leader quits the guild (as opposed to a resignation) just have an option to rename the guild under the new leaders name.

Obviously if a leader is leaving on good terms (happens a lot) allow them to pass the baton without rename or changes to the existing guild....

[Deaeth]

yeah that was one of the drama issues we where discussing

gonna see alot of people in up roar when leader turns into an jerk and deletes the guild after sacking the guild bank and takes your lvl 80 starship and blows it up cause he doesnt like a couple people or wants to leave the game...

I think if the renown is attached to the guild then they should eliminate the option to disband the guild ....

and instead make an option to rename the guild

and also change ranking system ...

needs to have 5 tiers

leader

first mate (lead successor)

successors (as in multiple)

officers

and CREW (not memebers)

and it should be renown based ... as well

so if leader doesnt play for a month the successors can put leadership to a vote ...

officers can vote but crew cannot ...

successors are chosen by leader

officers are the top 10 renown gatherers for the guild ....

this way ... if leader leaves the game the first mate would be temporary leader and officers and higher would vote on new leader ....

first mate would stay first mate unless chosen to lead at which time he would chose a new mate

then in order to disband the guild

a message would go down the ranks "vote for disband"

with choices

yes

and

take the reins as new guild leader.

that way people who want to leave can leave and rest can stay and vote on new leader and what not ...

this will save alot of guild drama and stop alot of people from leaving the game after there leader does something drastic like disband the guild and have people loose all there guild storage gear.

As a Guild Leader I have issues with a LOT of your suggestions here.

First off, having officers chosen by amount of renown farmed is a horrible idea (imo). Some people, like me, have no life, and therefor can farm untolds amount of renown. That does NOT make them officer material for a successful guild.

What makes someone "officer material" is their willingness and ability to help other guildies, solve problems, assist the leader with various tasks. They have to be able to be TRUSTED!

Now, in some guilds yes it doesn't matter who's what rank and so on. But in actual "organized" guilds, who is in a position of authority DOES matter and in NO way should be determined by their ability to "farm".

I sometimes ask a lot of my officers, and sometimes it includes them having more downtime than normal members. Talking over things with the officers on decisions about the guild, having them on the guild forums = out of game time. That imo, makes them great officers. NOT that they can sit on the game for 16 hours a day and farm a crapload of renown.

I do however, agree they need to bring in more guild ranks. I do like your ideas for the rank names, However, I wish the names would be customizable. Not every guild is going to want their ranks via "shipboard" terms.

The guild disband option. Sorry but that's a risk you take in the guild you are in. I think it should stay as is. If not the guild leader can just remove everyone from the guild and disband it that way. Cuz you cannot get rid of the remove member button. I for one do NOT want to get stuck with the bad apples that do make it into the guild. So you just have to trust your guild leader to not do that. Find a guild whose leader has morals, and values. If I ever decide to leave DDO, I will be talking with my officers, to see who wants the guild. I will not in any way punish the rest of my guildies because I decided to call it quits. That's just stupid. If you are worried about your guild leader potentially doing this, then you are in the wrong guild.

[SisAmethyst]

...
Now, in some guilds yes it doesn't matter who's what rank and so on. But in actual "organized" guilds, who is in a position of authority DOES matter and in NO way should be determined by their ability to "farm".
...
I think it should stay as is. If not the guild leader can just remove everyone from the guild and disband it that way. Cuz you cannot get rid of the remove member button.
...
If you are worried about your guild leader potentially doing this, then you are in the wrong guild.

I have to agree, if there is so much dis-trust and drama in the guild, then it is the wrong place to stay anyway, and if a Guild Leader is a bad-ass he can just downgrade every officer to member or just kick them right away. If you work in a company and that company decide to live without you, you will not suddenly take over that company, regardless how hard you worked for that company!

Also to mention is that renown will DROP if you not contribute to it over the level of 25! So if the big 'farmers' of a guild will leave and no one is contributing anymore enough, the renown will vanish anyway, but the farmers will be able to fill up a new Guild in no time at all! Look at the DDO daily guild. It took the a weekend to get to level 20 and have an airship. A weekend, com-on, that is really no time and if you leave a level 50+ Guild and you have been the main contributer they will probably not stay on that level anyway.

