Double strike balance issues

[FluffyCalico]

They have said there will be loot and enhancements and maybe even buffs that grant double strike.

Since x double strike gives x% boost to 2hf and only about x(.7) to twf how are they ever EVER going to balance double strike? This sets up to where the 2 compared poorly geared will be completely different in balance then the 2 very well geared. It seems the better the gear the 2 have the closer the DPS will get or that at the very top of the best geared people that THF might pass twf. How can they balance something that is by design ment to not be balanced and will vary greatly from person to person how much of it they have?

[Visty]

doublestrike gives twf more then thf actually

[R0cksteady]

doublestrike gives twf more then thf actually

How so?

[Visty]

How so?

lets take a paladin as example:
THF 100% mainhand, 110% mainhand with zeal
TWF 100% mainhand / 80% offhand, 110%/88% with zeal

so for twf its effecticly +18%

[Sinni]

lets take a paladin as example:
THF 100% mainhand, 110% mainhand with zeal
TWF 100% mainhand / 80% offhand, 110%/88% with zeal

so for twf its effecticly +18%

didn't they say double strike can not proc an offhand attack? or was that changed?

[Aesop]

lets take a paladin as example:
THF 100% mainhand, 110% mainhand with zeal
TWF 100% mainhand / 80% offhand, 110%/88% with zeal

so for twf its effecticly +18%

did they change what they are doin with Zeal?

Zeal is +10% to DS I thought.

which would be 110/80


DS ONLY applies to main hand last we heard

Aesop

[FluffyCalico]

lets take a paladin as example:
THF 100% mainhand, 110% mainhand with zeal
TWF 100% mainhand / 80% offhand, 110%/88% with zeal

so for twf its effecticly +18%

wrong # 1 it does't make 88% off hand. You can not proc an off hand off of a double strike. If you could it would be balanced.
#2 even if you could it still would be only 10% more dps which would be exactly even with what thf gets.

IE 10% more main and 10% (88/80) more off hand=10% more dps not 18%

Again if it worked like you say it would be balanced, but it doesn't work that way.

[BlackSteel]

and TWF recieve a much stronger benefit (more so than double strike for THF) out of practically every other buff/enchancement in the game. bard buffs, set bonuses to damage, favored enemy, weapon spec, prayer, etc. all give TWF more benefit than THF, and you feel the need to complain about this?

hey lets just go ahead and make power attack 1 to 1 for THF as well, and reduce the kensai bonuses to the same too. cause we all know that THF does too much damage already....

you do realize that except for one weapon in the game, that TWF does more damage before and after the nerf than THF? and that one weapon is mostly used for trash, which are almost always in autocrit, which in turn TWF >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THF. did I include enough arrows?

[R0cksteady]

and TWF recieve a much stronger benefit (more so than double strike for THF) out of practically every other buff/enchancement in the game. bard buffs, set bonuses to damage, favored enemy, weapon spec, prayer, etc. all give TWF more benefit than THF, and you feel the need to complain about this?

hey lets just go ahead and make power attack 1 to 1 for THF as well, and reduce the kensai bonuses to the same too. cause we all know that THF does too much damage already....

you do realize that except for one weapon in the game, that TWF does more damage before and after the nerf than THF? and that one weapon is mostly used for trash, which are almost always in autocrit, which in turn TWF >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THF. did I include enough arrows?

Actually after the nerf, the ESOS does less damage than dual kopeshes. As it should be.

[FluffyCalico]

and TWF recieve a much stronger benefit (more so than double strike for THF) out of practically every other buff/enchancement in the game. bard buffs, set bonuses to damage, favored enemy, weapon spec, prayer, etc. all give TWF more benefit than THF, and you feel the need to complain about this?

hey lets just go ahead and make power attack 1 to 1 for THF as well, and reduce the kensai bonuses to the same too. cause we all know that THF does too much damage already....

you do realize that except for one weapon in the game, that TWF does more damage before and after the nerf than THF? and that one weapon is mostly used for trash, which are almost always in autocrit, which in turn TWF >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THF. did I include enough arrows?

This not about if the 2 are balanced now. I am not claiming that THF needs the nerf thats comming. What I am saying is if they put this in there the 2 classes will no longer be possible to ever balance. IE would you balance them for poor gear or good gear or great gear. If they put this in it becomes impossible to ever get balance again.

[mediocresurgeon]

Actually after the nerf, the ESOS does less damage than dual kopeshes.

Then you two are in agreement.

I was going to point out that every +damage buff gives TWFers almost twice the damage it gives to THFers, so the fact that Doublestrike might favor THF slightly is no big deal. But someone already beat me to it

[Visty]

so, even if a doublestrike attack cant proc an offhand attack (which isnt proven), then its still +10% for both and totally equal.
nothing like the x(.7) in the OP

[BlackSteel]

you know what? I was going to track down the math post showing the nerfed eSoS doing 5% more than dual GS khopeshes. But frankly its probably better for you not to see that anyway.

[BlackSteel]

This not about if the 2 are balanced now. I am not claiming that THF needs the nerf thats comming. What I am saying is if they put this in there the 2 classes will no longer be possible to ever balance. IE would you balance them for poor gear or good gear or great gear. If they put this in it becomes impossible to ever get balance again.

but you can say the exact same thing for every buff in the game currently. Only 3 things currently scale between the fighting styles. Power attack, strength, and kensai weapon enhancements. If double strike should be coded to be more friendly to TWF, then bard buffs should give double the bonus to THF.

[Shade]

didn't they say double strike can not proc an offhand attack? or was that changed?

What they say and what actually happens on the server are two extremely different things in this game.

Not only can double strike proc offhand attacks, but it always does. And offhand attacks can proc double strikes. It's alomst an endless loop of procs.

You get as many as 5-7 attacks per swing the way it is now.

[Mister_Peace]

lets take a paladin as example:
THF 100% mainhand, 110% mainhand with zeal
TWF 100% mainhand / 80% offhand, 110%/88% with zeal

so for twf its effecticly +18%

You fail at math.

so, even if a doublestrike attack cant proc an offhand attack (which isnt proven), then its still +10% for both and totally equal.
nothing like the x(.7) in the OP

You fail at math again.

[FluffyCalico]

so, even if a doublestrike attack cant proc an offhand attack (which isnt proven), then its still +10% for both and totally equal.
nothing like the x(.7) in the OP

1) not proven? How about the read the DEV comment in the origional thread where they specifically say it.
2) Show me this math of yours that says 10% to main hand attacks=10% dps boost. As that could only be true if your offhand dps was 0-DPS. 10% main hand boost is about 7% overall DPS boost. IE the X(.7)

[BlackSteel]

What they say and what actually happens on the server are two extremely different things in this game.

Not only can double strike proc offhand attacks, but it always does. And offhand attacks can proc double strikes. It's alomst an endless loop of procs.

You get as many as 5-7 attacks per swing the way it is now.

which doesnt really matter at all, considering how can you really evaulate the double strike system currently when its completely broken.

somethings not working right when palidans and monks get 100% double strike all the time

[Shade]

which doesnt really matter at all,

shadow we already got it from your last 50 posts that all these changes to the combat system don't matter to you. You really don't need to continue, we get it.

But for allot of us, how badly there messing up the game does matter to us.
So show some respect for your community and stop posting things that really don't contribute anything to the topic.

[FluffyCalico]

somethings not working right when palidans and monks get 100% double strike all the time

Not going to argue with that lol.