do violent games 'create' violent people?

[phillymiket]

The post I made about a child not knowing that shooting his classmates is bad is real. This happens in real life.

Disturbed children are real. Agreed. Normal children should not have to live in a world designed for disturbed kids.

Children who grow up in war-ing countries experience this. They are called Child-Soldiers.

Those kids must be indoctrinated into the violence with real life violence and even drugs, threats against their families or the killing of their families. This is because IMO kids aren't naturally prone to go a'killin' just because someone hands them a gun and says it's ok.

Nobody (I think) specifically said that 'Killing people is bad'.

I don't think most kids need to be told that (not that you shouldn't). Read Blackbeard to a kid and he or she freaks out when the door is opened to the severed head because they naturally recognize that murder is wrong.

I for one want to be able to buy some violent games but the current Australian Censorship isn't allowing that to happen anytime soon....

Well as long as that infinitesimally small group of kids is protected from one of a myriad of "triggers" it's all worth it isn't it?

I'll just agree to disagree.

I'll respectfully and dutifully read your rebuttal but am not going to rebut myself as this could go round and round for ever and ever.

Thanks for the interesting debate.

[AyumiAmakusa]

Yup it can go on and on forever. But about kids, it does not come naturally that killing is bad. Try explaining the concept of death of a 4 year old. I'll bet you that most people would say 'He's just going to a far away place but we cannot visit him for a very long time'. Human emotion and empathy is not natural instinct. Our natural instinct is to kill and survive. Let's not get into that. It'll go on for pages.

[petegunn]

Philly the kid you're describing is showing signs of psychopathy meaning they're more than likely born with the disorder, so as others have stated they'll be a danger anyway regardless of video games. Sociopaths have a tendancy to develop through their enviornment.

[AyumiAmakusa]

Philly the kid you're describing is showing signs of psychopathy meaning they're more than likely born with the disorder, so as others have stated they'll be a danger anyway regardless of video games. Sociopaths have a tendancy to develop through their enviornment.

I think you're talking about my quote but a child does not have to be born with a disorder to grow up violent. Teaching children empathy and morals is important for normal development. They do not know this by themselves.

[Jendrak]

The post I made about a child not knowing that shooting his classmates is bad is real. This happens in real life. Children who grow up in war-ing countries experience this. They are called Child-Soldiers. Children in these areas grow up being taught to shoot with guns and they show no empathy or feeling when killing. Now, in everyday suburban lifestyle, this doesn't happen. But children are highly susceptible to these kind of things. That is why that child didn't know it was wrong. Nobody (I think) specifically said that 'Killing people is bad'. Add a video game that depicts you shooting someone and scoring points for it, the child will start getting the wrong idea.

I was going to make a big post about how parenting and teaching your children right from wrong is responsable (aside from a mental illness) for their behavior and provide an example but you already did it for me.


Bottom line is that parents are responsable for their children. Good or bad if the parents arent takeing the time to actually raise their children then what you end up with is an almost feral attitude (this is bothering me so ill kill it) and nobody is to blame except the parents.

[PersonaJXT]

There's no real simple answer to this but...

Violent video games don't directly cause people to become violent. There's no proof of that at all. Yes, anything violent at all can prime people to act more violently (as evidenced in numerous studies predating video games), but do violent video games cause people to become more violent then say viewing a violent movie or seeing a violent image?

Not really, no.

It would be negligent to say that they can't cause violent actions as violent video games do have a certain increased interaction with the person playing the game, and there is always a chance of children picking up certain queues from watching violent acts (as they do learn a lot from watching, thus the need for proper parental supervision). But it is in no real way more effective than any other medium. Violent video games do not cause people to go out and commit violent acts anymore than any other image of violence would.

So the question isn't whether violent video games can create violent people (because they can, just like movies, books, etc.) but whether they're LIKELY to create violent people. And the answer to that is a definitive no. Any emotionally and mentally stable person is able to form his/her own conclusions and react accordingly. It would take an extreme level of immersion in a violent video game in order for the video game to have any real effect on a person's actions - a level of immersion that would pretty much require an underdeveloped or handicapped mind.

[AyumiAmakusa]

It would take an extreme level of immersion in a violent video game in order for the video game to have any real effect on a person's actions - a level of immersion that would pretty much require an underdeveloped or handicapped mind.

Or re-runs of Sesame Street on a 21 year old.

