do violent games 'create' violent people?

[dranreb]

Violent games do NOT "create" violent ******* people!!!

If you even ******* insinuate such a thing, I will ******* come over there and kick your ***!!!!

Listen, you little snot-nosed ******* of a waste of ***** ****** **** ********* **** ******* *** ** **** ****** **** ****** **************

I mean, seriously? By coming here, are you trying to say DDO is a violent game?

Here's some news, pal: **** you, and **** the ******* horse you ********* **** *** ******** ** ** ******** **** **** your mom **** ******* *** ** ******* ****

Some people....

[phalaeo]

No.

[gott_ist_tot]

Wow, what a coincidence. I've just come back from the restroom whre i was... um... Reading a short column just on this subject in a Polish magazine 'fantastyka' (short scifi & fantasy stories).

The punchline was, and I agree with it, that media create the hype. When brother kills a brother, mother throws infant out of the window or whatever, it's always circumstances. Video game, horror movie or McDonalds. How about a novel idea that people are responsible for their own actions?

People are killing and getting killed every day, old school style with an axe and a knife, no art inspiration needed. If one wants to kill someone, they will. The 'inspiration' will be produced before or afterwards, sometimes during the act, but the harm has been done before. If kids mutilate someone with a car 'because of' carmageddon or GTA... If they werent exposed to the games they would eventually push someone from the block roof to see how he falls.

Having said that... For a violent man, video game can be a trigger. But so can be your looking at him 'the wrong way'. And in either case, the responsibility is his, not the circumstances'.

[phillymiket]

Violent games do NOT "create" violent ******* people!!!

If you even ******* insinuate such a thing, I will ******* come over there and kick your ***!!!!

Listen, you little snot-nosed ******* of a waste of ***** ****** **** ********* **** ******* *** ** **** ****** **** ****** **************

I mean, seriously? By coming here, are you trying to say DDO is a violent game?

Here's some news, pal: **** you, and **** the ******* horse you ********* **** *** ******** ** ** ******** **** **** your mom **** ******* *** ** ******* ****

Some people....

Dr. Dranreb!

I didn't know you played DDO!

Hey while I have you - Can I push back my Wed therapy session a few hours to 2:00?
We can just skip till next week if it's not free.
Thanks.

[Muldamai]

I hear when people who use the same avatar violence occurs when they meet.....just saying......

I remember a case back around 1979-82, two brother killed themselves, D&D was blamed. A little digging into the story.....the brother were into Satanism, and used D&D to act out those fantasies. They enjoyed playing albums backwards looking for backmasking aka Stairway to Heaven. So one night, after smoking a lot of pot, and downing a 5th of JD, they decide to kill themselves. So obviously D&D is the reason they killed themselves, not lack of parental control at all.......

A more personal note, while in high school, there was this one guy who played D&D, had to have the 'bestest' character, good at everything, Chaotic Evil and was a loner. His goal after graduation was to join the Marines. Needless to say, he couldn't pass the psych eval to get in, and when he was 20, he ate a gun.

I have yet to see or meet someone who plays D&D or video games that has problems who didn't have them before getting involved in social activities of any kind. I can believe violent games can produce some desensitization in real life, but how much is subjective.

[Hjarki]

Video games are violent because violence is a useful narrative tool - it ramps up the drama. But you could just as easily make DDO a game about cleaning your room. People would wield their Epic +5 Brooms of Cleaning to destroy Dust Bunnies. It just wouldn't be all that popular because cleaning your room lacks drama.

Nor does this violence necessarily have to be 'violent'. Consider the difference between the classic arcade games Asteroids and Space Invaders. In Asteroids, you're merely clearing a navigational obstacle by destroying inanimate objects. In Space Invaders, you're slaughtering en masse members of an alien society that would have no doubt been peaceful trading partners if you had bothered to open a dialogue instead of just blindly opening fire on them.

Yet from a technical standpoint, the games are fairly similar. You move your ship around and blow stuff up.

So really you can't say there is any difference between a video game using such narrative tools and any other form of entertainment. Since we've survived centuries of people wanting to sell body parts due to Merchant of Venice, revolt against legitimate political leadership due to Hamlet and live in Scotland due to MacBeth, I imagine we can survive a few centuries of people wanting to rid the world of orcs.

