True Test of a Player and his Team!

[Deaeth]

I must say, I have found something not documented (unless I missed it) but honestly. I LOVE IT.

No more re-entrys into epic quests! Finally there's an actual challenge to the game and no more waiting around for your caster/healer to recall out and grab their sp back. Sorry pug'd epics, ain't gonna happen no more!

Now, this happend to be found on accident. Had 3 people epic von1 renown farming, one guy took invite while inside his instance, and then tried to come into mine to loot a renown bag. He couldn't come in so tried the handy dandy trick of him dropping group and re-joining. STILL couldn't zone in.

Now I haven't actually tested this in other epic instances, and only tried it this once and one other time where I myself verified I couldn't leave party and come back in. Didn't work still! So it could be a fluke here but I dunno. I hope it's actually fixed.

Tons of people are going to start crying about this saying it's not fair blah blah blah, but you know what, it's an EPIC quest. Meaning NOT supposed to be EASY AT ALL! A challenge OMG /gasp.

Now, all the above being said, I hope the devs take just a little more time to re-calculate how much each epic instance is worth,token-wise, and not take completion times from the past into account. As I can bet that a lot of completed instances were done with players recalling for SP. Now that there is actually a challenge in some of the quests, they should go back up in token drops.

Now that I posted this I can picture tons of people heading out to, oh lets say, Epic Wiz King for one? LOL.

Bring on the /rants. I need a good laugh. Lets hear how many ppl complain about the fix!

Thanks again Turbine, very happy that you brought some of the challenge back to the game. Now more high level, NON EPIC content please! /beg

[mudfud]

I must say, I have found something not documented (unless I missed it) but honestly. I LOVE IT.

No more re-entrys into epic quests! Finally there's an actual challenge to the game and no more waiting around for your caster/healer to recall out and grab their sp back. Sorry pug'd epics, ain't gonna happen no more!

Now, this happend to be found on accident. Had 3 people epic von1 renown farming, one guy took invite while inside his instance, and then tried to come into mine to loot a renown bag. He couldn't come in so tried the handy dandy trick of him dropping group and re-joining. STILL couldn't zone in.

Now I haven't actually tested this in other epic instances, and only tried it this once and one other time where I myself verified I couldn't leave party and come back in. Didn't work still! So it could be a fluke here but I dunno. I hope it's actually fixed.

Tons of people are going to start crying about this saying it's not fair blah blah blah, but you know what, it's an EPIC quest. Meaning NOT supposed to be EASY AT ALL! A challenge OMG /gasp.

Now, all the above being said, I hope the devs take just a little more time to re-calculate how much each epic instance is worth,token-wise, and not take completion times from the past into account. As I can bet that a lot of completed instances were done with players recalling for SP. Now that there is actually a challenge in some of the quests, they should go back up in token drops.

Now that I posted this I can picture tons of people heading out to, oh lets say, Epic Wiz King for one? LOL.

Bring on the /rants. I need a good laugh. Lets hear how many ppl complain about the fix!

Thanks again Turbine, very happy that you brought some of the challenge back to the game. Now more high level, NON EPIC content please! /beg

It's only gonna slow down people is all. Most will still try it and do it. It might take logging out instead now, or it might take the combination of logging out, changing to another character and then logging back into that character. But it will be done. Heck maybe even the logging into another of the 10 or so casters said person has also. For every fix they make there is always a badside or a not fixed aspect of it that people will take advantage of.

I agree with that being stupid and lazy but the epics I normally do don't require u to recall drop come back in unless the caster is one of those who think just because they are lvl 20 they belong in an epic quest.

[Rasczak]

It's only gonna slow down people is all. Most will still try it and do it. It might take logging out instead now, or it might take the combination of logging out, changing to another character and then logging back into that character. But it will be done. Heck maybe even the logging into another of the 10 or so casters said person has also. For every fix they make there is always a badside or a not fixed aspect of it that people will take advantage of.

I agree with that being stupid and lazy but the epics I normally do don't require u to recall drop come back in unless the caster is one of those who think just because they are lvl 20 they belong in an epic quest.

It seems that once started noone can join.

The OP said a player was in a seperate instance and tried to come to theirs so you either there when the quest starts or you can't get in at all

[Angelus_dead]

It seems that once started noone can join.

