Make Tenser's Transformation = Combat Expertise

[Aesop]

I liked to see Tenser's amped up to fit DDO better. Something along the lines of:

Duration: 30 seconds + 6 seconds/level
Spell point cost: 15 SP

You gain an enhancement bonus to strength equal to DC.
You gain an enhancement bonus to constitution equal to DC/2.
You gain +4 natural armor bonus.
You gain moderate fortification.
Your base attack bonus equals your character level.

Your primary casting stat is reduced by the DC of the spell.
You gain +2 to your primary casting stat for each level of spell focus transmutation.

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IMO, this would fit the original spirit of Tenser's (allow a caster to be capable of melee) to the very powerful DDO world. It allows an opportunity for casting (with enhancement items & exceptional bonuses alone can cast 9th level spells).

With the impact to their SP pool (caused by losing primary stat) and the loss of their DC's, casters won't be in Tenser's all the time. The spell would become an excellent choice for low SP situations, adding a lot more fun than casters get waiting for SLA timers when down to echoes of power.

One of the old suggestions I made was to just make the stat bonuses +2 Exceptional Bonuses plus an additional +2 per 4 caster levels beyond 11. This would give +6 exceptional strength and con at caster level 19... this would limit the usefulness of scrolls as they would be CL 11 making the actual spell more valuable.

[FooWonk]

One of the old suggestions I made was to just make the stat bonuses +2 Exceptional Bonuses plus an additional +2 per 4 caster levels beyond 11. This would give +6 exceptional strength and con at caster level 19... this would limit the usefulness of scrolls as they would be CL 11 making the actual spell more valuable.

Yeah, I read that. The reason I made my suggestion is that that +6 exceptional strength isn't much of a transformation. It'd be a great boost for a caster that is already specced for melee, but that doesn't really make the spell broadly useful. There'd be a few builds that used it and no one else.

[Monkey_Archer]

Yeah, I read that. The reason I made my suggestion is that that +6 exceptional strength isn't much of a transformation. It'd be a great boost for a caster that is already specced for melee, but that doesn't really make the spell broadly useful. There'd be a few builds that used it and no one else.

Tensor's transformation SHOULD be more effective for casters that already spec for melee.
The purpose of this spell should be to enhance ANY caster's melee ability equally, not to give caster-spec casters a bigger boost then other multiclassed or strength based builds, just because they were worse off to begin with.

While I understand the need for the benefit of the spell to based off actually being a caster (to avoid it just being another buff for melee toons with UMD) giving large extra benfits for having either high transmutation DC, full 20 wizard levels, or max intel is nothing short of an attack on every melee-caster build in existence, and is basically equivalent to telling every melee-caster to reroll as a pure 20 transmutation archmage .

I still think tensor's should be roughly the equivalent to a cleric with Divine power + Divine favor in one spell. That is, it gives full BAB, non-stacking enhancment stat buff, and a stacking bonus to hit and damage that increases to approximately +3/+3. Any further benefits over that should be based on whether or not it still restricts casting, or increases the cost of spells as per th OP suggestion.

[Aesop]

Yeah, I read that. The reason I made my suggestion is that that +6 exceptional strength isn't much of a transformation. It'd be a great boost for a caster that is already specced for melee, but that doesn't really make the spell broadly useful. There'd be a few builds that used it and no one else.

Well at the time I was anticipating the spell to be used primarily by casters who wanted to spec for melee.

I also made the modified suggestion to have casting Stat apply to to Hit bonus instead of Strength. of course the downside there is that those that a melee spec'd would likely get less of a boost than those spec'd for max casting

[jcTharin]

Just dumping some brainstorming here.
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what we need from the spell.

1. full BAB.
2. To be the preferred choice for arcanes who want to melee instead of DP clickies.

that's all we need. anything else would just be a minor bonus.
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quick ideas for changes.

option 1: remove the crippling loss of spell casting ability.

Tenser's Transformation
spell level: 6
duration: as rage spell (could easily be any kind of duration from same as haste to one min per caster level)
a +4 enhancement bonus to strength, dexterity and constitution. this bonus improves to +6 at caster level 16 (just throwing out a number)
BAB as Fighter
proficiency with all simple and martial weapons
no loss to casting ability.
uses a normal ingredient for that level spell instead of a potion of bulls strength.

