Lead by example

[Iambeastx]

this Man Had A Good Understanding Of How To Utilise Puggers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyfgrd1t9wq

Unfortunately His Understanding Of The Irish Was Not So Good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyx0k4wrelo&nr=1

:d

[synkos]

Funny thing, was just talking about the Irish scene with my mates at work

[Clay]

Not sure what is being asked of me...

Are you asking my permission to criticize me in a thread (to avoid getting IPs)? Go ahead... there is nothing you can say to me I haven't already heard in vent! One caveat: any strategies I have imparted to you are TM though and I will expect royalties in the form of pp every time someone uses them.

My curiosity is piqued! I await the unfolding madness.

[Judo]

what in the holy hell is this thread about??

[Kruler]

It has to do with that cat eating the yellow peep next to the light pole.

[KingOfCheese]

Ok, I'm going to give this a shot at translation. Here goes:

I hope that this thread does not become locked, but will do my best to make my request without creating a lockable thread.

I would like to establish a Thelanis consensus and create a guide and ranking to help new players, puggers, small guilds, and the like know which leaders and guilds to seek out and how to thrive under their leadership--because each leader/guild tends to use a different style.

In making this thread, I'd like to keep it positive. In particular, I don't want to list the "worst" leaders or "worst guilds" or to say that any particular guild does things wrong. Instead, I'd like to guide puggers to know what to expect with each different type of leader/guild run that they can expect to see on Thelanis and to know what is expected of them for the run to be successful.

More than anything, I'd like this thread to identify and highlight good leadership and teaching. Such skills are not very common. When an LFM goes up with a consensus good leader (I'll call them "SPOT ON" leaders), it would be great if everyone knew who that person was so that the group could fill quickly (even if that means I don't get in ).

Then there is everyone else--I will call them "WEAK TEA."

I'm requesting permission of the SPOT ON leaders and the guilds to describe their tactics here and to call them out so that new players, puggers, etc. know who they are and know how their runs operate. Two examples of such good leaders are Clay (from Legion) and Raidon (from Storm Lords).

There are many others as well, but I'd like to start this off with a few of the best and see where this goes.

[Eladiun]

I think the OP has gone beyond the need for an aluminum foil hat...
.
.
.

.
.
.

You really do have one for every occasion...color me impressed.

[sigtrent]

not sure how to do this without becoming cubefood. would like to start a bit of a general consensus/ranking/guide for pugers/pileons/small or no guild/newbs on joining guilds/leaders raids/groups.

i dont want an avoid this guild or leaders thread. more of a what the puger should expect when joining them.

i would realy like this to be an appreciation of good leadership and teachers. its hard to come by and very rare. the SPOT ON category. i hope their lfm goes down quick, evan if that means i dont get in.

the WEAK TEA category. basicly everyone else. probly wont take long to get an example of this, how ultra/uber/1337 their guild/leader/friend is. easy to come by just add water...

ill request permission of these people and their guilds to use as examples. forum name Clay and his guild. game name wompadinga from the same guild. game name raidon or raiden storm. i dont realy know womp or raidon, but i want to use you as SPOT ON examples. Clay i have to many IOUs, you just gota take the hit. im gona squeze a little WEAK TEA out of you, but im confident any criticism will only make you better.

many others id like to get to, ill just start with this see how it goes. very little room for error.

Translation....

This thread may become a flamefest and be eaten by the cube, but I posted it anyhow.

I want to get a discussion going of among and about the best group leaders on the server, what to expect when joining their pugs and what makes them good group leaders. Id call these exemplar leaders "Spot On."

I don't want to see it turn into a flamefest where we rag on bad group leaders. I think they will reveal themselves by bragging about how awesome the are in this thread and their chest thumping will be transparent to us all. I call this category of leaders "Weak Tea."

Clay/Womp and Raiden are examples of group leaders I admire and have had good experiences with. With their permission I'd like to discuss what makes them good group leaders. I may have some critiques for them as well.

There are others I'd like to discuss as well but I may not have the time to get into them.

End Translation....

I think a good leader does the following....

1. Pays attention to what is going on with the others in the group

2. Communicates clearly what he wants people to do or not to do

3. Recognizes that each person ultimately gets to make their own play decisions

4. Is Patient with those still learning

5. Listens to the people in his group and takes their input into account

6. Doesn't sweat the little stuff and keeps his eye on completing the quest and helping folks have a good time.

Not every group needs a leader. When the quest is easy and folks all know how to do it, leadership is superfluous beyond organizing the group. Still, a bit of direction and encouragement is still appreciated.

