True Test of a Player and his Team!

[Angelus_dead]

Forgive me if I still fail to see how this stops people from simply recalling out in the middle of the quest, dropping group, getting mana, re-joining, and going back in (or switching to another alt before), and since the quest is only 50% done, their -80% penalty will go down to 0% by the time the quest is done.

It does not attempt to do that, since that is unnecessary. The players in that example are making a small tradeoff in time for an uncertain reward.

I fail to see how this would address the issue of people simply going to guildies/friends and saying "Well, it's your turn to take one for the team, but you can still roll on our stuff - I'll bring MY cleric for run #2, then I'll take one for the team"

It does not attempt to do that, since that is unnecessary. The players in that example are making a huge tradeoff in time.

[Deaeth]

It seems that once started noone can join.

The OP said a player was in a seperate instance and tried to come to theirs so you either there when the quest starts or you can't get in at all

I am not 100% sure on this as we never went further than the first CR 11 mobs in von1. But I can say that we each went into our own von 1, those w/o renown bags would recall out and join grp with renown. So yes, it's only the beginning but there were 7 mobs killed and others were allowed to join.

I am assuming they probably put some kind of invisible flag on a character to prevent them from going into the same instance that's already active that they already zoned into.

Yes players with multiple casters/healers can probably log out and swap as I HIGHLY doubt the lockout is account based. I for one won't feel like waiting for someone to swap toons all the time.

I have succussfully completed some epics w/o the use of casters/healers recalling for sp. And I'm sure there's a way in each and every instance to do the same!

And referring to the person who I didn't get to quote, who says melees are only usefull in epic wiz king on the bosses? Pfft!

[Chai]

The problem with this "true test" is that if your group falls short, all it means is that they spend a few Mnemonic Potions to fill up. So the epic-reentry doesn't make it about "succeed or fail", but "affordable or expensive". It'd be nicer if there was no way to use the crutch of drinking several mana potions to force a victory... success should be dependent on ability, not on willingness to spend.

Anyhow my suggestion for the devs is to just totally remove the epic re-entry obstruction, and instead give each character a chance to not receive epic stuff in the end chest based on the number of re-entries. For example, if someone does Epic Court of Laliat by recalling once for spellpoints, then there can be maybe a 20% chance for each member to not get an epic token or seals, with an additional penalty on the guy who actually re-entered. (Importantly, a character who is denied the epic loot also doesn't get put on epic lockout timer).

I would agree with this being a penalty only for the person re-entering.

If its a penalty for everyone due to one person re-entering I can see this being the new griefing tool of 2010.

[Cyr]

I have succussfully completed some epics w/o the use of casters/healers recalling for sp. And I'm sure there's a way in each and every instance to do the same!

It's not impressive to complete epics without recalling for sp...for example I've run hundreds with no one doing so.

Even horrible groups can muscle through epics with mana pots and store shrines.

[Deaeth]

It's not impressive to complete epics without recalling for sp...for example I've run hundreds with no one doing so.

Even horrible groups can muscle through epics with mana pots and store shrines.

Let me rephrase then. I have completed epics without the use of resources by my casters/healers!

Yes I know it can be done and that's all turbine is trying to enforce. The use of skill, tactics, strategy.

[Emili]

It's not impressive to complete epics without recalling for sp...for example I've run hundreds with no one doing so.

Even horrible groups can muscle through epics with mana pots and store shrines.

I agree... I've never left someone call out for mana nor would I ... am not bout to wait around for people to do so. If this was something prevalent in other players groups then they really have to wonder about thier casters and use of resource. Is nothing that some PP could ever replace either... a few mana pots a concord and torc may go a long way...

To the OP is not a measure of party as much as it is a measure of what resources the come in with....

Let me rephrase then. I have completed epics without the use of resources by my casters/healers!

Yes I know it can be done and that's all turbine is trying to enforce. The use of skill, tactics, strategy.

and depending how you look at it or lived through it - verses this - cheese of the AI...

Good example - Von 1, if a well geared high power group we just plow thru it... but if if deem the party resorces weak then I'll ease the burdon of those with mana by fighting the arena fight in a room and pulling small groups of mob compared to an all out blitz and destroy... takes longer replaces resource with time but in reality is Cheese tactic as the mob are bloody eejits. Is nothing deadly (brilliant) about such and akin to if not expolit of a safe spot in a broken quest.

... and so be it years ago as I argued with Riot about game and play - You see I was one of those early intimidating tanks in the age of TR - the cheese of it simply buff up run in grab a few mob agroed - those not agroed leave be will peal them off next... hit a key every few seconds to intimidate while swinging away my maladoit ... people patted me on the back - Emi your the greatest. No not really is just a silly game mechanic tests no skill, simple malarkey never challenges any thought what so ever. Our quest gets complete but not from my skill nor the skill of the party a little CC consitantly used over and over with no risks in the system ever changing, no risks on the the part of the mob ever deciding for themselves to live and challenge us... Sure all these years latter my toon still has a 60+ intimidate and still sports CE but I play differently I like the mix up I like the fact that every action I may take be different and has some effect... I like the fact I may zerge with one group or crawl with the other ... I like the fact that no single class need be some easy button. Choices of play style based on group is what makes the excitement when one is forced to 80% of a single play style then maybe the game becomes 80% redundant?

