Make Tenser's Transformation = Combat Expertise

[Aspenor]

Suggesting this here because of the beta agreement. Now that the tech is in place, please make Tenser's Transformation work like Combat Expertise. Double spell point usage while the spell is active. This will make the spell actually have a use, as opposed to being a hindrance the way it is now.

[Propane]

One of the better ideas I hear in a long time...

Now if you could just end it at will....

[Aesop]

Yeah making Tensers cost double works for me... but I would perfer that Combat Expertise had a solid modifier... like +20 SP... instead of the cost of 50-80 per spell

Aesop

[Roziel_Longblade]

Double sp cost

or
change stat and ac bonuses to Insight.

Either works for me.

[Rusty_Can]

/Signed.

[Roziel_Longblade]

Also clicky usage.

[sir_odin]

Just make it like Divine Power, maybe with restriction of not casting offensive spell. (bit step away from rules, but what is ddo?!?) That make this spell more used and we see alot of funny builds.

example:
12 sorc 6 pally 2 rouge/monk
16 sorc 2 pally 2 rouge/monk
11 wiz 9 monk
and so on......
had alot of these weird builds, but never used Tenser, since it screws up the point of the build, 2nd it freezes screen for 1-3s when entering leaving tenser. so better of with xDP clickies.

[Aspenor]

Just make it like Divine Power, maybe with restriction of not casting offensive spell. (bit step away from rules, but what is ddo?!?) That make this spell more used and we see alot of funny builds.

example:
12 sorc 6 pally 2 rouge/monk
16 sorc 2 pally 2 rouge/monk
11 wiz 9 monk
and so on......
had alot of these weird builds, but never used Tenser, since it screws up the point of the build, 2nd it freezes screen for 1-3s when entering leaving tenser. so better of with xDP clickies.

I have a 12sorc/6pal/2mnk, and it's one of my favorite characters. I would switch to 13sorc/5pal/2mnk in a flash, give up my pally PrE and take Tenser's.

I think it's pretty stupid that I run around with over 40 minutes of Divine Power clickies instead of using the arcane spell that should give me a similar benefit. When I say over 40 minutes, I mean literally over 40 minutes. I have 8 rings of divine power 5x/day.

[Lithic]

I have a 12sorc/6pal/2mnk, and it's one of my favorite characters. I would switch to 13sorc/5pal/2mnk in a flash, give up my pally PrE and take Tenser's.

I think it's pretty stupid that I run around with over 40 minutes of Divine Power clickies instead of using the arcane spell that should give me a similar benefit. When I say over 40 minutes, I mean literally over 40 minutes. I have 8 rings of divine power 5x/day.

Such a change would also be a small boon to rogues, who could then UMD their heal scrolls while still keeping up with the 1/1 BAB classes, get the cool armor thing, and not have to worry about refreshing a divine power scroll as often.


Wait, tensors doesnt turn off rogue skills like barb rage right...?

[Aspenor]

Wait, tensors doesnt turn off rogue skills like barb rage right...?

No clue, never tried due to the spellcasting lock.

[Eladrin]

I like that idea.

[Aesop]

I like that idea.

good. add it in



Aesop

[Quijonsith]

I like that idea.

There's a good sign =D

[moorewr]

I vote for ending the spell at will. Allowing casting while it is in effect goes against the source material.. as I know the OP knows..

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/transformation.htm

You become a virtual fighting machine—stronger, tougher, faster, and more skilled in combat. Your mind-set changes so that you relish combat and you can’t cast spells, even from magic items.

You gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, a +4 natural armor bonus to AC, a +5 competence bonus on Fortitude saves, and proficiency with all simple and martial weapons. Your base attack bonus equals your character level (which may give you multiple attacks).

You lose your spellcasting ability, including your ability to use spell trigger or spell completion magic items, just as if the spells were no longer on your class list.

[Lithic]

I vote for ending the spell at will. Allowing casting while it is in effect goes against the source material.. as I know the OP knows..

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/transformation.htm

The problem is that the spell doesnt translate well to DDO. First of all, anyone able to cast tensors already has str, con and barkskin items/potions that rival, if not exceed the spell. So much for making you stronger and tougher.