PS: The thread you search is here

[Drfirewater79]

As a Guild Leader I have issues with a LOT of your suggestions here.

First off, having officers chosen by amount of renown farmed is a horrible idea (imo). Some people, like me, have no life, and therefor can farm untolds amount of renown. That does NOT make them officer material for a successful guild.

What makes someone "officer material" is their willingness and ability to help other guildies, solve problems, assist the leader with various tasks. They have to be able to be TRUSTED!

Now, in some guilds yes it doesn't matter who's what rank and so on. But in actual "organized" guilds, who is in a position of authority DOES matter and in NO way should be determined by their ability to "farm".

I sometimes ask a lot of my officers, and sometimes it includes them having more downtime than normal members. Talking over things with the officers on decisions about the guild, having them on the guild forums = out of game time. That imo, makes them great officers. NOT that they can sit on the game for 16 hours a day and farm a crapload of renown.

I do however, agree they need to bring in more guild ranks. I do like your ideas for the rank names, However, I wish the names would be customizable. Not every guild is going to want their ranks via "shipboard" terms.

The guild disband option. Sorry but that's a risk you take in the guild you are in. I think it should stay as is. If not the guild leader can just remove everyone from the guild and disband it that way. Cuz you cannot get rid of the remove member button. I for one do NOT want to get stuck with the bad apples that do make it into the guild. So you just have to trust your guild leader to not do that. Find a guild whose leader has morals, and values. If I ever decide to leave DDO, I will be talking with my officers, to see who wants the guild. I will not in any way punish the rest of my guildies because I decided to call it quits. That's just stupid. If you are worried about your guild leader potentially doing this, then you are in the wrong guild.

your missing the whole point ...

if you noticed there where lots of different possitions ... current officers would be successors picked and chosen by guild leaders officers would be current members and crew would be lower then members basically if you compared to current system.

you didnt read what i said at all you saw what you didnt understand and jumpped to conclusions

leader = starter of guild leader of guild blah blah blah

first mate = todays successor (or what ever you want to call it i am using ship terms cause that is what we get as our guild housing)

successors = todays officers ... leader/first mate picked ... these people can invite to guild

officers = top 10 renown earning members allowed to vote on guild issues but not able to invite new people to guild and limited access to guild base customization

crew = everyone else ..... standard members

only thing different about my system and the one we have in place is a dead beat leader cannot disband and screw everyone over

changed the names and added a section for people who actually play the game alot and would GENERALLY be officer matterial ... if you have no life and play the game all day chances are you know more about the game then the ashats who are officers in your current guild ...

persoanlly i am not an officer in my guild cause i dont want to be part of the drama ...

but the difference is its not like people who are officers are ... better players ... more orginized .... better leaders ... or anything like that .... so the tier of rank based on renown building allows for inter guild competition and shows the leader who is doing what for his guild ....

if you think your officers are the best players in you guild your prolly not a very good leader ... officer title means nothing at all in todays game ..

if your guild spends more time on the forums and less time in game i would love to know your guild name so i never invite them into my pugs .... you become a better player by playing the game not talking about it.... i do 90% of my forum talking from work or when i am sick of the game .... not when i could be in game running raids or helping guildies level.

helping guildies get there items and level is more important then officers of a guild staying on top of rumors and bS flung on the forums .

and just cause you arent a big enough ass to dump your guild doesnt mean others arent ...

i have been in many guilds that the leader was a great guy till he got screwed some how by turbine and disbanned the guild out of rage ...

if i grind out 1.5 millioin in renown and spend 5 million in plat just to have some ashat disband the guild ... that guy better hope i dont know where he lives ...


and rather then put that kind of anger and stress and then have it blasted all over the forums Turbine needs to step in and make sure the jerks dont start more hate .... and if they want to keep people in the game they are gonna need to put in a fale safe for people or your gonna see the jerk leader screw a bunch of people and they are gonna leave the game for good and never look back


I have seen it happen already and with no guild housing ... its just gonna be more dramatic and more frequent when you have more to lose.

