We need more quests in the 12-20 range!

[Deaeth]

There is absolutely no need for any new quests under level 18 honestly. I'm on my 4th life and stopping completionist because I am not going to do the same Amrath Quests bunches of times just to cap and TR again through the SAME low level content over n over agian.

For those of you having problems. By the time you hit level 7-9, try farming Shadow Crypts 15 times on norm, then doing hard elite. I bet you go from lvl 9 to 10. Try tomb of the tormented (rat maze). Yes this quest is VERY easy, HINT: chain missles works GREAT! 22 mins runs for 15k exp first time.

By then your 12-13 and all the "large adv packs" open up for prime leveling. Level 15 is where I noticed the biggest stoppage in exp, but still easily made it to level 18. Once there, it's IQ, DD, and Amrath until your eyes bleed!

[Borror0]

But again, the same issue with epics, it is just recycled content. People want NEW stuff, they want new items to work for, a new raid to run ect... People are tierd of the "Half-assed" new content (lvl 5 quests for the f2p, but are epic for vets) They want TRUE high lvl content

You misunderstood me. I did not mean "take the same content, copy it and adapt it for high level." I meant that they should use already existing content and move up (or down) a few levels. the problem is not "there are not enough quests in the game" but rather "there are too many low level quests and too few mid or high level quests" which is why moving some quests a few levels would mostly address the issue.

The distribution could look something like this:
Korthos Island: Level 1 (9 quests)
The Harbor: Level 2-3 (25 quests)
The Marketplace: Level 4-5 (27 quests) Might need to make an adventure pack free in that area though.
House P & Necropolis I: 6-7 (28 quests)
House D & Three-Barrel Cove: 8-9 (22 quests)
House K & Ataraxia's Haven: 10 (15 quests)
House J: 11-12 (19 quests)
Threnal: 13 (13 quests)
Zawabi's Refuge:14 (10 quests)
Necropolis II: 15 (5 quests)
Restless Isles + HIPS: 15 (5 quests)
Inspired Quarters: 16 (7 quests)
Necropolis III: 16 (5 quests)
Vale of Twilight: 17 (6 quests)
Isle of Forgotten Dreams: 17 (4 quests)
Necropolis IV: 17 (5 quests)
Gianthold: 18 (11 quests)
Reaver's Refuge: 19 (4 quests)
Amrath: 19 (6 quests)
All epic stuff*: 20

*Made available to all character level 16 or higher.

It's a rough draft with probably several flaws (too little free content, too many undead, I might have done a mistake counting the number of quests per area, etc.) and which is missing a few quests with weirder location for their level (Invaders!, Mire in Kobolds, etc.) but hopefully that gets the point across. The current quests are close to enough content for the full game, if distributed well enough.

[Mockduck]

There is absolutely no need for any new quests under level 18 honestly. I'm on my 4th life and stopping completionist because I am not going to do the same Amrath Quests bunches of times just to cap and TR again through the SAME low level content over n over agian.

For those of you having problems. By the time you hit level 7-9, try farming Shadow Crypts 15 times on norm, then doing hard elite. I bet you go from lvl 9 to 10. Try tomb of the tormented (rat maze). Yes this quest is VERY easy, HINT: chain missles works GREAT! 22 mins runs for 15k exp first time.

By then your 12-13 and all the "large adv packs" open up for prime leveling. Level 15 is where I noticed the biggest stoppage in exp, but still easily made it to level 18. Once there, it's IQ, DD, and Amrath until your eyes bleed!

For me it's not about leveling but about variety of gameplay at a given level. I'd never run Shadow Crypts over and over as that wouldn't be much fun. I'd much rather fun 15 different quests once than one quest 15 times.

[sephiroth1084]

"You must spread rep around, blah, blah..."

There is absolutely no need for any new quests under level 18 honestly. I'm on my 4th life and stopping completionist because I am not going to do the same Amrath Quests bunches of times just to cap and TR again through the SAME low level content over n over agian.

For those of you having problems. By the time you hit level 7-9, try farming Shadow Crypts 15 times on norm, then doing hard elite. I bet you go from lvl 9 to 10. Try tomb of the tormented (rat maze). Yes this quest is VERY easy, HINT: chain missles works GREAT! 22 mins runs for 15k exp first time.

By then your 12-13 and all the "large adv packs" open up for prime leveling. Level 15 is where I noticed the biggest stoppage in exp, but still easily made it to level 18. Once there, it's IQ, DD, and Amrath until your eyes bleed!

