Double strike balance issues

[BlackSteel]

shadow we already got it from your last 50 posts that all these changes to the combat system don't matter to you. You really don't need to continue, we get it.

But for allot of us, how badly there messing up the game does matter to us.
So show some respect for your community and stop posting things that really don't contribute anything to the topic.

hahahahaha

thats really funny, you have some awful big blinders on fella

oh and once again, its just for u

[Visty]

2) Show me this math of yours that says 10% to main hand attacks=10% dps boost. As that could only be true if your offhand dps was 0-DPS. 10% main hand boost is about 7% overall DPS boost. IE the X(.7)

theres no math which shows 10% = +10% DPS
but you werent talking about that, you were talking about 10% doublestrike
and that is equal to all fighting styles

twf gets 10% mainhand, thf gets 10% mainhand

its balanced

[SteeleTrueheart]

which doesnt really matter at all, considering how can you really evaulate the double strike system currently when its completely broken.

somethings not working right when palidans and monks get 100% double strike all the time

It has been bugged and it will be fixed.

[FluffyCalico]

twf gets 10% mainhand, thf gets 10% mainhand

its balanced

wrong thf gets 10% bothhand twf gets 10% mainhand not the same.
troll somewhere else

[Visty]

wrong thf gets 10% bothhand twf gets 10% mainhand not the same.
troll somewhere else

thf has no offhand, they just have a mainhand

we know that you dont like the changes but thats no excuse to make up things

[Aaxeyu]

thf has no offhand, they just have a mainhand

we know that you dont like the changes but thats no excuse to make up things

THF mainhand > TWF mainhand, hence double strike favors THF.

[BlackSteel]

It has been bugged and it will be fixed.

I'm sure it has, my point was simply how can you effectively evaluate it in its current bugged state? you have classes with 100% proc chance, you have a dev saying its mainhand only and should not proc offhand, and you have Shade saying endless cycle blah blah blah

actually i see a trend here:
bugged new feature
clueless dev (or they plopped down a very much outdated preview server again)
and a player completely speaking out his ***

[R0cksteady]

THF mainhand > TWF mainhand, hence double strike favors THF.

That depends if offhand procs can proc on doublestrikes, which it seems like they do.

[FluffyCalico]

thf has no offhand, they just have a mainhand

we know that you dont like the changes but thats no excuse to make up things

Actually THF has no main hand attack. They only have a bothhand attack so I guess they should not get any double strike according to you. If you think they have a main hand only attack try putting something else in that off hand then attacking with your greataxe

But aside from that it does not change the facts which are THF get the full x% dps boost and TWF gets about (.7)X% dps boost from it.

Now stop play games.

[Aesop]

Actually THF has no main hand attack. They only have a bothhand attack so I guess they should not get any double strike according to you. If you think they have a main hand only attack try putting something else in that off hand then attacking with your greataxe

Eladrin stated that THF counts as Main Hand ...

as an aside

Why not allow Bucklers in that off hand for TWF... I mean its what its there for and would make bucklers actually useful.

Just apply an attack penalty say -2 to attack and you get some nifty off hand benefits... probably mostly Guard effects or Resistance effects

Aesop

[FluffyCalico]

Eladrin stated that THF counts as Main Hand ...

as an aside

Why not allow Bucklers in that off hand for TWF... I mean its what its there for and would make bucklers actually useful.

Just apply an attack penalty say -2 to attack and you get some nifty off hand benefits... probably mostly Guard effects or Resistance effects

Aesop

Well actually my sig for the first 2 years of the game was
"Please fix bucklers they are not supposed to take a hand slot"
And instead one day they turned my +5 mithril buckler into a +5 mithril small shield Guess that was their way of saying NO
But I wasn't thinking buckler +weapon ...I was thinking should be able to hold an item in that hand like a septer as you are supposed to be able to hold something in that hand like a latern and stuff

[Boromirs]

They have said there will be loot and enhancements and maybe even buffs that grant double strike.

