20th level: Protection from Elements worth a spell slot?

[Carpone]

As a 20th level FvS, is there any epic content that justifies having a spell slot devoted to Protection from Elements? I'm having a hard time identifying where an initial 120 points soaked by the spell would be worth spending the spellpoints *and* a spell slot, instead of just healing the damage. I'm currently carrying Stalwart Pact, True Seeing, Greater Command and Mass Cure Light Wounds at 5th level. (No Raise Dead, I already have Res and True Res.)

Likewise for Mass Protection from Elements. No doubt on paper it looks like good SP:damage prevention. But is it compelling enough to devote a spell slot for it instead of just healing the damage? I currently run Resurrection, Destruction and Mass Cure Serious Wounds for my 7th level spells.

[Matuse]

Protection from elements is crucial defense.

[Vorph]

I took Mass Protection but there hasn't been one single group or raid where an arcane caster didn't cast it first. I guess I should have known better than to swap for it, since I was aware that even sorcs have room to pick it up.

[Carpone]

Protection from elements is crucial defense.

Please convince me. To me Protection from Elements is like a beefier Mass Aid, which I also think is not worth the spell points or spell slot.

[Xionanx]

On a class with limited spell selections, I would NOT pick up protection from elements. There are too many other classes that can get Mass protection from elements, and likely will have it. Finally it is my opinion, and this shows constantly when I'm not on my wizard, that people are ******** when it comes to the difference between PROTECTION from and RESIST.

If given the choice between casting a Resist Elements or a Protection from elements, I'll cast the resist every time. Yet for some lame reason when I'm in a party on my non-caster and ask for a resist, people will constantly toss a protection on me. If the mobs are only doing 20-40 elemental damage a hit, a resist will go a LOT further then a protect.

Kinda off the topic I suppose, but its a pet peeve of mine

[Vynnt]

Please convince me. To me Protection from Elements is like a beefier Mass Aid, which I also think is not worth the spell points or spell slot.

There are times when Protection from elements helps a lot, mostly in raids. Examples: Throwing up a protection right before the bats in VoD, helps a lot. A protection for the kiter (and even the group) in part 2 of ToD allows the members to take a few more hits from the shadow's aura. A protection can prevent the death of a low hp person in shroud when taking a blast.

Although, like mentioned, a lot of casters tend to have it, so its not a huge issue if you don't take it.

[Matuse]

Please convince me.

4 detonator bats in VoD go off at once.
With protection: Nobody dies.
Without protection: Half of the raid turns into stones.

Trying to activate a door or lever when a caster monster is throwing high damage cold/fire/lightning at you...when protection absorbs the damage, it doesn't interrupt anything.

[PopeJual]

Throwing a new Mass Protection from Elements on the melee group every 10 seconds or so makes a very big difference in my Shroud experiences, but I'm speaking from an Arcane caster's perspective. If you can convince the arcane caster to throw up repeated Mass Protection from Elements, then even those squishy Rogues will usually survive.

Can't say whether it's worthwhile for a FvS, though.

[Xionanx]

Throwing a new Mass Protection from Elements on the melee group every 10 seconds or so makes a very big difference in my Shroud experiences, but I'm speaking from an Arcane caster's perspective. If you can convince the arcane caster to throw up repeated Mass Protection from Elements, then even those squishy Rogues will usually survive.

Can't say whether it's worthwhile for a FvS, though.

I'm assuming your talking about the last to fights in the shroud. At which point I would say my SP is better spent:

Exhausting
Fatiguing
Cloud Killing for the concealment
and then spamming DPS spells and Haste every few minutes (if the fight lasts that long)

Once again the elemental type damage he does is not significant enough to "seriously" damage anyone IF they have a RESIST up that would reduce all incoming damage by 30. If your healer cant mass heal the melee's enough to take care of the elemental type of damage that got through, then there is something wrong.

Finally, wouldn't the "Rogue's" be evading his fireballs anyway? How does it help them at all? I mean, unless I'm completely wrong here?

[Matuse]

Harry's meteor swarms and delayed blast fireballs kind of make a joke out of a measely 30 points of fire resist.

And his save DC is sufficient that I see 40+ dex rogues and monks fail it all the time.

I alternate heals with mass protection. You can't ever rely on an arcane to have it. Particularly Sorcs, who have WAY too much on their plate as it is for choosing level 7 spells.

[Khellendros13]

True Seeing comes on scrolls, Protection from Elements does not.

Helpful if you are like me and forget what resists are needed for what quest - see what element is getting depleted and apply the appropriate resist.

Those 40+ dex rogues and monks must have no resist item or GH, because my fighter/rogue with 30-32 ref save raid buffed sees a tonne of "save" messages scroll up form Harry's DBF and the fire ellie's fireball. On normal, unless you are talking about Elite runs.

[PopeJual]

I'm assuming your talking about the last to fights in the shroud. At which point I would say my SP is better spent:

Exhausting
Fatiguing
Cloud Killing for the concealment
and then spamming DPS spells and Haste every few minutes (if the fight lasts that long)

Once again the elemental type damage he does is not significant enough to "seriously" damage anyone IF they have a RESIST up that would reduce all incoming damage by 30. If your healer cant mass heal the melee's enough to take care of the elemental type of damage that got through, then there is something wrong.

Waves of Exhaustion and Fatigue are the frist spells that I toss out when Harry lands. I didn't know about Cloud Kill for concealment until earlier this week, but that's now spell number 3 that I cast. Rage and Haste are easy to keep up since they last 4-ish minutes and hopefully the fight won't last long enough to need a third RageHhaste application and with luck you won't need a second.