I hope it's not like that. Epic dungeon groups should not have to face the choice between starting in clearing some monsters or waiting for their group to fill up.

[Cyr]

I hope it's not like that. Epic dungeon groups should not have to face the choice between starting in clearing some monsters or waiting for their group to fill up.

Particularly since we already had this sort of mechanic in place with the 'blue barrier' and it was widely disliked.

Devs, stop trying to make epic all about drinking mana pots. Let people exit or enter epic quests just like any other quest. It's not like that half an epic quest token is so OP. The re-entry restriction DOES NOT MAKE EPIC QUESTS HARDER it just makes Turbine look like they are trying desperately to milk every last penny out of us before we get disgusted and leave.

[Angelus_dead]

Particularly since we already had this sort of mechanic in place with the 'blue barrier' and it was widely disliked.

Yes, I think I know what you mean:

The Suggestion
Go to every quest from level 2 to 20 and add an impassible blue forcefield over the entry, which activates when a player character leaves the first room. Once active, anyone who recalls, joins late, or uses Dimension Door will be unable to come into the rest of the area.

The Justification
This change will allow all quests and modes to be as fun and popular as Epic mode is. No longer will players be forced to wait until level 20 to experience the challenging tension of being locked into the dungeon.

It's not like that half an epic quest token is so OP.

And if they wanted, the number of epic fragments could be reduced if you re-entered.

[Krag]

Can we has more shrines in ADQ?

[Elation]

Well to those that think its just a money sink maybe its time to leave if you waste pots cause you are in such a hurry then its your own fault personally think this would be a great change stop allowing people to abuse the mechanics of the game and if they want to waste their resources great its on them. Turbine is not hampering your play ability in anyway with this, its causing you to think a little, even on your sorce on when and how to use your spell selections.

[Crazyfruit]

You can do them all without recalling out for SP or SP pots as it is (ADQ's a bit rough tho), assuming a balanced group & some form of crowd control. Tactics are everything, don't even need gear/weighted junk...

Are they still a challenge at all with the -10 to saves?

That seemed like something that'd completely ruin the fun of epics for me even more than those groups who insist on cheesy AI exploits. Can't try them on Llamaland as a wf premium :|

[Xeraphim]

I hope it's not like that. Epic dungeon groups should not have to face the choice between starting in clearing some monsters or waiting for their group to fill up.

Agreed. It's bad enough already waiting for Epic Raids...

[moops]

Hmmm.. .I dont think I can recall the last time someone used a Mana Pot in Epic let alone recalled and dropped. . .

If people can't join while in progress I think that will be the death of Epic Quests--currently 1 or 2 of us will go in and clear or even finish Epic, and then others will join at the end for chests.

It's a bad idea to not allow people join while in progress.

[Krag]

It seems that once started noone can join.

The OP said a player was in a seperate instance and tried to come to theirs so you either there when the quest starts or you can't get in at all

Does that mean it is no longer possible to bring character X to fill the role and than switch to character who actually needs tokens? No more "Soloed Wiz King, need some DPS for the boss" LFMs?

[Rasczak]

Does that mean it is no longer possible to bring character X to fill the role and than switch to character who actually needs tokens? No more "Soloed Wiz King, need some DPS for the boss" LFMs?

Considering that tokens are now BtA and raid can be traded for dungeon that's not to much of an issue for me.

My problem would be having to wait for your group instead of starting and having people catch up as is the custom now.

[Krag]

My problem would be having to wait for your group instead of starting and having people catch up as is the custom now.

Wiz King in particular, because melees can substantially contribute only to the bossfight. Reaver's Fate piking sounds like a childsplay in comparison.

[Cyr]

My problem would be having to wait for your group instead of starting and having people catch up as is the custom now.

Yup this is the main issue.

The other one of course is the false premise that more consumable use that can be (and is) aquired from the store is somehow more challenging or more fun.

I'll believe that Turbine actually cares about the challenge of epic content and not making a quick buck (and the argument that this type of thing is ACTUALLY more challenging) when Turbine bought items are unusable in epic quests (pots, shrines, cakes, and whatever else).