[REALb0r3d]

I think if the renown is attached to the guild then they should eliminate the option to disband the guild ....
A guild someone pays for gets disbanded, it creates a power vacuum, a new guild leader pays for a guild, its good for Turbine. Not gonna happen.

and also change ranking system ...

needs to have 5 tiers

leader --Which you suggested be voted to stay leader if AFK for too long... how long?
Convince turbine to make guilds free, and I could see this as fair. Not gonna happen.
and it should be renown based ... as well
taking the organization reigns from the person that paid to start the guild should never happen unless Turbine makes guilds free.
so if leader doesnt play for a month the successors can put leadership to a vote ...
They can still do this, its called paying turbine to make their own guild and changing the MOTD.

Think all the other points are a combination of comments in red.
Basically its not free is my point, otherwise its a reasonably fair system with a large possibility of completely disrupting a guild if the leader is gone too long and the successors are replaced by a new evil order

[Deaeth]

your missing the whole point ...

if you noticed there where lots of different possitions ... current officers would be successors picked and chosen by guild leaders officers would be current members and crew would be lower then members basically if you compared to current system.

you didnt read what i said at all you saw what you didnt understand and jumpped to conclusions

leader = starter of guild leader of guild blah blah blah

first mate = todays successor (or what ever you want to call it i am using ship terms cause that is what we get as our guild housing)

successors = todays officers ... leader/first mate picked ... these people can invite to guild

officers = top 10 renown earning members allowed to vote on guild issues but not able to invite new people to guild and limited access to guild base customization

crew = everyone else ..... standard members

only thing different about my system and the one we have in place is a dead beat leader cannot disband and screw everyone over

changed the names and added a section for people who actually play the game alot and would GENERALLY be officer matterial ... if you have no life and play the game all day chances are you know more about the game then the ashats who are officers in your current guild ...

persoanlly i am not an officer in my guild cause i dont want to be part of the drama ...

but the difference is its not like people who are officers are ... better players ... more orginized .... better leaders ... or anything like that .... so the tier of rank based on renown building allows for inter guild competition and shows the leader who is doing what for his guild ....

if you think your officers are the best players in you guild your prolly not a very good leader ... officer title means nothing at all in todays game ..

if your guild spends more time on the forums and less time in game i would love to know your guild name so i never invite them into my pugs .... you become a better player by playing the game not talking about it.... i do 90% of my forum talking from work or when i am sick of the game .... not when i could be in game running raids or helping guildies level.

helping guildies get there items and level is more important then officers of a guild staying on top of rumors and bS flung on the forums .

and just cause you arent a big enough ass to dump your guild doesnt mean others arent ...

i have been in many guilds that the leader was a great guy till he got screwed some how by turbine and disbanned the guild out of rage ...

if i grind out 1.5 millioin in renown and spend 5 million in plat just to have some ashat disband the guild ... that guy better hope i dont know where he lives ...


and rather then put that kind of anger and stress and then have it blasted all over the forums Turbine needs to step in and make sure the jerks dont start more hate .... and if they want to keep people in the game they are gonna need to put in a fale safe for people or your gonna see the jerk leader screw a bunch of people and they are gonna leave the game for good and never look back


I have seen it happen already and with no guild housing ... its just gonna be more dramatic and more frequent when you have more to lose.

Actually, how would you remove "bad apples" from your guild? If you say boot them from guild, how are you going to stop a guild leader from booting everyone else from the guild, including your successor/officers, crew and such?

There HAS to be a way for Officers/Leader to remove people from the guild who aren't wanted/needed/desired by the guild. There is no way to implement your system fairly and still allow this to happen.

Also no way to prevent the "wrong type" of person to be an officer, with your system. What if someone who plays all day is an ass? Oh all of a sudden they get a say in how the guilds run? Although noone in the guild may respect, or even play with this person? I think not. I'll keep my current system, it's working fine and afaik our guilds all happy and enjoys being guilded with us!

[Drfirewater79]

I have to agree, if there is so much dis-trust and drama in the guild, then it is the wrong place to stay anyway, and if a Guild Leader is a bad-ass he can just downgrade every officer to member or just kick them right away. If you work in a company and that company decide to live without you, you will not suddenly take over that company, regardless how hard you worked for that company!