[Angelus_dead]

hey guys (and gals)..i am doing a paper for my english class on the topic that "Violent Video Games do not Promote Violence"

It's funny, but they do encourage violence in people, but don't promote violence.

That is, a society with games and movies depicting violence has less violence going on, because those entertainments provide a diversion (in the same way that air conditioners reduce violence).

But as military instructors know, someone who has rehearsed shooting at human-like targets in a game will be better at it than those who haven't. It's not a matter of learned skill (because mouse clicking isn't similar to shooting a real gun)- instead it's about the inclination to shoot at someone.

[phillymiket]

I hear when people who use the same avatar violence occurs when they meet.....just saying......I remember a case back around 1979-82

I think your Avatar theory has a few holes in it but the D&D hysteria was so true. 60 minutes, local news, everyone hopped on that bandwagon. Why? It gets viewers. Producers slap together "the show any parent can't afford to miss", throw in a tele-movie staring Tom Hanks and you have a Big Stinking Deal over a Whole Lotta Nothin'. Remember the Satan Worshiping Epidemic a few years after? Geraldo Rivera whipped everyone into a frenzy over these "nut cases" who sacrifice infants to the Devil. As it turns out it just wasn't happening. Turns out Satanists are mostly peaceful Atheists thumbing their nose at putzes. People will sell you anything if you're dumb enough to buy it.

So really you can't say there is any difference between a video game using such narrative tools and any other form of entertainment. Since we've survived centuries of people wanting to sell body parts due to Merchant of Venice, revolt against legitimate political leadership due to Hamlet and live in Scotland due to MacBeth, I imagine we can survive a few centuries of people wanting to rid the world of orcs.

That is so awesome. Although, after reading Shakespeare I did learn of the importance of protecting our borders against witches, ghosts, fairies and nymphs. Never know.

Wow, what a coincidence. I've just come back from the restroom whre i was... um...

Cartman? I thought you played WoW.

[Thrudh]

hey guys (and gals)..i am doing a paper for my english class on the topic that "Violent Video Games do not Promote Violence". I thought i might start a thread to get your guys opinions on the matter. So feel free to post what you think of the matter, and if you have any other information that can help me with this paper, post that too.

All help is appreciated, whether you believe games promote violence or not.

thanks for the help!!

What video games did Hitler or Genghis Khan play?

Have you looked at the history of the world? How long have video games been around? How long has violence been around?

[vVAnjilaVv]

Pfft...no, if anything they give people a place to vent their violent tendencies in a safe spot.

Of course their will be the naive people saying that if their child was never exposed to violence then it would make them violent...those are the same people who all own basements and keep their children locked up in some form or another.

IMO, it's not the people who vent that are the most violent, it's the dips that try to be some superior being and better than everyone else......hold it all in and then one day just explode and cause way more damage than a normal ventilated person ever would.

[vVAnjilaVv]

What video games did Hitler or Genghis Khan play?

It's a well known fact Genghis played them on his abacus and Hitler was in coordination with Einstein inventing Pong.

[phillymiket]

Of course their will be the naive people saying that if their child was never exposed to violence then it would make them violent...

Yes true,true.
Unfortunately, when tragedies occur people are so upset, understandably, that they seek any reason - anything - to explain why this has happened to their child. The media chimes in. "Action Groups" pour money into funding "studies' to arrive at conclusions they've already reached. The "scientists", well, they like funding. And if not them they'll find someone else to reach said conclusions. Bam. Insta-stupidity. (see flow chart someone provided on the first page)

Edit - Sorry Anjila. I think I got your theme color wrong :P

[Kominalito]

i would point out that you can't really know. we have never had such tangible VR as we do at this moment, and waiting a year, it will be more tangible than it is now. we dont know what that effect is.

having said that, chairman mao didnt need GTA to do what he did.

and to flip flop - you need to figure in the status quo's mental stability, or ability to handle life+violent video games.

[dranreb]

Dr. Dranreb!