As for the rest, it's just Polar Rays and more Polar Rays. If you throw a dozen Polar Rays, why not try 9 polar rays and 3 Prot Elements? It takes some pressure off the squishier folks and it only costs spell points, not any significant extra time since Polar Ray has a cooldown that you can use to cast the Mass Prot.

...and if the healers can mass heal/cure ALL of the melee folks through rounds 4/5, then I'll be very happy. Usually there's a melee type or two that either doesn't have enough Fort or just plain doesn't have enough HP to be in the close-up fight, but they're here anyway, so I try to make the best of it.

Finally, wouldn't the "Rogue's" be evading his fireballs anyway? How does it help them at all? I mean, unless I'm completely wrong here?

I'd hope that the Rogues would be evading everything, but Rogues die faster than any other class that I see in the Shroud. I'm sure that there are amazing melee Rogues out there that have enough HP to stand up to Harry in melee. I just don't often see them in the Shroud PUGs that I join. I don't know if it is the 1's that they roll for saves or if it's just getting beat up by Harry's direct phyiscal attacks, but I don't tend to count Rogues as DPS in the shroud when I'm counting melee types because a soulstone has a terrible attack rate.

Should you need repeated applications of Mass Protection from Elements in rounds 4/5? Certainly not. You also shouldn't need to cast Neutralize Poison in rounds 4/5 either. And you shouldn't need to cast Death Ward in rounds 2/4/5 because everyone should be able to handle those two spells on their own with potions or clickies. That's not how PUGs work, though. PUGs need a little more hand holding and a little more TLC from the folks who can offer it.

I think that EVERYONE who shows up to the Shroud should be able to survive a DBF or a Meteor Swarm to the face and stay standing, but not everyone who takes characters into the Shroud apparently agrees with me because I see an awful lot of squishies showing up to PUGs.

[johnnyputrid]

True Seeing comes on scrolls, Protection from Elements does not.

The Portable Hole sells Protection from Elements scrolls.

[Vorph]

Scrolls only give 50 pts of protection so they're useless. It's like SR; if you want it you need to cast it yourself.

[johnnyputrid]

Scrolls only give 50 pts of protection so they're useless. It's like SR; if you want it you need to cast it yourself.

You are thinking of Protection from Energy scrolls, the low-level ones where you need to individually select the type of protection. Protection from Elements scrolls are CL 9 and give 108 points of protection against all 5 elements for 9 minutes. Obviously not as good as a longer-lasting self-cast 150-point protection, but with a 30 resist (or 40 with the class feats) and a scroll up you can safely ignore 138 (148) points of a particular elemental damage type - not really all that bad for a scroll.

[Carpone]

If you throw a dozen Polar Rays, why not try 9 polar rays and 3 Prot Elements? It takes some pressure off the squishier folks and it only costs spell points, not any significant extra time since Polar Ray has a cooldown that you can use to cast the Mass Prot.

...and if the healers can mass heal/cure ALL of the melee folks through rounds 4/5, then I'll be very happy. Usually there's a melee type or two that either doesn't have enough Fort or just plain doesn't have enough HP to be in the close-up fight, but they're here anyway, so I try to make the best of it.

If people don't have the hit points to perform their function, then they shouldn't be there in the first place. I'm not going to justify taking Protection from Elements to enable someone who built/itemized their character poorly. I'd rather they die in Shroud and learn how valuable HP is while raiding, rather than enabling their poor choices. Filter out poorly optimized characters before they hit ToD where dying really matters.

Back on topic: The only time I've seen Protection from Elements come into play is for the shadow kiter in ToD. While it's not key to surviving, the 120 cold damage absorbed (along with fire shield/ToD ring absorption) allows for kiting mistakes/melee-induced lag on elite.

BTW, it's 10 points absorbed per caster level (120 max). If scrolls are CL 9, then a 30 point difference isn't huge. Between the minor mitigation difference, the low frequency use and other spells being more desired, I'm pretty much sold on using scrolls over devoting a spell slot.

I took Mass Protection but there hasn't been one single group or raid where an arcane caster didn't cast it first. I guess I should have known better than to swap for it, since I was aware that even sorcs have room to pick it up.

Sorcerers don't have room to pick up Mass Protection. Waves of Exhaustion, Finger of Death, Otto's Sphere of Dancing, and Delayed Blast Fireball are all better choices. Sorcerers can only have three level 7 spells.

[Zombiekenny]

Those 150 points get ate up so fast that you will need to keep casting it. Personally, I would rather not have the 4 useless icons in my buff bar taking space, and keeping so I cant see timers on buffs that are short term and matter.

[Matuse]

Those 150 points get ate up so fast that you will need to keep casting it.

And the fact that those points get eaten up so fast doesn't trigger a connection with the value of having the protection active?

K...

[muffinlad]

Those 150 points get ate up so fast that you will need to keep casting it. Personally, I would rather not have the 4 useless icons in my buff bar taking space, and keeping so I cant see timers on buffs that are short term and matter.

Thats pretty much why it should be cast....

OTOH, I do agree that this is not an optimum FvS spell. Clerics and Wizards can toss the MassProts. Sorcs and FvS have other buffs that they can use to keep the party up, and combined with heal/damage output, serve a slightly different purpose.

muffinflave

[Khellendros13]

The Portable Hole sells Protection from Elements scrolls.

Mass Protection from Elements? If so, I am mistaken and missed those somehow.