[Crazyfruit]

The OP said a player was in a seperate instance and tried to come to theirs so you either there when the quest starts or you can't get in at all

It sounded more to me like someone couldn't go from their epic instance (also von1) to his version of the quest.

This happens currently on live. Someone solo grabbing chests in epic ADQ & joining an inprogress ADQ group for a quick flag will get dumped back into their epic when they recall out - now prevented from entering with the bug fix

[Deaeth]

It seems that once started noone can join.

The OP said a player was in a seperate instance and tried to come to theirs so you either there when the quest starts or you can't get in at all

I am not 100% sure on this as we never went further than the first CR 11 mobs in von1. But I can say that we each went into our own von 1, those w/o renown bags would recall out and join grp with renown. So yes, it's only the beginning but there were 7 mobs killed and others were allowed to join.

I am assuming they probably put some kind of invisible flag on a character to prevent them from going into the same instance that's already active that they already zoned into.

Yes players with multiple casters/healers can probably log out and swap as I HIGHLY doubt the lockout is account based. I for one won't feel like waiting for someone to swap toons all the time.

I have succussfully completed some epics w/o the use of casters/healers recalling for sp. And I'm sure there's a way in each and every instance to do the same!

And referring to the person who I didn't get to quote, who says melees are only usefull in epic wiz king on the bosses? Pfft!

[Cyr]

I have succussfully completed some epics w/o the use of casters/healers recalling for sp. And I'm sure there's a way in each and every instance to do the same!

It's not impressive to complete epics without recalling for sp...for example I've run hundreds with no one doing so.

Even horrible groups can muscle through epics with mana pots and store shrines.

[Deaeth]

It's not impressive to complete epics without recalling for sp...for example I've run hundreds with no one doing so.

Even horrible groups can muscle through epics with mana pots and store shrines.

Let me rephrase then. I have completed epics without the use of resources by my casters/healers!

Yes I know it can be done and that's all turbine is trying to enforce. The use of skill, tactics, strategy.

[Emili]

It's not impressive to complete epics without recalling for sp...for example I've run hundreds with no one doing so.

Even horrible groups can muscle through epics with mana pots and store shrines.

I agree... I've never left someone call out for mana nor would I ... am not bout to wait around for people to do so. If this was something prevalent in other players groups then they really have to wonder about thier casters and use of resource. Is nothing that some PP could ever replace either... a few mana pots a concord and torc may go a long way...

To the OP is not a measure of party as much as it is a measure of what resources the come in with....

Let me rephrase then. I have completed epics without the use of resources by my casters/healers!

Yes I know it can be done and that's all turbine is trying to enforce. The use of skill, tactics, strategy.

and depending how you look at it or lived through it - verses this - cheese of the AI...

Good example - Von 1, if a well geared high power group we just plow thru it... but if if deem the party resorces weak then I'll ease the burdon of those with mana by fighting the arena fight in a room and pulling small groups of mob compared to an all out blitz and destroy... takes longer replaces resource with time but in reality is Cheese tactic as the mob are bloody eejits. Is nothing deadly (brilliant) about such and akin to if not expolit of a safe spot in a broken quest.

... and so be it years ago as I argued with Riot about game and play - You see I was one of those early intimidating tanks in the age of TR - the cheese of it simply buff up run in grab a few mob agroed - those not agroed leave be will peal them off next... hit a key every few seconds to intimidate while swinging away my maladoit ... people patted me on the back - Emi your the greatest. No not really is just a silly game mechanic tests no skill, simple malarkey never challenges any thought what so ever. Our quest gets complete but not from my skill nor the skill of the party a little CC consitantly used over and over with no risks in the system ever changing, no risks on the the part of the mob ever deciding for themselves to live and challenge us... Sure all these years latter my toon still has a 60+ intimidate and still sports CE but I play differently I like the mix up I like the fact that every action I may take be different and has some effect... I like the fact I may zerge with one group or crawl with the other ... I like the fact that no single class need be some easy button. Choices of play style based on group is what makes the excitement when one is forced to 80% of a single play style then maybe the game becomes 80% redundant?

No I'm affraid the true test of a player and her team is more of knowing what her team may handle and adjusting accordingly ... AI exploit (even if not seen as such) is not a test ... it's predictable.