Also to mention is that renown will DROP if you not contribute to it over the level of 25! So if the big 'farmers' of a guild will leave and no one is contributing anymore enough, the renown will vanish anyway, but the farmers will be able to fill up a new Guild in no time at all! Look at the DDO daily guild. It took the a weekend to get to level 20 and have an airship. A weekend, com-on, that is really no time and if you leave a level 50+ Guild and you have been the main contributer they will probably not stay on that level anyway.

PS: The thread you search is here

yeah i found it thanks ...

but look at it like this ...

lets say i am a jerk leader ...

i start a guild ...

since i dont really want to have a guild .... and rather not have anyone in my guild but i invite 20 hardcore players because i know they can build renown fast ...

then when i get my ship i convince them we need this and that and they spend millioins of in game plat ....

then when i get my boat and my navigatior and so on and so forth up to lvl 25 then i drop everyone send them on there way and i cannot lose renown past lvl 25 so i am ahead and have all there gear in my ship

now lets say your one of the people i screwed over ....

you like the game hate me ... so you go on forums bad talk me ... i report you you get banned from forums

you go on game and join another guild ... two months later guild leader is a jerk worse then me leaves the game and disbands the guild ... now you have spent millions of renown and millions in plat ...

chances are your never coming back again ...

sounds impossible ...

I was on adar ... in a guild called vanguard at launch we had 40 players all good players .... guild leader disappeared (before successor time) and no officers so we ended up breaking into three guilds (imagine how screwed everyone is when three groups now have to start from stage 1 in new game) .... i then created legends of vanguard guild took as many of the old people as i could find online still after the break and that didnt jump off to one of the other two guilds .... we had 15 strong then two of our good healers moved over to questors of immortality who had more then 30 active accounts when we merged with them but half of us left the game or joinned other groups ... (this was all in the first year btw)
then leader ****ed off a great number of players some left the game forever and never came back to this day .... broke into two guilds and some of us left to join Coalition of Might which had over 40 active accounts .... after about 6 months there we had a guild squable that caused the guild to break in half half going one way and half the other ..... I stayed but then less then 6 months later we broke again due to guild politics into Sons of Might basically a side guild still connected but smaller ..... that group had an leader who left the game and in a fit disbanned the guild ...

now that is end of year two .....

if i didnt love the game i would have left then but i am a glutton for punishment

I went guildless for three months then went guild shoping went to a slow play guild so memerable i forget there name and have now been in dragons for over a year ...

so in 3 years how many times would i have lost platinum and renown i grinded for?

6 guilds in 3 years ....

if they all had a lvl 25 ship that i chipped in plat on and work hard to grind the renown for ...

would you stick around for long?

[Deaeth]

yeah i found it thanks ...

but look at it like this ...

lets say i am a jerk leader ...

i start a guild ...

since i dont really want to have a guild .... and rather not have anyone in my guild but i invite 20 hardcore players because i know they can build renown fast ...

then when i get my ship i convince them we need this and that and they spend millioins of in game plat ....

then when i get my boat and my navigatior and so on and so forth up to lvl 25 then i drop everyone send them on there way and i cannot lose renown past lvl 25 so i am ahead and have all there gear in my ship

You tell me 5 hardcore players that will join a freshly made guild, from someone they don't know, even if they do know him, know him to be a JERK LEADER?

Your scenario is as likely to happen as Turbine releasing a new raid this year!

All I've been tryin to say, is guilds is a chance you take to "enhance" your gameplay experience. If you guilds holding you back. then leave. It's only a game. It's not like you spent $100,000 to get the guild to where it is today. (if u did choose to spend RL money via turbine store, your fault). It's a FREE game, if you want it that way, otherwise it's 15 a month for vips, yes, we pay to play and have FUN! Not having fun? Find another guild. KNOW the people you are guilded with. Go out and grp with a certain guild to see how they are, how they act, how they run things, ask questions.

Pretend it's like buying a new car. You won't go into a dealership, see that nice shiny new car and go. OHHHH that's mine, i'll take it right now. You will "test drive" and sample before you make a decsion.

You won't be able to prevent bad things 100% of the time. But you can do your best to try. If your in a guild and that does happen. Sorry man, that sucks, but nothing you can do.