Second, tensors only lasts for one encounter in pen and paper, and would usually be cast near the middle to end when the caster decided his remaining spells were of little use. This never happens in DDO, as tensors will often last for 10 or 20 encounters (especially if extended, in which case literally hundreds of monsters die before it goes awa), and casters that have one usefull spell for an encounter can use up the rest of thier spellcasting resources on that spell, rather than having half their power stored up in knock, teleport, locate object, or other combat-useless spells.

Third, there is a lvl 4 divine spell that is easily available in clickie and UMDable scroll form, which lacks the major penalty of tensors, and even has a BETTER strength bonus (one which is actually usefull until about lvl 13 when most characters get their first +6 str item).

Having doubled spell casting costs simulates the penalty of this spell quite well, without making the spell complete garbage. IMO, the stat bonuses should also be made exceptional bonuses (perhaps dropped to +2, so they dont stack with tod rings/GS weapons), and the casting cost upped to triple. This would make the spell worthwhile, and casting under it's influence a very painfull experience. As a bonus, it would only be available to lvl 11+ casters, or UMD characters, and not everyone (and their dog) would carry 8 rings of 5x day tensors.

[moorewr]

The problem is that the spell doesnt translate well to DDO. First of all, anyone able to cast tensors already has str, con and barkskin items/potions that rival, if not exceed the spell. So much for making you stronger and tougher.

Second, tensors only lasts for one encounter in pen and paper, and would usually be cast near the middle to end when the caster decided his remaining spells were of little use. This never happens in DDO, as tensors will often last for 10 or 20 encounters (especially if extended, in which case literally hundreds of monsters die before it goes awa), and casters that have one usefull spell for an encounter can use up the rest of thier spellcasting resources on that spell, rather than having half their power stored up in knock, teleport, locate object, or other combat-useless spells.

Third, there is a lvl 4 divine spell that is easily available in clickie and UMDable scroll form, which lacks the major penalty of tensors, and even has a BETTER strength bonus (one which is actually usefull until about lvl 13 when most characters get their first +6 str item).

Having doubled spell casting costs simulates the penalty of this spell quite well, without making the spell complete garbage. IMO, the stat bonuses should also be made exceptional bonuses (perhaps dropped to +2, so they dont stack with tod rings/GS weapons), and the casting cost upped to triple. This would make the spell worthwhile, and casting under it's influence a very painfull experience. As a bonus, it would only be available to lvl 11+ casters, or UMD characters, and not everyone (and their dog) would carry 8 rings of 5x day tensors.

I see the above as grounds for a) revising the duration of Tenser's, b) allowing it to be ended at will, and c)) revisiting the game balance for Divine Power scrolls and items.

[Aspenor]

I vote for ending the spell at will. Allowing casting while it is in effect goes against the source material.. as I know the OP knows..

And the spell in the source material was never used, either. Just because something was poorly written in the source material doesn't mean it should be that way here.

[Aspenor]

I see the above as grounds for a) revising the duration of Tenser's, b) allowing it to be ended at will, and c)) revisiting the game balance for Divine Power scrolls and items.

Wrong. The spell, as written in 3.5, was stupid. It should be improved here. No wizard or sorcerer in their right mind would ever waste a spell or action casting Tenser's, and if they did do so they were a moron.

The spell should deviate from the RAW of 3.5 and allow spellcasting, at cost.

[moorewr]

And the spell in the source material was never used, either. Just because something was poorly written in the source material doesn't mean it should be that way here.

That's your opinion. I decline to to get sidetracked into a debate about the value of fidelity to the source game.

[kaelis]

Wrong. The spell, as written in 3.5, was stupid. It should be improved here. No wizard or sorcerer in their right mind would ever waste a spell or action casting Tenser's, and if they did do so they were a moron.

The spell should deviate from the RAW of 3.5 and allow spellcasting, at cost.

QFT. I once used tensers in PNP once... I died shortly thereafter, both a literal character death, and one of shame, where I was killed in a trap, that my magical spell casting self could have easily gotten out of. My party had to debate whether It was worth wasting the loot from recent adventures to raise me or not.