No I'm affraid the true test of a player and her team is more of knowing what her team may handle and adjusting accordingly ... AI exploit (even if not seen as such) is not a test ... it's predictable.

[Anthios888]

Hey, can someone clarify? If myself and two friends decide to start an epic quest, and a fourth, fifth, and sixth person join later, will they be locked out? Did the devs bring back the blue barrier?

I get that you can't re-enter on one toon... don't care too much about that, since I'd rather not waste the time going out for spell points anyway. However, gates closing behind you when you start a quest just sucks because the reality is everyone gets ****y because the one guy is taking care of his kid and keeping the party from getting started.

[Crazyfruit]

Is nothing deadly (brilliant) about such and akin to if not expolit of a safe spot in a broken quest.

That's nothing compared to some of the cheese stuff I've seen there

Most people insist on wizards jumping to the top of the arena by the gate somewhere and firewalling the place so nothing in there ever attacks anyone or even moves from the middle. And wow do they ever whine when my casters say "no, that's lame"...

Same thing for Von 2, carpeting the place so nothing in the end boss fight ever attacks and standing out of range from practically every other monster in the quest. Zzz. Almost glad those places are getting their tokens reduced.

The above is over half of the epics ever ran on the Orien server

[Quikster]

Hey, can someone clarify? If myself and two friends decide to start an epic quest, and a fourth, fifth, and sixth person join later, will they be locked out? Did the devs bring back the blue barrier?

I get that you can't re-enter on one toon... don't care too much about that, since I'd rather not waste the time going out for spell points anyway. However, gates closing behind you when you start a quest just sucks because the reality is everyone gets ****y because the one guy is taking care of his kid and keeping the party from getting started.

As of Saturday night:

I joined a von 1 with some guildies. They were in progress, got the key, opened the door to ready room one, and were killing. I got into the quest just fine.

[REALb0r3d]

Has anyone tried logging off and on before reentry?

Has anyone tried bringing an alt into an epic that they were already in?

[Merlocke]

Nice time to have the bauble/ss ring nerf.

[mudfud]

It seems that once started noone can join.

The OP said a player was in a seperate instance and tried to come to theirs so you either there when the quest starts or you can't get in at all

If that's really the case, that would be great. Then the quest would really be epic instead of having people who are lvl 20 doing it.

Nice time to have the bauble/ss ring nerf.

Dev's already posted epic ross and bauble staying same as they are on live now.

[valorik]

Hey, can someone clarify? If myself and two friends decide to start an epic quest, and a fourth, fifth, and sixth person join later, will they be locked out? Did the devs bring back the blue barrier?

I get that you can't re-enter on one toon... don't care too much about that, since I'd rather not waste the time going out for spell points anyway. However, gates closing behind you when you start a quest just sucks because the reality is everyone gets ****y because the one guy is taking care of his kid and keeping the party from getting started.

They just fixed the exploit used to reenter epic quests.

[moops]

Hmmm.. .I dont think I can recall the last time someone used a Mana Pot in Epic let alone recalled and dropped. . .

If people can't join while in progress I think that will be the death of Epic Quests--currently 1 or 2 of us will go in and clear or even finish Epic, and then others will join at the end for chests.

It's a bad idea to not allow people join while in progress.

[BlackSteel]

I didnt realize people recalled out for SP now..................

[moops]

Nice time to have the bauble/ss ring nerf.

It has been stated that these are not being changed by a Dev, it's in the Dev tracker.

[BlackSteel]

That's nothing compared to some of the cheese stuff I've seen there

Most people insist on wizards jumping to the top of the arena by the gate somewhere and firewalling the place so nothing in there ever attacks anyone or even moves from the middle. And wow do they ever whine when my casters say "no, that's lame"...

Same thing for Von 2, carpeting the place so nothing in the end boss fight ever attacks and standing out of range from practically every other monster in the quest. Zzz. Almost glad those places are getting their tokens reduced.

The above is over half of the epics ever ran on the Orien server

I've seen that happen only once, and I'm not going to party with that caster again. The quests are just to easy to have to exploit it that way.

[Kalari]

I didnt realize people recalled out for SP now..................

Thats what I was thinking when I read this but im kinda with the dont care mentality. Epics will still be the same for me whether they bar people from joining late, re add the blue bar or what not. As long as Epics continue to be quest ive run or lowbie quests that drop currently no tokens and in the future token pieces to put together I'll only be running as a needed member not as someone who really cares about the quests. Its not a challenge to me ooh the mobs hit harder, you can get around that, they have high hp, dps cuts that down. Unless im in a group where we are showing newer or a little squishier members how to get threw epics its hardly anything to really bat an eyelash at. And since esos is being changed Im not in such a hurry to get that now either. I dunno maybe the meh feeling has finally taken full control but I dont care what changes they make to epic.

[Anthios888]

They just fixed the exploit used to reenter epic quests.

God forbid!!

[Therilith]

currently 1 or 2 of us will go in and clear or even finish Epic, and then others will join at the end for chests.

And that doesn't feel... cheap? At all?