Also, if a guild is lets say level 80 or so. Most likely they work very well together. Cuz if you READ the Dev Diary posted. Renown cannot be "farmed" like is has been on Lamannia. After you earn so much in a day, you have to work HARDER to keep earning. So hitting level 80 isn't going to be easy at all. It's going to take a group of people who can get along, and work well together. I bet even level 20 is going to be nowhere as easy as it has been on lam. I guess we'll see.

I hope guild disbands don't happen, but regardless, we know they will. Just be careful what guild you are in.

[SisAmethyst]

yeah i found it thanks ...

...then when i get my ship i convince them we need this and that and they spend millioins of in game plat ....

then when i get my boat and my navigatior and so on and so forth up to lvl 25 then i drop everyone send them on there way and i cannot lose renown past lvl 25 so i am ahead and have all there gear in my ship

Hehe, you realy sound a bit paranoid (not meant in an offending way) anyway, the point you may miss is that except of the Airship ALL inside of the Airship will VANISH after time. So you will have after that a naked ship. The maximum Duration of a Navigator is 31 days, so if this Leader is really that bad, he will have nothing then the ship in the end and as 'DDO daily' has proven you can get a new ship in a weekend.

now lets say your one of the people i screwed over ....

you like the game hate me ... so you go on forums bad talk me ... i report you you get banned from forums

Drama happens even without the airships already. You may already have put millions of plat in the guild bank which is an alt of the Guild Leader, so where is the difference to the renown, except that I know that the Leader will LOOSE everything over time (renown, navigator, buffers) except the airship.

you go on game and join another guild ... two months later guild leader is a jerk worse then me leaves the game and disbands the guild ... now you have spent millions of renown and millions in plat ...

Sorry, but being fooled twice does not make the renown system bad. This are two different things. Sure it may happen, but if you notice that the new leader is a bigger jerk then the first one, why you dump in more plat? Also it is a plat sink anyway as all the stuff you can get in the ship you only rent for max 31 days anyway. So even if you are in holiday for a month it will be gone. So it is not a problem of the guild renown, but rather a problem of some leaders being jerks.

Also knowing that all the stuff will vanish after max. 31 days I would in your case much more prefer the renown system a it is implemented as I know if they kick me they will sooner or later not have all that nice cookies without me and to know that I only rented the stuff so in the worst case only lost the investment for this 31 days.

Ok, maybe you have payed the biggest amount of plat for the ship, but then it is again more the stuff you bought with the plat and not the renown system of the guild which makes you upset here. Because you could have as well deposited a couple of greensteal weapons in the Guild Bank without the Guild renown and Airship stuff.

...so in 3 years how many times would i have lost platinum and renown i grinded for?

6 guilds in 3 years ....

if they all had a lvl 25 ship that i chipped in plat on and work hard to grind the renown for ...

would you stick around for long?

I would say it does not matter what you put in 3 years ago as the things from that time are already accumulated. As said, except of the ship the other stuff will vanish after 31 days anyway, including the renown down to level 25. In this 31 days you will get the reward of the plat you invested by e.g. the airship buffers.
If you really concerned about this that much, create your own guild and have your own airship, be your own boss. And yes I would still stick around as I already gone through some games and some guilds as well for several reasons, but for me it is a game and if I rent an airship navigator for 31 to have a specific benefit I will do so, knowing that in 31 days I may either leave the guild or rent an new one. But I am very happy with the guild I have and it would be nice to have an Airship but it will not make me quit if it is gone.
For the Ship, well, if I would be really that much of a grinder and concerned someone could take away the ship I earned I would create my own, may take a bit longer alone or with pugs but probably still possible.

see comments in red

[Mister_Peace]

Renown farming skills are just as important for guild officership as good writing skills.

[Drfirewater79]

Think all the other points are a combination of comments in red.
Basically its not free is my point, otherwise its a reasonably fair system with a large possibility of completely disrupting a guild if the leader is gone too long and the successors are replaced by a new evil order

what are you talking about

we dont pay extra to make a guild ???

i dont understand your comments in red ... is this a free to play issue?

its all free ... there is no cost to start a guild so i have no clue how to answer you....

i pay a monthly fee ... so dont understand any pay to be leader of a guild silliness ... .and if that is the case then turbine needs to make forming a guild a free thing anyway.

