So now that we know the nerf isn't getting rid of DPS lag

[FluffyCalico]

SOS was nerfed but ever so slightly and I would be willing to say that no TWF build in the game with any equipment can top a good 2HF build with the ever so slight new nerfed S.O.S. when it comes to DPS. .

LOL Keep wishing

[BlackSteel]

So why nerf 2WF when the SOS 2hf still puts out more DPS? Well there always the effect issue like vorpal which is to some degree still viable in the game.

30% reduction in power not good enough for yah? now it pretty much fulfills the same role as the original SoS with a marginal damage increase. big whoopie

kudos to you tho for not posting another 1000 w/p threads on your return

[Dendrix]

The lag issue could be solved most likely by turbine just spending some extra money on better hard ware and band with.

They just upgraded the hardware - the downtime for the datacenter upgrade was that. It didn't fix lag. So now different methods are being used. This has been covered several time.

[shadosatblackphoenix]

They just upgraded the hardware - the downtime for the datacenter upgrade was that. It didn't fix lag. So now different methods are being used. This has been covered several time.

the data center upgrade was for the login servers, not the gameplay servers.

[osirisisis]

30% reduction in power not good enough for yah? now it pretty much fulfills the same role as the original SoS with a marginal damage increase. big whoopie

kudos to you tho for not posting another 1000 w/p threads on your return

I don't know where your getting 30% I get like 8% to 10% on the DPS calculator depending on str.

8% to 10% is slight in my book when the W/P nerf made them just right above useless on the list...... You know I had to throw that in there.

Would U like to show what your plunging into the calculator to get 30%

[osirisisis]

LOL Keep wishing

Ya this one was a stretch.....

I'll remove it.

[grodon9999]

They just upgraded the hardware - the downtime for the datacenter upgrade was that. It didn't fix lag. So now different methods are being used. This has been covered several time.

And these new methods don't fix lag at all either.

[smatt]

I don't know where your getting 30% I get like 8% to 10% on the DPS calculator depending on str.

8% to 10% is slight in my book when the W/P nerf made them just right above useless on the list...... You know I had to throw that in there.

Would U like to show what your plunging into the calculator to get 30%

Oh for shame.. How dare you interupt thier little cable "news" show with reality....

[smatt]

the data center upgrade was for the login servers, not the gameplay servers.

Yep, but the one in Feb 09 was for the game servers... Didn't help... But who cares... There's not a single person posting that has a clue as to whether the changes they're attempting are affecting the load on the servers, and memory. While it's some what clear that so far what they've tried hasn't had the desired affect, it's not clear as to why. I think it's a whine overload... Too much whine... Not enough cheese.. More cheese would bring all of Xendrik back into balance...


So let me ask..... Does specualting or guessing about guessing or speculating make things fact? I mean if we speculate on speculation to the 10th does it eventually become fact?

[Eladiun]

Yep, but the one in Feb 09 was for the game servers... Didn't help... But who cares... There's not a single person posting that has a clue as to whether the changes they're attempting are affecting the load on the servers, and memory. While it's some what clear that so far what they've tried hasn't had the desired affect, it's not clear as to why. I think it's a whine overload... Too much whine... Not enough cheese.. More cheese would bring all of Xendrik back into balance...


So let me ask..... Does specualting or guessing about guessing or speculating make things fact? I mean if we speculate on speculation to the 10th does it eventually become fact?

Well, I can tell you for a fact that they have ZERO effect on on gameplay performance in high DPS lag envirions. Which is what they told us this change was all about. They pushed the threshold of DPS lag back....fantastic now I have 10 extra seconds before the lag monster turns Part 4 into a sad exercise in random heal spamming. Perception is Reality. You tell your customers that this patch has radical changes to fix DPS lag. They test it and percieve no improvement then the reality for them is that you failed and improved nothing at their expense. In reality, they could have streamlined the back end and their DPS server queues could be optimized better than ever but who cares if there is no percieved improvement in gameplay.

Or the whole thing could be just an excuse/smoke screen to grease through a huge nerf....

[Thrudh]

Twitch attack is nothing more then moving while attacking.
To remove that, is to to remove moving while attacking.

To do what you suggesting would mean that no one would be able to move while attacking anymore. Niot TWF, not THF, no rangers, and for balance, not even casters should be able to cast while moving.

What are you smoking Shade? You, of all people, understand how twitching works, so you're just outright lying here...

Fixing twitching requires fixing the attack chain, so that the time between swings is the same for all attacks... That's a huge change, possibly require redoing animations, so it may not be feasible...

But it has nothing to do with movement... You can still move, you'll do the exact same number of swings, you just lose the +5,+10 bonus on later swings. You'll do the exact same DPS when moving as when standing still (assuming you can hit on a 2 or higher without the later bonuses)

"Don't fix twitching... That means no one can move while attacking!" - Shade

LOL...