This:

We need more quests level 12-20 if for no other reason than to give us as many options as we have prior to level 12. Yeah, you can hit cap by running quests over and over after level 12, but I think variety is good. I would have loved to see the Update 5 quests mob statted for a level 15 character, I bet it would have made them even better.

Yes, I can run the Vale quests N/H/E and GH the same way to get through most of the sticky areas in the upper level range, and can run and rerun Orchard quests and Amrath, but the fact is, I enjoy variety.

I'm almost 19 on my first TR and made a point to run quests in the early levels that I had never run before in over 2 years of playing DDO (the 3rd tier Necro tombs, except the Cursed Crypt which I had run many times in the past, some of the desert side quests), while also completely skipping many of the house quests and such as a I leveled. I repeated some (Shadow Crypt x5, for example), but generally had a lot of variety in my questing.

That all stops around level 13. I like Gianthold, but it's a bit stale. Same with The Vale. I don't care much for the Orchard quests, find much of the IQ and DD quests to be too easy and dull, and the SoS stuff gets old real fast, especially after grinding through them for runes for a half dozen characters.

Acid Wit provided a nice reprieve from the same old stuff, but that's just one quest.

We need variety. My friend quit DDO because, while he enjoyed playing it a lot up until ~lvl 15, he just really didn't like repeating quests, and there is nothing else to do at that range.

[R0cksteady]

When you consider how long it takes to level at high levels after reincarnating, it's kind of terrible how little XP there is at high levels. Far from impossible, but it's a ridiculous grind. It sucks having to dot he same quests over, and over and over again to get XP.

[Shade]

The free to play micro transaction model prevent it from happening. Sad but true.

New players only get so far, then they need to buy some points for a content pack.. The more low level ones they see getting run, the more likely they are to spend. When they see fresh content just coming out or going on sale, the more likely they are to spend NOW.

A TON of players probably just buy 1 point pack, play the pack they select a bit, then disappear forever. Likely this provides turbine far more revenue then any of us veteran players could even begin to give them. Remember there's "a million plus" of them, and probably less then 10,000 of us.

The few that stick around mostly go vip to play the rest of content, hit 20 and end it.

The even fewer that stick around past 20 (us) .. We're really not of significant value to the marketing team.

So they make content where the money is.

Update 3 = The last good update ddo may ever see
Update 4 = lvl5-8
Update 5 = lvl4-7
Update 6 = lvl6-9
Update 7 = low lvl stuff again they already said for new players playing half orcs. Probably something theme'd around the half orcs coming.
Update 8 = Take a guess.

Unless they can convice us to pay like 10 times as much for high lvl content (which they cant) they are going to stick on this path of uneven content distribtution.

[Persnoody]

The free to play micro transaction model prevent it from happening. Sad but true.

New players only get so far, then they need to buy some points for a content pack.. The more low level ones they see getting run, the more likely they are to spend. When they see fresh content just coming out or going on sale, the more likely they are to spend NOW.

A TON of players probably just buy 1 point pack, play the pack they select a bit, then disappear forever. Likely this provides turbine far more revenue then any of us veteran players could even begin to give them. Remember there's "a million plus" of them, and probably less then 10,000 of us.

The few that stick around mostly go vip to play the rest of content, hit 20 and end it.

The even fewer that stick around past 20 (us) .. We're really not of significant value to the marketing team.

So they make content where the money is.

Update 3 = The last good update ddo may ever see
Update 4 = lvl5-8
Update 5 = lvl4-7
Update 6 = lvl6-9
Update 7 = low lvl stuff again they already said for new players playing half orcs. Probably something theme'd around the half orcs coming.
Update 8 = Take a guess.

Unless they can convice us to pay like 10 times as much for high lvl content (which they cant) they are going to stick on this path of uneven content distribtution.

Sad but true. could always release like a lvl 15 free raid, TS is doin good and that would get people to want to lvl, bring a lot more in the direction of end game content.

[sirgog]

The free to play micro transaction model prevent it from happening. Sad but true.

New players only get so far, then they need to buy some points for a content pack.. The more low level ones they see getting run, the more likely they are to spend. When they see fresh content just coming out or going on sale, the more likely they are to spend NOW.

A TON of players probably just buy 1 point pack, play the pack they select a bit, then disappear forever. Likely this provides turbine far more revenue then any of us veteran players could even begin to give them. Remember there's "a million plus" of them, and probably less then 10,000 of us.

