Suggestions for Renown (and breaking down Von1 Epic grinding)

[Okram]

So the devs have said that currently the renown system is not working as intended, and I can accept that. We all want to get renown as quickly as possible for the competition, and we will when the this update hits live because all guilds will want to try out all the new shinys!

I decided to start keeping track of the numbers while helping my guild farm renown in Epic Von 1 (yes, the secret is out, sorry to those who thought it was so brilliant) and here are my humble results:

After 70 runs (of killing the first 7 mobs), killing 490 monsters, I saw a bag drop rate per monster of 10.61% We could say I was probably a little on the lucky side, and it's most likely a 1/10 drop rate for monsters to drop a loot bag.

Of the 52 loot bags I saw, 6 had renown in it, for a drop rate of 11.54% per bag or 1.22% per monster. The renown per bag ratio is either 1/8 or 1/7, would need more testing for an exact figure, but my best guess it's one or the other.

Once pulled a renown, the amount you get in epic Von1 almost exactly followed: 45% gave 50, 45% gave 150, 5% gave 500, and 5% gave 1000.

The bag drop rates might be different from different mobs, but I have seen devs mention it's supposed to be the same.

So, it is the intention of the devs for players to NOT farm loot bags for renown, I have seen this said multiple times. It is, however, the intention of the players to get as much renown as we can as fast as possible. So I would like to offer a few humble suggestions to the devs on ways to make running full quests more appealing other than just going around nerfing loot bag drop rates:

-Increase the renown drop rate in end rewards significantly. Right now it's incredibly rare, almost unseen. I would suggest it should be as high as 50% chance, maybe 1/3 chance.
-Increase lower limit of renown drops from chests and end rewards in high level quests. IE: a lvl 19 quests should not drop 50 renown from an end reward.
-Include large sums of renown in raid loot tables. Make it a rare find in warded chests where you could get hugs sums of renown, also something that pops up on the 20th run like other raid loot items (oh the horror of choosing between a +3 con tome, or 10,000 guild renown!)

Be also nice if a Dev could tell me if my numbers were accurate

[MadFloyd]

So the devs have said that currently the renown system is not working as intended, and I can accept that. We all want to get renown as quickly as possible for the competition, and we will when the this update hits live because all guilds will want to try out all the new shinys!

I decided to start keeping track of the numbers while helping my guild farm renown in Epic Von 1 (yes, the secret is out, sorry to those who thought it was so brilliant) and here are my humble results:

After 70 runs (of killing the first 7 mobs), killing 490 monsters, I saw a bag drop rate per monster of 10.61% We could say I was probably a little on the lucky side, and it's most likely a 1/10 drop rate for monsters to drop a loot bag.

Of the 52 loot bags I saw, 6 had renown in it, for a drop rate of 11.54% per bag or 1.22% per monster. The renown per bag ratio is either 1/8 or 1/7, would need more testing for an exact figure, but my best guess it's one or the other.

Once pulled a renown, the amount you get in epic Von1 almost exactly followed: 45% gave 50, 45% gave 150, 5% gave 500, and 5% gave 1000.

The bag drop rates might be different from different mobs, but I have seen devs mention it's supposed to be the same.

So, it is the intention of the devs for players to NOT farm loot bags for renown, I have seen this said multiple times. It is, however, the intention of the players to get as much renown as we can as fast as possible. So I would like to offer a few humble suggestions to the devs on ways to make running full quests more appealing other than just going around nerfing loot bag drop rates:

-Increase the renown drop rate in end rewards significantly. Right now it's incredibly rare, almost unseen. I would suggest it should be as high as 50% chance, maybe 1/3 chance.
-Increase lower limit of renown drops from chests and end rewards in high level quests. IE: a lvl 19 quests should not drop 50 renown from an end reward.
-Include large sums of renown in raid loot tables. Make it a rare find in warded chests where you could get hugs sums of renown, also something that pops up on the 20th run like other raid loot items (oh the horror of choosing between a +3 con tome, or 10,000 guild renown!)

Be also nice if a Dev could tell me if my numbers were accurate

Thank you VERY much for this post (and all the work involved in it). I believe your numbers ARE accurate (or very close), but I'm going by memory.

< whistles for Eladrin >

Thanks also for you suggestions. I totally agree that a level 19 quest shouldn't offer 50 renown as a quest reward.