[Thrudh]

Also, the overall combat nerfs are minor... no builds have been broken...

And I don't work for Turbine.

[grodon9999]

Or the whole thing could be just an excuse/smoke screen to grease through a huge nerf....

I'm expecting the same, look at all the post of people talking about lag and chasing wild geese.

Bottom line is both THF and TWF are getting big nerfs, some classes more than others, and the "lag fix" is a smoke screen. I expect this to erupt when it goes live and many will be more annoyed that they are now.

[SquelchHU]

Could find find a different way to lower DPS? For both TWF AND THF?

The TWF nerf is breaking a lot of builds, and doesn't seem to be balanced as far as lowering all TWF DPS equally. It seems Tempests get the lowest nerf while monks and rogues take a big hit.''And THF is just an odd way to do it.

Why not scrap this idea since it didn't help the lag much, and just scale down the DPS? Maybe just lower attack speeds by 10% and fix the THF attack chain to stop twitching from happening?

The DPS nerf was never intended to fix DPS lag. They just tacked that on to confuse people.

Now if you're saying the DPS fix does not in fact fix DPS lag, then it's time to scrap the whole idea. No 'alternatives', just ctrl + alt + del.

Oh and you're wrong, Rangers are nerfed the most.

Edit: I read the first page. You made good points before, what happened?

[Solymnar]

Though as it starts to push the game away from the faster paced combat that gives it an edge over other, crappier, MMO's, the long term prospects are much more grim.

This

If I wanted to sit there and whack away for 5-15 minutes at every mob I come across and incorporate energy/health regen and downtime etc. etc. there are plenty of other MMOs to pick from.

DDO puts you in a dungeon with the tools and resources you brought with you. Your health and energy do not regen. Battles are not battles of attrition etc. Hard hits can potentially outright kill a player or mob. You make or break quests by how well you conserve resources in your fights and knowing when to burn them.

While I do not personally believe the upcoming changes to TWF etc. will destroy the game outright I also do not believe they are a step in the right direction.

[SquelchHU]

It makes the AA -vs- tempest choice an actual debate.

I can now go AA without hearing all the absolutists chime in with how gimped the toon is.

Ranger will still have the best stat damage output, the best chance of vorpal, banishing, disrupting, smiting, etc.

I like it because its more of a debate and not so clear cut like it used to be.

I could care less about numbers on paper, and I am more of a hands on implementation and results kinda guy. We dont play in the same vacuum you calc your DPS in, as this is a situational game.

Rangers, welcome to the gray area.

DID NOT DO THE RESEARCH.

Tempest is dead.

So no, it's not a choice. Gimp toon or gimp toon. Hm, I wonder which I should choose? Oh right, neither.

Oh and lol at offhand effects.

[smatt]

DID NOT DO THE RESEARCH.

Tempest is dead.

Who cares.... One trick pony players will just build the next one trick pony toon over and over and over.....

[SquelchHU]

Sorry, anyone of that opinion doesn't understand the game. 5 Tempest rangers and 4 monks last night (no barbs or fighters, we had 1 THF Paladin) utterly destroyed Harry in 1 round with 41 attacks/minute sucked out from under us.

Harry, part 4: 100,000 HP.
1 round = 90 seconds.

You have at least 10 melee. Therefore each melee needs to deal out at least 10,000 damage over 90 seconds for a 1 rounder.

That's... wait for it...

111.1 DPS each.

Just because most PUGs fail at it doesn't make it an accomplishment. You might as well be bragging about beating quests on Casual.

(For the record, for two melee to do it you'd need 555.55 DPS... numbers that weren't too hard to hit before the nerf. All this proves is that you need to use a real test of DPS.)

[grodon9999]

Harry, part 4: 100,000 HP.
1 round = 90 seconds.

You have at least 10 melee. Therefore each melee needs to deal out at least 10,000 damage over 90 seconds for a 1 rounder.

That's... wait for it...

111.1 DPS each.

Just because most PUGs fail at it doesn't make it an accomplishment. You might as well be bragging about beating quests on Casual.

(For the record, for two melee to do it you'd need 555.55 DPS... numbers that weren't too hard to hit before the nerf. All this proves is that you need to use a real test of DPS.)

Are you sure he only had 100k HP on normal in part IV? 111 DPS is pathetic, I think my 20 STR Cleric can do that.

[Creeper]

Also, the overall combat nerfs are minor... no builds have been broken...

I wonder, by saying the combat changes are minor and no builds have been broken—what experience/numbers are you using to base these statements on? Have you actually played on Lam yet? Serious question. What type of builds have you tested? I am curious what it was that you have done to come to this opinion.