[phillymiket]

I hear you AyumiAmakusa.
Thanks for the correction on socio vs pscho. petegunn.

This has to be the politest "Flame War" evah in hiztry of teh internetz.

[Aesop]

I'd say no.

1. Violent games do not create violent people
2. People may be ATTRACTED to violent games
3. Violent people may be prone to being ATTRACTED to violent games
4. Violent people may even MAKE violent games

Aesop

[AyumiAmakusa]

I hear you AyumiAmakusa.
Thanks for the correction on socio vs pscho. petegunn.

This has to be the politest "Flame War" evah in hiztry of teh internetz.

This isn't even a Flame War . It's a debate on violent games. No point getting all personal and *ahem* violent about it. Lol.

[phillymiket]

This isn't even a Flame War . It's a debate on violent games. No point getting all personal and *ahem* violent about it. Lol.

DID I GET PERSONAL!!!!! DID I GET VIOLENT!!!
PEW!PEW!PEW!PEW!RAT-A-TAT-A-TAT!PEW!PEW!PEW!PEW!PEW! PYEEEEEeeeeeewwww BCHUUUUSCHHH!!!!
Guess I showed you I'm not violent. Ha!
Joking of course. I loves me a good rational back in forth between nice people.

[Merlocke]

ROTFL
What the heck was that?
LOL

Thanks for the chuckles +1 for you!

The L.A.I.R.E. battle scene from Role Models.

[Burtle]

Is it just me or did this thread derail from it's original post?

On that note:

but hey that's just my two cent's/copper...

[AyumiAmakusa]

Is it just me or did this thread derail from it's original post?

On that note:


but hey that's just my two cent's/copper...

OMG!! I LOVE EXPLOSM COMICS!!! BEST WEB COMIC EVER!!! DAVE, MATT, ROB and KRIS ARE GENIUSES!!

How's that for derailing the thread?

[Burtle]

OMG!! I LOVE EXPLOSM COMICS!!! BEST WEB COMIC EVER!!! DAVE, MATT, ROB and KRIS ARE GENIUSES!!

How's that for derailing the thread?

It wasn't.

[AyumiAmakusa]

It wasn't.

Technically we're already derailing 'cause we're talking about other stuff~~

[Bronko]

hey guys (and gals)..i am doing a paper for my english class on the topic that "Violent Video Games do not Promote Violence". I thought i might start a thread to get your guys opinions on the matter. So feel free to post what you think of the matter, and if you have any other information that can help me with this paper, post that too.

All help is appreciated, whether you believe games promote violence or not.

thanks for the help!!

There is a causal link between violence in video games and violence in society. If anyone disagrees with this they are kidding themselves and I will gladly accept all flames/attacks in contrast to my statement of fact.

I would suggest that jackson117 read up on such definitive works as Stop Teaching our Kids to Kill or it's precursor On Killing by Lt. Col. David Grossman. You can also read up on such programs as the CeaseFire program by Dr. Gary ****kin in Chicago for starters.

I studied Col. Grossman's work in recruit training and I'll tell you without hesitation that I didn't believe it at first. But the reality is that we are inadvertantly using Operant Conditioning to train kids to kill. We are in fact giving them the same training that we get in law enforcement and the military and we don't realize it.

I had the priviledge of meeting Col. Grossman at one of his lectures. It was there that he emphasized, "you can't just MSU. You can't just Make Sh*t Up. The research is in. The facts are there for all to see. There is an increase in violence in society and we can corrolate it to the source."

The AMA in it's report to Congress stood up with the American Society of Child Psychologists and many other national scientific and research bodies to present the facts but nobody really seemed to listen. More school shootings continue to happen and still the public doesn't listen. Even here in Canada we are feeling the effects of what we've sowed in terms of media violence and still people won't listen. It reminds me of a ostarich putting it's head in the sand sometimes.

If the OP wants more sources to back my claim that there is indeed a link between media and video game violence and societal violence I'd be happy to provide them. To those that have a dissenting opinion I encourage you to provide me the sources that back your claim.

[cdemeritt]

Yup it can go on and on forever. But about kids, it does not come naturally that killing is bad. Try explaining the concept of death of a 4 year old. I'll bet you that most people would say 'He's just going to a far away place but we cannot visit him for a very long time'. Human emotion and empathy is not natural instinct. Our natural instinct is to kill and survive. Let's not get into that. It'll go on for pages.