[Melyc'inya]

we dont pay extra to make a guild ???

Actually, premium and free players have to buy a guild charter. It's 150 TP to get one.

[Drfirewater79]

You tell me 5 hardcore players that will join a freshly made guild, from someone they don't know, even if they do know him, know him to be a JERK LEADER?

Your scenario is as likely to happen as Turbine releasing a new raid this year!

All I've been tryin to say, is guilds is a chance you take to "enhance" your gameplay experience. If you guilds holding you back. then leave. It's only a game. It's not like you spent $100,000 to get the guild to where it is today. (if u did choose to spend RL money via turbine store, your fault). It's a FREE game, if you want it that way, otherwise it's 15 a month for vips, yes, we pay to play and have FUN! Not having fun? Find another guild. KNOW the people you are guilded with. Go out and grp with a certain guild to see how they are, how they act, how they run things, ask questions.

Pretend it's like buying a new car. You won't go into a dealership, see that nice shiny new car and go. OHHHH that's mine, i'll take it right now. You will "test drive" and sample before you make a decsion.

You won't be able to prevent bad things 100% of the time. But you can do your best to try. If your in a guild and that does happen. Sorry man, that sucks, but nothing you can do.

Also, if a guild is lets say level 80 or so. Most likely they work very well together. Cuz if you READ the Dev Diary posted. Renown cannot be "farmed" like is has been on Lamannia. After you earn so much in a day, you have to work HARDER to keep earning. So hitting level 80 isn't going to be easy at all. It's going to take a group of people who can get along, and work well together. I bet even level 20 is going to be nowhere as easy as it has been on lam. I guess we'll see.

I hope guild disbands don't happen, but regardless, we know they will. Just be careful what guild you are in.

let me throw out some comments about this same topic that have people on lama server thinking (and taking bets) on how bad its gonna be

impact

most guilds are nothing more then glorified pugs as is.

dragonhyde

I expect to see guild drama start as early as the first weekend after

these are just two out of a bunch of lama beta testers who all see this renown and guild leader dictatorship being a major issue and enough drama to cause people to leave the game for good.

it nice that some of you have the confidence in your guilds but a change like i propose doesnt effect YOUR guilds ...

it effects the guilds of people who joined the guild so they can get into more raids ... or joined the guild cause they have one or two friends in it ...

not everyone likes everyone in the guild .. and once guild leaders and officers start being the only ones who get to design bases and what not and members get left out of the fun ... they are gonna leave ... I for one wont farm a lick sent of renown if I dont have the up most confidence in my ENTIRE guild .. not just the leader cause i run epics daily and plan to double my epic runs in the next update because of shard fragments and renown.

the tiered system including a sub system that is renown based is the fairest system i could come up with ...

if a leader wishes to disband the guild as is bam everyone is gone and lost everything

...........

one thing i would add to my system to fix the disband by deleting one person at a time situation

is a vote system for successors and leader only

so if leader wants to kick a player from guild he has to have his senate of successors agree (at least one will have to be online but only one)

if there are no successors then he will have to make one to keep it fair.

............

with my system in place you eliminate the potential for drama

...........

if you think you have a better solution i would love to hear it.

and saying "screw everyone if i want to disband my guild and screw them all ... I will"

well please at least post the name of your guild and server so the people know not to join.

[Drfirewater79]

Actually, premium and free players have to buy a guild charter. It's 150 TP to get one.

that is stupid .... turbine needs to get rid of that ... guild forming is essential to free to players and premiums so they can group together and stop bugging the vets ...

but that is an issue that should be polled and mentioned on its own ...


its stupid to charge people for the right to start a group ..... its kinda anti mmo isnt it?

[Drfirewater79]

see comments in red

Hehe, you realy sound a bit paranoid (not meant in an offending way) anyway, the point you may miss is that except of the Airship ALL inside of the Airship will VANISH after time. So you will have after that a naked ship. The maximum Duration of a Navigator is 31 days, so if this Leader is really that bad, he will have nothing then the ship in the end and as 'DDO daily' has proven you can get a new ship in a weekend.