[Borror0]

Honestly, I wish that monsters did not drop any renown. I personally loathe looting monsters' corpse. It is something from other MMOs that I was happy DDO did not include. It slows down the combat and quest progression too much. Putting something valuable in there makes it even worse. Consequently, it would also completely remove the chance for there to ever be a situation where "grinding mobs" the is the best way to acquire renown. It would all be about chests and end rewards.

If you really have to keep the corpse looting, then steal a page from FPS games and make us auto-pick the loot when we walk on it.

[Gol]

If you really have to keep the corpse looting, then steal a page from FPS games and make us auto-pick the loot when we walk on it.

For treasure bags, maybe. Can you imagine the grief this would cause for epic scrolls, though? Ugh...

[Borror0]

For treasure bags, maybe. Can you imagine the grief this would cause for epic scrolls, though? Ugh...

Ya. It would be a good idea for items like epic scrolls to have a warning message with a Yes/No option like for bound items, if that is done.

[Krag]

Ya. It would be a good idea for items like epic scrolls to have a warning message with a Yes/No option like for bound items, if that is done.

Epic scrolls shouldn't exist in the first place. I know, it was a good intention to give players something to do when they don't have time/group for an actual epic. But let's face it: farming scrolls is not fun. Ninja-looting is even less fun.

[Auran82]

Ya. It would be a good idea for items like epic scrolls to have a warning message with a Yes/No option like for bound items, if that is done.

Implement a Need/Greed/pass window like many other MMOs so when someone picks up a scroll people can choose to roll on it.

[Solmage]

For treasure bags, maybe. Can you imagine the grief this would cause for epic scrolls, though? Ugh...

Ugh, don't get me started on epic scrolls. The #1 change they need to add to epics is a message in the (Loot) channel when anyone in an instance picks up a scroll, even if it is auto-sent to an ingredients bag. Otherwise, you simply don't run them with anyone you don't trust, making epic pugging almost non-existent.

[Tendare]

After grinding Kobalt Assault and a few other quests this weekend for Heroic deeds I think that deeds should be rewards in the end chest for each person completing the quest in every dungeon and in optional chests.

Picking up every purple bag in quests and grinding same quests over and over is boring and unchallenging. Completing a dungeon and getting to that end chest is what makes the game interesting. Put the deeds just like your epic tokens in epic chests at the end. Base the points you get on the level of the dungeon and the difficulty of the quest.
Example:

1 person running KA on normal = 50 points each player
1 person running KA on hard = 100 points each player
1 person running KA on elite 150 points each player
6 people running KA on normal = 300 points(50 points for each player and if they are not in the same guild each player still get points for their guild)

On higher level quests like Rainbow in the vale give 500 heroic points per person on normal, 1000 on hard and maybe 2000 on elite to each player.
Scale the points based on level of the dungeon.

I think if you do this you will improve the gameplay and make people excited about running quests and gaining guild reknown. Not adding to the grindefest.

[Riggs]

For treasure bags, maybe. Can you imagine the grief this would cause for epic scrolls, though? Ugh...

Simple.

Just like chests, just like tokens, collectables, any epic loot drops for everyone, not whoever ninjas it first.

[Okram]

so... now that we're done *****ing about epic tokens, how about renown?

[Samadhi]

Honestly, I wish that monsters did not drop any renown. I personally loathe looting monsters' corpse. It is something from other MMOs that I was happy DDO did not include. It slows down the combat and quest progression too much. Putting something valuable in there makes it even worse. Consequently, it would also completely remove the chance for there to ever be a situation where "grinding mobs" the is the best way to acquire renown. It would all be about chests and end rewards.

If you really have to keep the corpse looting, then steal a page from FPS games and make us auto-pick the loot when we walk on it.

100% Agreed; especially on the auto-looting aspect. Otherwise, I personally see just not participating in yet another "feature" of the new ddo.

Edit: although I will say, 1 problem with renown only coming from chests/rewards, is that it is not a static/averaged method, and is as pliable to luck as the guy that gets all their loot within 20 runs as compared to the guy that has run every raid 40+ times and has never even seen a +3tome. Sure, with larger guilds it will average out, but for smaller ones...

[Borror0]

Edit: although I will say, 1 problem with renown only coming from chests/rewards, is that it is not a static/averaged method, and is as pliable to luck as the guy that gets all their loot within 20 runs as compared to the guy that has run every raid 40+ times and has never even seen a +3tome. Sure, with larger guilds it will average out, but for smaller ones...

That could be addressed by putting low renown items with a high drop percentage in chests. Like that, you would have lucky pull where you get high renown items and many cases where you get a small amount. That'd make it less luck reliant.