The few that stick around mostly go vip to play the rest of content, hit 20 and end it.

The even fewer that stick around past 20 (us) .. We're really not of significant value to the marketing team.

So they make content where the money is.

Update 3 = The last good update ddo may ever see
Update 4 = lvl5-8
Update 5 = lvl4-7
Update 6 = lvl6-9
Update 7 = low lvl stuff again they already said for new players playing half orcs. Probably something theme'd around the half orcs coming.
Update 8 = Take a guess.

Unless they can convice us to pay like 10 times as much for high lvl content (which they cant) they are going to stick on this path of uneven content distribtution.

They'd probably be able to sell another high-quality endgame adventure pack (like Amrath) for 1000 TP. I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

[sirgog]

...You know, that completely slipped my mind.
Reaver's is a place I grinded for ages to get the runes I wanted, then never looked back.
The XP-effort ratio isn't very good there either, like Amrath. Though, the explorer zones are worth a few runs through to get the rares and explorer points.

Reaver's Reach is the best XP in the level 16-19 range, although going beyond Normal is quite challenging in PUGs.

Monastery can be almost as good as Shadow Crypt for XP. Prey is solid XP, and SoS is acceptable XP too.

[Crazyfruit]

^ What Shade said.

Last week when all adventure packs were on sale it was easy to see which people bought most over F2P's lifetime.

STK & Catacombs were the best sellers. (Yes, Catacombs!)

The bottom of the barrel: Inspired, Shavarath, Dreaming Dark. Zombie pirates sold more than some of these. So did +2 swords. If you really want to see more mid/high level content, convince some friends to buy it? :|

I don't remember the exact list, but Demon Sands/Gianthold/Vale was in the middle.

So taking that into considering, what could they do to satisfy high level P2P/VIPs/TRs without hurting their bottom line? People who matter look at this board, post your thoughts A few quick ideas:

• More (better!) dungeons like Devil Assault, scaling at difficulty levels. Maybe even entire adventure packs like that.
• A premium high-level raid released at the same time as the low level content.
• An adventure pack for low levels, and another for mid/high levels with the same update. Reward upgrades in the opposite pack would help cross-sell them both.
• Turn some of the low level packs into higher level quests - the ones former VIPs don't purchase. Do some focus tests and see which people give less-than-stellar reviews to and keep the best ones there for new players to experience.

One more thing to remember: Many folks who want new high level quests probably play a lot & would buy them with free turbine points instead of $$$.

[Aashrym]

I'll stick with /signed.

[clkpacker]

• More (better!) dungeons like Devil Assault, scaling at difficulty levels. Maybe even entire adventure packs like that.
• A premium high-level raid released at the same time as the low level content.
• An adventure pack for low levels, and another for mid/high levels with the same update. Reward upgrades in the opposite pack would help cross-sell them both.
• Turn some of the low level packs into higher level quests - the ones former VIPs don't purchase. Do some focus tests and see which people give less-than-stellar reviews to and keep the best ones there for new players to experience.

I have no idea how effective this would be, but I'll throw it out there--adventure packs that span levels and are tied together by a theme/NPC/race/area/etc. For example: with the release of half-orcs, also release an adventure pack to the Shadow Marches. Start a long quest chain there that begins with a pair of relatively-self-contained level 5-6 quests and a level 5-6 adventure area (the Shadow Marches in particular ought to be able to deliver a really unique, alluring adventure area to snag buyers). The player comes back around level 10 for a longer 4-quest chain and/or a spattering of solitary quests. Around 14-16, have a "capstone" quest chain that finishes off the storyline. If viable, add one or two 18-20 level quests.

I can't speak for anyone else and have no idea how in-keeping this idea is with the microtransactions model, but I would certainly be a lot more likely to buy packs like that. While I really enjoy Catacombs and Shan-To-Kor (I love how I just reinforce your above point), I outgrew them very quickly. I bought them because (a) they were cheap and (b) they were the approximate level of my characters at the time. For future transactions, I'd be more likely to invest in something I can play throughout the levels than one I can run only at certain levels.

[donfilibuster]

Actually, J1NG discovered that the sun rises in the south.

lol. that warforged needs a statue. and make it an explorer point while at it.

[Auran82]

A suggestion I have made before regarding epic which could help here a bit:

This is also a side effect of their chosen implementation of Epic.