My only thought to that is W T F? That means that any joe shmoe can get the fighter capstone and/or Paladin capstone, what is the point of getting these then?... I mean unless they stack on the capstones or something.

[Seikojin]

The offhand doublestrike procs on Lam is a bug and I am sure it will be fixed.

I do think that doublestrike should be more common for THF and not TWF. Like a 20% difference. Maybe 30.

I think items boosting doubestrike is cool.

Genji gloves?

I think it is a nice way to fill the gap made by tweaking the offhand attack system. I think though that barring offhand attacks procing offhand doublestrikes, I think more than the initial mainhand attack should offer a doublestrike chance (going off what is written in the rel notes).

[Aashrym]

That depends if offhand procs can proc on doublestrikes, which it seems like they do.

It does appear they do. I'm really hoping that's WAI and not a bug.

I haven't seen my offhand proc a doublestrike. That is starting to sound a bit messy.

[Deathseeker]

If it's an issue, not sure why they can't make the buff on gear to be different for THF than for TWF. Kensai already has different bonuses for TWF and THF styles. I'd think they could do that with gear as well so that it's balanced as needed.

[Angelus_dead]

They have said there will be loot and enhancements and maybe even buffs that grant double strike.

Yes, it's true that's a big balance problem. In the official feedback thread I complained a lot about how the Warchanter Doublestrike song will probably be overpowered (unless it's too weak to be noticeable, which is also bad).

This sets up to where the 2 compared poorly geared will be completely different in balance then the 2 very well geared.

Uh, it is already the case that THF and TWF combat styles benefit to a different extent from better gear and buffs.

Simply imagine you provide the character with a Red Dragon item which adds 1d6 Flaming to all his attacks. In the time it takes for a THF to get 100d6 extra from that, the TWF gets 180d6 (assuming "twitching" is fixed). Effects which provide a bonus on each hit naturally favor TWF more. You could say that Inspire Courage is biased towards TWF, for example.

So maybe the devs are trying to add this Doublestrike bonus to counterbalance that, by making an effect which favors THF more. I am very skeptical it can balance it completely (especially since the amount of preparation effort is itself imbalanced), but that may be the idea.

[Angelus_dead]

My only thought to that is W T F? That means that any joe shmoe can get the fighter capstone and/or Paladin capstone, what is the point of getting these then?... I mean unless they stack on the capstones or something.

Yes, they do say that the different sources of Doublestrike stack... seriously, is it hard to read Eladrin's posts?

[Aashrym]

Yes, it's true that's a big balance problem. In the official feedback thread I complained a lot about how the Warchanter Doublestrike song will probably be overpowered (unless it's too weak to be noticeable, which is also bad).

I thought about those comments quite a bit too. I think you are right if there are too many stacking bonuses those can get way out of hand. A 5% bonus at the tier III warchanter sound better than the 10% I was thinking. A BAB bonus like you suggested at the tier II as a self only buff sounds reasonable. Both do seem to be the spirit of the PrE.

Keeping the duration of either bonus shorter or longer can smooth balance issues.

[TiranBlade]

This set switches Wind Stance and Tempest III to doublestrike bonuses, increases the benefits of the TWF feat chain...

Off hand attacks now have a chance to proc (trigger) off of any main hand attacks based on the number of two weapon fighting feats (and related enhancements) you possess. (Instead of being predetermined on certain attacks in the attack chain.)

A new mechanic has been introduced called "double strike". A character with a double strike chance has a chance to make an additional attack roll with their main hand weapon any time they make a main hand attack, on the target of the first attack.

Off Hand Strikes on a Double Strike isn't a bug, it's WAI.

[TiranBlade]

In Addition: I am starting to think by the way Eladrin has posted Double Strike falling under the 110% for Fighter Alacrity and 105% for Ranger Tempest III, that if a Bonus gets to say 205% you now have a 100% chance for a Double Strike and a 5% Chance for a Triple Strike. But the likeliness of someone getting that high a bonus is not very likely.

But if that becomes true then it would make sense that someone should Off Hand Strike on a Double Strike/Triple Strike.