But here is where it all goes wrong, in my opinion... Parental instincts are to protect their children... often instead of trying to explain it to the 4 year old, they pretend it is something else... How many parents have said a beloved pet "went to live on a farm where it will be happier" rather than making said child experience the harsh truth of death? yes a 4 year old might not really understand death, but saying he's 4 so we won't expose him to the truth....

My Grandfather was killed by a gunshot wound (self-inflicted... Deliberate or not: I still don't know the Truth) on Thanksgiving day in 1980... I was at his house for thanksgiving that day... But because I was only 6 at the time, it was deemed the I was "too young" to handle the truth, and they tried to hide the truth from myself and my brother, even keeping us from attending the funeral (was not the first Grandparent's funeral I had attended). Over the years I've put the pieces together, and it is the one thing I'm still upset with my family over, not telling us the Truth, and the family still won't talk to me about it.

As painful as death can be, it is part of life. Even Children of a very young age, who might not understand what you are trying to say need to experience it.

As for Violence. The Harsh Truth is the world (natural and modern) are very Violent and dangerous places, filled with predators and dangers that must be faced. What seperates most people from that is our ability to recognize the difference between right/wrong, and how to control our instincts.

[petegunn]

There is a causal link between violence in video games and violence in society. If anyone disagrees with this they are kidding themselves and I will gladly accept all flames/attacks in contrast to my statement of fact.

I would suggest that jackson117 read up on such definitive works as Stop Teaching our Kids to Kill or it's precursor On Killing by Lt. Col. David Grossman. You can also read up on such programs as the CeaseFire program by Dr. Gary ****kin in Chicago for starters.

I studied Col. Grossman's work in recruit training and I'll tell you without hesitation that I didn't believe it at first. But the reality is that we are inadvertantly using Operant Conditioning to train kids to kill. We are in fact giving them the same training that we get in law enforcement and the military and we don't realize it.

I had the priviledge of meeting Col. Grossman at one of his lectures. It was there that he emphasized, "you can't just MSU. You can't just Make Sh*t Up. The research is in. The facts are there for all to see. There is an increase in violence in society and we can corrolate it to the source."

The AMA in it's report to Congress stood up with the American Society of Child Psychologists and many other national scientific and research bodies to present the facts but nobody really seemed to listen. More school shootings continue to happen and still the public doesn't listen. Even here in Canada we are feeling the effects of what we've sowed in terms of media violence and still people won't listen. It reminds me of a ostarich putting it's head in the sand sometimes.

If the OP wants more sources to back my claim that there is indeed a link between media and video game violence and societal violence I'd be happy to provide them. To those that have a dissenting opinion I encourage you to provide me the sources that back your claim.

I see what you done there but! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQezXbiroiE debate that!! how do you like those apples

[lolwatboomer]

There is a causal link between violence in video games and violence in society. If anyone disagrees with this they are kidding themselves and I will gladly accept all flames/attacks in contrast to my statement of fact.

I would suggest that jackson117 read up on such definitive works as Stop Teaching our Kids to Kill or it's precursor On Killing by Lt. Col. David Grossman. You can also read up on such programs as the CeaseFire program by Dr. Gary ****kin in Chicago for starters.

I studied Col. Grossman's work in recruit training and I'll tell you without hesitation that I didn't believe it at first. But the reality is that we are inadvertantly using Operant Conditioning to train kids to kill. We are in fact giving them the same training that we get in law enforcement and the military and we don't realize it.

I had the priviledge of meeting Col. Grossman at one of his lectures. It was there that he emphasized, "you can't just MSU. You can't just Make Sh*t Up. The research is in. The facts are there for all to see. There is an increase in violence in society and we can corrolate it to the source."

The AMA in it's report to Congress stood up with the American Society of Child Psychologists and many other national scientific and research bodies to present the facts but nobody really seemed to listen. More school shootings continue to happen and still the public doesn't listen. Even here in Canada we are feeling the effects of what we've sowed in terms of media violence and still people won't listen. It reminds me of a ostarich putting it's head in the sand sometimes.

If the OP wants more sources to back my claim that there is indeed a link between media and video game violence and societal violence I'd be happy to provide them. To those that have a dissenting opinion I encourage you to provide me the sources that back your claim.

hi jack thompson