Had it been a separate checkbox they could have had Epic Hard or Elite as it is now and had Epic normal with the lower saves (and probably lower hp/damage etc) and scaled the chances for seals/shard/scrolls to drop depending on difficulty with a differing number of epic token shards on each difficulty.

Hell, they could even allow say level 18 - 20 into Epic Normal, 19 - 20 into Epic hard and restrict Epic Elite to 20s, give each of them a first time bonus and a separate repetition counter, wishful thinking, but it would mean they could release a level 5 pack with an epic mode and instant level 18 - 20 content as well. Hell, lets have Casual Epic which is pretty much the dungeon scaled to level 20 with no level requirement for entering, no epic loot or tokens pretty much just another option for high level characters to run for xp, with a difficulty around Amrath on Hard. Would give people approaching 20 a taste of where that dungeon is heading for epic.

Doing it that way would give them more of an option for balancing as they wouldn't be trying to fit every type of player with a level 20 character into one box, which is just not possible.

[Claver]

The free to play micro transaction model prevent it from happening. Sad but true.

New players only get so far, then they need to buy some points for a content pack.. The more low level ones they see getting run, the more likely they are to spend. When they see fresh content just coming out or going on sale, the more likely they are to spend NOW.

My thoughts exactly...

I wonder how many F2P players purchased Inspired Quarter/ Dreaming Dark vs. the Sentinels Pack. Do any F2Ps who purchased either care to testify?

[FluffyCalico]

Technically level 20s have no business in epic quest let alone a 18-19. If you start letting 18s in epic for xp then they aren't very epic are they. Not saying you shouldn't let in 18s just that it needs to be renamed something more appropiate like legendary. Epic is not appropiate.

[Auran82]

Technically level 20s have no business in epic quest let alone a 18-19. If you start letting 18s in epic for xp then they aren't very epic are they. Not saying you shouldn't let in 18s just that it needs to be renamed something more appropiate like legendary. Epic is not appropiate.

No arguments from me on the name, using epic really does (in my mind) point out that they do not intend on increasing the level cap again at any point soon.

Having said that, they have more (almost free development wise) high level content staring them in the face, for whatever reason though, they decided to impose a min level cap on it.

[FluffyCalico]

My thoughts exactly...

I wonder how many F2P players purchased Inspired Quarter/ Dreaming Dark vs. the Sentinels Pack. Do any F2Ps who purchased either care to testify?

I have one friend who is FTP and he got them. As he went the route of buy the big point pack on sale and then wait for the quests to go onsale and that one point pack can unlock pretty much everything quest wise for the whole game. I think he is missing nero 1-2 and devil assult and thats pretty much it.

[NXPlasmid]

The free to play micro transaction model prevent it from happening. Sad but true.

New players only get so far, then they need to buy some points for a content pack.. The more low level ones they see getting run, the more likely they are to spend. When they see fresh content just coming out or going on sale, the more likely they are to spend NOW.

A TON of players probably just buy 1 point pack, play the pack they select a bit, then disappear forever. Likely this provides turbine far more revenue then any of us veteran players could even begin to give them. Remember there's "a million plus" of them, and probably less then 10,000 of us.

The few that stick around mostly go vip to play the rest of content, hit 20 and end it.

The even fewer that stick around past 20 (us) .. We're really not of significant value to the marketing team.

So they make content where the money is.

Update 3 = The last good update ddo may ever see
Update 4 = lvl5-8
Update 5 = lvl4-7
Update 6 = lvl6-9
Update 7 = low lvl stuff again they already said for new players playing half orcs. Probably something theme'd around the half orcs coming.
Update 8 = Take a guess.

Unless they can convice us to pay like 10 times as much for high lvl content (which they cant) they are going to stick on this path of uneven content distribtution.

DING DING DING! Someone give that man a cigar!! Instead of high level content you'll have to content yourselves with ammenities, hearts of wood, bank slots, character slots and now the new guild stuff all available for sale at the Turbine store...

[Auran82]

DING DING DING! Someone give that man a cigar!! Instead of high level content you'll have to content yourselves with ammenities, hearts of wood, bank slots, character slots and now the new guild stuff all available for sale at the Turbine store...

The simple fact is, those casual players, while numerous, wont be flowing in and out forever, at some point, the ones that stick around are going to hit the high levels on a couple of characters and get sick of it.

Is Turbine ready for when the new 'endless' players start to slow down? I honestly don't know, but I suspect they are counting on them for some time to come.