1) it took ddo daily (the largest guild on lama) longer then a weekend i was on lama all week and saw at least 6 people from ddo daily guild there before they posted getting there first ship.

Duration or amenities like navigator is fine but if you can farm enough on your own to purchase another one then it still leaves the guild destruction as an ashats way of ruining and taking advantage of a flawed system.

Drama happens even without the airships already. You may already have put millions of plat in the guild bank which is an alt of the Guild Leader, so where is the difference to the renown, except that I know that the Leader will LOOSE everything over time (renown, navigator, buffers) except the airship.

2) Yes the difference is that guild drama now doesnt cost you months (or weeks depending on the guild and activeness of players) worth of renown and plat to maintain. And i have NEVER nor will i ever give all my plat or items to one person to hold for me ... that is silly.

and renown doesnt drop till after lvl 25 ... for someone who runs epic alot that renown to hold even lvl 30 steady could be doable since epic drops 500 renown per package (renown package not every package sadly some dont drop any renown or fragments)

Sorry, but being fooled twice does not make the renown system bad. This are two different things. Sure it may happen, but if you notice that the new leader is a bigger jerk then the first one, why you dump in more plat? Also it is a plat sink anyway as all the stuff you can get in the ship you only rent for max 31 days anyway. So even if you are in holiday for a month it will be gone. So it is not a problem of the guild renown, but rather a problem of some leaders being jerks.

Also knowing that all the stuff will vanish after max. 31 days I would in your case much more prefer the renown system a it is implemented as I know if they kick me they will sooner or later not have all that nice cookies without me and to know that I only rented the stuff so in the worst case only lost the investment for this 31 days.

Ok, maybe you have payed the biggest amount of plat for the ship, but then it is again more the stuff you bought with the plat and not the renown system of the guild which makes you upset here. Because you could have as well deposited a couple of greensteal weapons in the Guild Bank without the Guild renown and Airship stuff.

often you dont know the leader is a jerk for a long time ... in one of the above mentioned guilds i was in i partied with the guild leader daily in raids ... didnt know he was an ass until he booted two people both officers for discussing how raid loot should be dealt with WITHIN GUILD .... as in if full guild group raid and someone wants it Need before greed and then roll ... or waiting list style sign up and first on list gets the items and continue to farm as a guild till all get what they need (even after you get your item)

and bam no discussion no real reason but because it became a heated debate (not a fight) he kicked the two people who where championing either side ... and that caused a big rift that eventually destroyed the guild.

all be it that i didnt know about the 31 day limit on guild amenities cause my lama guild is not past lvl 4 yet since its just two of us and i am the only one who frequents the guild.

but still the issue is more at that point if its maintainable and how screwed is someone who gets kicked from a guild after they do all the hard work?

is it not fair that the guy who does the most renown farming for the guild be rewarded in some way ... like officer ship and ability to add and remove amenities from guild ship?

I guess the problem here is i am speaking from a part time hardcore players perspective (3-6 hours a day after work and all day weekends) who plans to farm minimum of 1k renown a day and more on weekends while i know for a fact some of my guilds officers would be lucky to farm 300 a day and they will get all the fun of guild base customization on my dollar.

then if they decide to kick me (unlikely senario as i get along with most of them well enough) or disband the guild i would have to start all over again with a new group or new guild from scratch.

I cannot see how you guys cannot see that this makes the GUILD System flawed (not the renown system cept maybe the fact that a player cannot take his earned renown with him if he chooses to leave)

and your last point is a bigger issue ... can you imagine having greensteel stuff in the guild bank when the guild gets disbanned ....

MY GOD!!!!!

at least they could do is make it that any items that formerly belonged to you return to you in a special bank slot like TR's get should the guild get disbanned or you leave your guild ...

this way you dont get screwed out of your hard work grinding items too.

[Drfirewater79]

Renown farming skills are just as important for guild officership as good writing skills.

I would (and have) argued that renown farming skills are maybe even the most important for guild officership.

my spelling sucks personally ... maybe that is why i never wanted to be an officer in my last two guilds.

[REALb0r3d]

that is stupid .... turbine needs to get rid of that ... guild forming is essential to free to players and premiums so they can group together and stop bugging the vets ...

Some people seem a little elitist eh?