Some groups desperately need a leader, even if its just someone who makes decisions to keep things moving along. Some quests like the Titan quest can use more than one leader since the group must split up.

[Fattiest]

Which country is "this" one? I'm pretty sure Thelanis is home to Euros, Canadians, Brazilians, the Irish, and the U.S. among others. I'm not exactly sure where the poster is from, but it's a pretty bizarre read.

It’s defiantly the United States; our citizens are morphing more and more into pileons everyday. If were not careful were going to end up just like Greece (To much Gov’t outflow to programs and not enough inflow).

Were kinda like a really bad pug right now........ Two or three doing all the work the rest just sitting in the corner waiting for the chest to pop up.

[Alter]

queue yakety sax?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnHmskwqCCQ

Alter

[Eladiun]

I don't play on Thelanis but here is my take...

I never used to like leading (I do enough of it in RL or at least used to) but I find myself doing more of it because no one else is and I believe if your not willing to step up yourself you have no right to complain. Plus I hate standing around waiting for someone else to make up their fracking mind. Am I a great leader? No, but I'm getting better...learning from my mistakes and my parties mistakes. What I expect from a party is simple:

1) Listen and have voice enabled. You don't have to speak but you need to hear.
2) Speak up... If you're a first timer, lost, or confused...speak up. I'm not psychic.
3) When in doubt do nothing and follow the group, don't run off, don't click stuff when you don't know what it does, don't talk to NPC's, etc.
4) If I say there are traps, let the rogue lead if you don't know the quest
5) Don't be a DB and don't yell at the healer
6) No whiners; if I say we go 5 and you don't like it leave, if I say we go without a perfect party and you don't like it leave...don't hang around ****ing and moaning through the entire quest.
7) Contribute and be a team player
8) Don't argue. It's not a democracy. If you want to lead, make your own group. I'm more than willing to listen and learn something new but if a vet says your wrong/that doesn't work don't argue with me for the rest of the dungeon. I'm not answering because I squelched you.
9) RTLFM - Read The Fracking LFM if it says Casual, Rune Farming, KYW...we aren't killing the dragon, uping the difficulty, waiting for you, or trying something else.

...that's really all I expect.

My responsibilities:

1) Fill the group
2) Keep the party moving. No one wants to waste time standing around.
3) Provide clear instruction and help to those who need it
4) Keep the party on the same page
5) Set an appropriate pace - if we are getting killed slow the party down and save the healers resources, understand the parties capabilities and set pace accordingly
6) Get the Proper People to complete...if you can't solve the puzzle, in The Reaver's Fate for example, make sure you find someone who can before you start or don't run TS without someone to get the rune
7) Don't overreact and don't be an jerk (I sometimes have to put myself in timeout)

[78mackson]

Since no one knows what this thread is about... I might aswell space out aswell...

.. it would be kinda interesting to take 2-4 completly new players and show em the ropes;
pump em with pots, gear, builds and hints on how to play efficient.. this would ofcourse demand something of the player.. that they are willing to trust you..

I did something similar of what I said with one player.. I just got tired of having him asking so many questions, I guess.. so I gave him all my gear(on that toon) and told him to roll up a ranger monk with vet-status that he bought from the store... then we went on to TR and duoed it N/H/E.. I know, its not a big deal for a regular powergamer schmuck.. ...but for a player that is used to AC19 with 1d6+4dmg and with some easy pointers now had ac34, 1d10+30 ever lasting haste and self heal it was a bigger deal... Hope I didnt ruin his game thou, finding out stuff on your own is a part of the ride...

[Dredmantis]

Not sure what is being asked of me...

Are you asking my permission to criticize me in a thread (to avoid getting IPs)? Go ahead... there is nothing you can say to me I haven't already heard in vent! One caveat: any strategies I have imparted to you are TM though and I will expect royalties in the form of pp every time someone uses them.

My curiosity is piqued! I await the unfolding madness.

thats the SPOT ON im wanting to make an example of.

no such contract for royalties was ever agreed too not even hinted at verbaly. the strategies are the best ive seen,but for most pugs more hassle than its worth to use them.

i will pay the 5 or 10 k plat for the 1st one to die that one time, even though i never agreed to the wager.
actualy would be grateful for your help and advice if i manage to somehow cleary communicate what i want to accomplish.
im a big shiny example of WEAK TEA doing this. i apologize to everyone for the grammer etc.