I didn't know you played DDO!

Hey while I have you - Can I push back my Wed therapy session a few hours to 2:00?
We can just skip till next week if it's not free.
Thanks.

Just call me Dr. Denis Leary.

"I'm just not happy." Shut the **** up, allright? That's the name of my new book, "Shut the **** Up, by Doctor Denis Leary. A revolutionary new form of therapy." I'm gonna have my patients come in. "Doctor, I.." "Shut the **** up, next!" "I don't feel so.." "Shut the **** up, next!" "He made me feel so much better about myself, you know? He just told me to shut the **** up and nobody had ever told me that before. I feel so much better now."

[AyumiAmakusa]

There are certain people in this world who are genetically inclined to be violent. But this in itself does not make an individual violent. Many factors such as bad upbringing, childhood trauma, stress at work, stress at home, stress in general, abuse, social isolation, etc contribute to people being violent. Violent games are a way for some people to release stress. If a person who plays a violent game gets the urge to be violent, but does not do it, it is self-restraint. If said person starts shooting people however, it means that they have had the urge to be violent to begin with, whether they are aware of it or not (The subconscious can be a b****). It's like a gun, normal people do not get the urge to start killing stuff with it, but if someone does it, they would have already had the intention to shoot people. By holding a gun (playing a game), you cannot suddenly turn violent, the urge to shoot people may be there, but non-violent people just wouldn't do it.

There was a case (I don't have proof but hear me out) where a child had brought a gun to school and shot several of his classmates. The way he was holding the gun and shooting people, was similar to how you would hold a gun in an arcade. Just stand, point, and shoot. For adults, it is hard to 'make' a person violent just by letting them play violent games. However, for children, some of them lack a sense of reality and are not capable of distinguishing between reality and fantasy. Violent games might convince children that what they're doing, in this case shooting people, may be acceptable but not make them violent. This particular child didn't know that shooting his classmates was something dangerous.

In truth, violent games cannot make someone violent but they can act as the 'trigger' so to speak in unleashing one's violent urges. Violent games have a far greater effect on children and that is why most violent games have a '18 and above' rating.

I hope this helps.

[phillymiket]

Maybe you're right. I don't know.

This particular child didn't know that shooting his classmates was something dangerous.

I just don't think that the world can be nerfed enough that a child who is so dissociated from reality that he "wouldn't know shooting his classmates was dangerous". Can they be totally protected from themselves(or us from them)? I'm not a doctor but that would be a pretty serious mental disturbance would it not? Isn't that a sociopath? Would not such a serious condition be triggered by any number of other factors? I just find it hard to swallow that there are even that many kids who don't recognize other people are hurt just like they are. I find it harder to swallow that someone would not be recognized as being so disturbed. Wouldn't that same child be hurting and killing animals and starting fires and other classic warning signs? I don't know, again I'm not a Doctor.

This Violent games have a far greater effect on children and that is why most violent games have a '18 and above' rating.

Disturbing imagery is, well, disturbing and frightening to children so I have no problem with Rated M for Mature or PG-13 restrictions on stuff. I just think it's a rather broad jump to say that those images CAUSE violence. As if someone not prone to violence would suddenly become violent. Or that someone prone to violence would have been just fine if it weren't for that dang Schwarzenegger film.

Don't know, maybe there is something there.

But I really believe that people do a great disservice by latching on to the fact that someone was fascinated by the Matrix films and wore long black coats before they walked into school and killed folks rather then look for reasonable causes for their actions.

I also think the "ban it all" crowd needs to not mind my business when they want to pass their laws for the tiny number of cases where it may be a problem.

Then there is the reverse affect where the "explicit lyrics" label and the "Rated M" label actually becomes a DRAW for kids and with absentee parenting (probably more a factor in the violence IMHO) there is no problem actually getting the games/CDs or what have you that the warning has made more desirable.

Then there's the factor of over indulgence when an overly sheltered kid is finally (and inevitably) exposed to the taboo thing. In college the kids who had the biggest problems with binge drinking and sexual promiscuity were the kids who had been not exposed to it at all. It was a common joke on campus that the small town preachers son type was the one who was face down-pants down at the end of the party while for the rest of us it wasn't that big a thing.