[Kraki]

I would rather personally see less likely larger rewards than lots of small rewards simply from an opportunity cost point of view.

We're already going to be facing a recurring plat drain in the form of hook point rentals for the airship. I wouldn't want to have to often choose to forgo high level item/weapon rewards for small guild renown amounts on a regular basis while facing those other new costs as well.

If the rental costs are reduced or turned into simply high buy-in costs for permanent items, I could go with smaller, more frequent renown drops and I'll just have to face that my characters' overall income will be reduced.

[dragonofsteel]

100% Agreed; especially on the auto-looting aspect. Otherwise, I personally see just not participating in yet another "feature" of the new ddo.

Edit: although I will say, 1 problem with renown only coming from chests/rewards, is that it is not a static/averaged method, and is as pliable to luck as the guy that gets all their loot within 20 runs as compared to the guy that has run every raid 40+ times and has never even seen a +3tome. Sure, with larger guilds it will average out, but for smaller ones...

See I hate luck running the game, sorry it should be who every earns it. Not some dumb luck guild A pull more 1k bags then guild B. If want to make competition then let it be a fair one. Yes numbers do even out, but can one guild be running at 7 to 8% 1k bags while the other is running 12 to 12%. See seen post saying 5% 1k bags and I was thinking more like 10%. Did not run the numbers to the max but I pull 3 1k bags in 1hour and half, max 30 bags looted, more in like 25 bags looted. Pull 4 500 bags and 6 150 bags the rest were 50. Looking at way different percentage then person above. If want to make a concept that is like a competition then make it one, not this dumb luck. I will never care about being first, because plan and simple dont have the time some do. I do agree with the other numbers though

[Vhlad]

Honestly, I wish that monsters did not drop any renown. I personally loathe looting monsters' corpse. It is something from other MMOs that I was happy DDO did not include. It slows down the combat and quest progression too much. Putting something valuable in there makes it even worse. Consequently, it would also completely remove the chance for there to ever be a situation where "grinding mobs" the is the best way to acquire renown. It would all be about chests and end rewards.

If you really have to keep the corpse looting, then steal a page from FPS games and make us auto-pick the loot when we walk on it.

Agree in full.

Epic scrolls shouldn't exist in the first place. I know, it was a good intention to give players something to do when they don't have time/group for an actual epic. But let's face it: farming scrolls is not fun. Ninja-looting is even less fun.

Also agree.

Edit:
If the intent of looting corpses is to encourage us not to zerg, or to kill everything, then: spawn or unlock extra chests based on the conquest bonus.

[Angelus_dead]

I personally loathe looting monsters' corpse.

However there's verisimilitude to it.

If you really have to keep the corpse looting, then steal a page from FPS games and make us auto-pick the loot when we walk on it.

But it takes zero seconds... there's no animation or delay.

[Borror0]

However there's verisimilitude to it.

I know but I'll go with Blizzard's #1 rule: gameplay first.

[Kromize]

Honestly, I wish that monsters did not drop any renown. I personally loathe looting monsters' corpse. It is something from other MMOs that I was happy DDO did not include. It slows down the combat and quest progression too much. Putting something valuable in there makes it even worse. Consequently, it would also completely remove the chance for there to ever be a situation where "grinding mobs" the is the best way to acquire renown. It would all be about chests and end rewards.

If you really have to keep the corpse looting, then steal a page from FPS games and make us auto-pick the loot when we walk on it.

Hmm...grinding mobs...like...von 5 puzzle room...infinite respawns...infinite grind...hmm...they just might wanna think about that...

[Rydlic]

I see these number, and they say to me "you will grind to get there, and you will grind to stay there."

I don't want to grind, I don't want to set up guild grind groups (GGG) to get renown. It should be natural. A part of questing/exploring and such.

Optional Chest, ones that unlock or appear when an optional in quest bad guy has been offed, these should have a higher chance to drop Renown. They are, as stated, Optional. If you go out of your way to do the optional why does not constitute Renown, but digging through a bag that a dead Kobold/Hobgoblin leaves behind will.

There is a quest in the Market, Red Fang the Unruled, it has a reward system that is unique in the game. You kill an optional and you get a chest, but also, if you turn in the drop item from said optional the quest giver will give you another award. I have wondered, since the first time I ran this, why no other quest giver will pat you on the back for taking care of optional objectives like that. This screams as a way to hand out Renown, every time you turn in a quest, get a pat on the back for the optional that you took out and a possible Renown hand out.