[Dredmantis]

riding the clay train

perhaps the most precise exact wealth of knowledge and statagies of the game contained in one person.

pugers and those requesting mentoring should have at least an average understanding of the game before joining a clay train pug. many a puger will get powerslamed overwhelmed with the amount and rate of incoming information. some may find this arrogant, set that aside and theres a great opportunity to learn even for the adept veteran.
the clay train is very fast paced, purpose driven, maximizing its xp potental. many pugers will be get left behind, or just be trying to keep up. effectively making them pikers. examples of the pace 6 minute shadowcrypt. 3 man 2 multiboxing 7 minute xorian cypher with lighthearted whineing *****ing how we got to get it down to 5. 17 minute crucible.
pugers should not be concerned with low to medium lvl loot, slows the train down.
be ready for plenty of good natured whining about your every weakness and have your gimps exposed.
many of the statagies have little room for error. many may die. but are very effective when done correctly. some may find them questionable.
rarely clay will continualy force tactics on a group that cant do them for some reason. or a slow pace can cause some frusrtation.
to contribute or just keep up bring a good stack of haste pots.
if you can play fast, think fast, and learn fast. test your metal and give the clay train a ride. clay your a horrible choice for a weak tea example. if someone who could do this properly, did it. maybe more of wiki type guide. for the few who do a little research, would be it be at all helpfull? or usefull? what to expect, how to be prepared, or if you should ride the clay train.

[Eladiun]

riding the clay train

perhaps the most precise exact wealth of knowledge and statagies of the game contained in one person.

pugers and those requesting mentoring should have at least an average understanding of the game before joining a clay train pug. many a puger will get powerslamed overwhelmed with the amount and rate of incoming information. some may find this arrogant, set that aside and theres a great opportunity to learn even for the adept veteran.
the clay train is very fast paced, purpose driven, maximizing its xp potental. many pugers will be get left behind, or just be trying to keep up. effectively making them pikers. examples of the pace 6 minute shadowcrypt. 3 man 2 multiboxing 7 minute xorian cypher with lighthearted whineing *****ing how we got to get it down to 5. 17 minute crucible.
pugers should not be concerned with low to medium lvl loot, slows the train down.
be ready for plenty of good natured whining about your every weakness and have your gimps exposed.
many of the statagies have little room for error. many may die. but are very effective when done correctly. some may find them questionable.
rarely clay will continualy force tactics on a group that cant do them for some reason. or a slow pace can cause some frusrtation.
to contribute or just keep up bring a good stack of haste pots.
if you can play fast, think fast, and learn fast. test your metal and give the clay train a ride. clay your a horrible choice for a weak tea example. if someone who could do this properly, did it. maybe more of wiki type guide. for the few who do a little research, would be it be at all helpfull? or usefull? what to expect, how to be prepared, or if you should ride the clay train.

Wow Clay...I think this guys your biggest fan. He wants a ride on the Clay train. Close your shades at night...

[Delt]

riding the clay train

ride the clay train.

I am pretty sure this is a euphemism for something filthy...

[weyoun]

I am pretty sure this is a euphemism for something filthy...

Macy's parade sized hentai dolls! I've seen it all now.

[Strings]

Womp still plays?

[Clay]

Unfortunately Womp is still on hiatus. He is the best of us.


Whining! When do I whine!? Questionable? Questionable?! Skipping chests?

Thanks for the (left-handed)compliment Dred... oh... you know that key on the 2nd from bottom row of you keyboard... the one duplicated on the far left and right... it is NOT just decoration!


Delt... can't give you +1 as I gotta spread some around again.. But you did make me spit coffee on my keyboard so I guess that's something.

[Clay]

perhaps the most precise exact wealth of knowledge and statagies of the game contained in one person.

Just noticed this... all it means is that I play too much and have a good memory. More than a little bit of an exaggeration. Leveling there are people faster than me. Builds and Quest Strategies, I only watch and learn from others, adapting things for my own personality.

The key is: treating it as a game... the cost of failure? Some laughs, some pp and some time. That is why the attribute most frustrating for me to hear from people I group with is "we can't do X without Y" Well, sitting at the dungeon entrance is certainly not solving anything, so let's problem solve and find a solution. Yes there are some physical impossibilities, like solo pulling 6 runes in Von 5, but if you multi box, you can get 4!