It's complicated but I think the "Tipper Gore" types don't know what they are talking about and just want to reach their meddling hands into everyone's life. If reasonable studies show a demonstrable link between something, anything, and danger to kids then I'm all for keeping it out of their hands. I'm not aware that the link video games=violent behavior has been shown.
But that's my 2 cents only.

[Merlocke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBxFM...eature=related

[REALb0r3d]

No.
http://bluntobject.files.wordpress.c...encegraph1.jpg

[phillymiket]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBxFM...eature=related

ROTFL
What the heck was that?
LOL

Thanks for the chuckles +1 for you!

[AyumiAmakusa]

Maybe you're right. I don't know.

I just don't think that the world can be nerfed enough that a child who is so dissociated from reality that he "wouldn't know shooting his classmates was dangerous" can be protected (or us from them). I'm not a doctor but that would be a pretty serious mental disturbance would it not? Isn't that a sociopath? Would not such a serious condition be triggered by any number of other factors? I just find it hard to swallow that there are even that many kids who don't recognize other people are hurt just like they are. I find it harder to swallow that someone would not be recognized as being so disturbed. Wouldn't that same child be hurting and killing animals and starting fires and other classic warning signs? I don't know, again I'm not a Doctor.


Disturbing imagery is, well, disturbing and frightening to children so I have no problem with Rated M for Mature or PG-13 restrictions on stuff. I just think it's a rather broad jump to say that those images CAUSE violence. As if someone not prone to violence would suddenly become violent. Or that someone prone to violence would have been just fine if it weren't for that dang Schwarzenegger film.

Don't know, maybe there something there.

But I really believe that people do a great disservice by latching on to the fact that someone was fascinated by the Matrix films and wore long black coats before they walked into school and killed folks rather then look for reasonable causes for their actions.

I also think the "ban it all" crowd needs to not mind my business when they want to pass their laws for the tiny number of cases where it may be a problem.

Then there is the reverse affect where the "explicit lyrics" label and the "Rated M" label actually becomes a DRAW for kids and with absentee parenting (probably more a factor in the violence IMHO) there is no problem actually getting the games/CDs or what have you that the warning has made more desirable.

Then there's the factor of over indulgence when an overly sheltered kid is finally (and inevitably) exposed to the taboo thing. In college the kids who had the biggest problems with binge drinking and sexual promiscuity were the kids who had been not exposed to it at all. It was a common joke on campus that the small town preachers son type was the one who was face down-pants down at the end of the party while for the rest of us it wasn't that big a thing.

It's complicated but I think the "Tipper Gore" types don't know what they are talking about and just want to reach their meddling hands into everyone's life. If reasonable studies show a demonstrable link between something, anything, and danger to kids then I'm all for keeping it out of their hands. I'm not aware that the link video games=violent behavior has been shown.
But that's my 2 cents only.

The post I made about a child not knowing that shooting his classmates is bad is real. This happens in real life. Children who grow up in war-ing countries experience this. They are called Child-Soldiers. Children in these areas grow up being taught to shoot with guns and they show no empathy or feeling when killing. Now, in everyday suburban lifestyle, this doesn't happen. But children are highly susceptible to these kind of things. That is why that child didn't know it was wrong. Nobody (I think) specifically said that 'Killing people is bad'. Add a video game that depicts you shooting someone and scoring points for it, the child will start getting the wrong idea.

As for your comments, I mentioned that other factors contribute to someone being violent. Violent games alone do not make someone violent. Really it's just ridiculous to say that games like these make people violent. As for the comments on Taboo, I agree. The more something is forbidden, the higher the appeal is to kids. But at least with the Mature Rating, there will be less kids who are exposed to it. There are some things that kids should not be exposed to until they are ready (Such as Santa is not real, Sex is fun, People abuse drugs so don't do it). Now, not all kids are like that but the chance that some kids might start being violent (whether they know it or not) is there, so people tend to PREVENT before trying to CURE.

I for one want to be able to buy some violent games but the current Australian Censorship isn't allowing that to happen anytime soon....