This is only something that would do the same thing as DP but as an arcane spell. and it would actually be better for an arcane to use this instead of a pile of DP clickies. the only thing you want Tenser's for is the full BAB, all else is fluff. however this spell can replace your +6 str item.


Option 2: keep the compleate loss to casting ability, and make it an extreamly huge buff that is worth the loss of DOT spells/self healing/ext.

Tenser's greater Transformation
spell level: 7 (or maybe 8 or 9)
duration: as rage spell (it needs to be short, so it cant be one min per caster level)
BAB as Fighter
proficiency with all simple and martial weapons
an enhancement bonus to strength, dexterity and constitution equal to half your caster level. to a max of +8 dexterity and constitution at level 16 and a max of +10 strength at caster level 20. (+4 str over a +6 item. a warrior of untold death and destruction this does not make)
an enhancement bonus to AC equal to half caster level (+10 at level 20)
a natural armor bonus to AC same as ranger barkskin spell
fortitude save Advancement equal to fighter (a pure wizard will get +6 to fort saves at level 20)
DR/- equal to caster level (not sure what to cap this at. maybe at level 15 maybe at level 20. it should be more than 10 though.)
resistance to all elemental damage equal to twice caster level. as resist energy (this is 40 base at level 20. sorcerer savants will change this)
temporary protection from all forms of elemental damage as Protection from Elements spell but with a max caster level of 20 instead of 10. (and maybe make it stack)
1d10 temporary hit-points per caster level
can not cast any spells or use any items that cast spells. exactly as Tenser's is now.
it can not be removed at will before the spell ends except with dispel magic
still uses a pot of bulls strength just for the hell of it.

If something like this is introduced it should not be available in any form for sale at vendors, or as a random drop from chests, or as a clickie on an item, named or random. The only way to use it is to have an arcane cast it. Period.

Like I said, a wizard/sorcerer losing the ability to cast spells is HUGE. a buff that removes that needs to be powerful enough to make the loss to spell casting worth it. but even with this huge buff a wizard/sorcerer that is made to melee will still be far below a melee class of the same level and gear. and i still think that the offensive power could be buffed more but this is what I got so far.


Option 3: reduce spell power, but don't remove it.

Tenser's Transformation
spell level: 6
duration: as rage spell (could easily be any kind of duration from same as haste to one min per caster level)
a +4 enhancement bonus to strength, dexterity and constitution. this bonus improves to +6 at caster level 16 and to +8 at caster level 20 (still just throwing out numbers, feel free to recommend different specifics.)
BAB as Fighter
proficiency with all simple and martial weapons
a +4 natural armor bonus to Armor Class
a +5 competence bonus to Fortitude saves
when this spell is active the caster can not use any metamagics and automatically fails any concentration checks to cast spells when under attack.
magic items of all kinds can still be used normally. but you still fail a concentration check if you try to use them under attack.
this spell can be dismissed at will (not sure how, i like the idea of using remove curse to do it but it could be any way really)

I like the idea of loss of metamagics being the way casting ability is reduced. A caster under the spell can't use quickened reconstruct or negative energy burst in the middle of combat and can't use maximize or empower for spell damage. but they can still run back if they need to cast a spell. and they can cast fine outside of combat. so only offensive spell power is reduced but the caster is not completely crippled.

this third option needs to be stronger then it is now. everything other than the +8 stats and the full BAB is just fluff and not worth the loss of metamagics. And I think that the complete loss of concentration is overkill, but i just wanted to throw that idea out there, loss of metamagics is enough.

**** that took a long time to write.

[MrWizard]

Suggesting this here because of the beta agreement. Now that the tech is in place, please make Tenser's Transformation work like Combat Expertise. Double spell point usage while the spell is active. This will make the spell actually have a use, as opposed to being a hindrance the way it is now.

shucks, i was hoping this was gonna be making the spell give you that +5 ac so i could get power attack

[parvo]

Yea, because DDO characters are so weak. Especially arcanes.

There's nothing wrong with the spell as is. The problem rather, is the abundance of monty haul loot making it obscolete. The objective of making every spell desirable has thrown the balance of player vs. environment off like never before. Continuing that progression is not going to help the game.

[Infant]

Yea, because DDO characters are so weak. Especially arcanes.

There's nothing wrong with the spell as is. The problem rather, is the abundance of monty haul loot making it obscolete. The objective of making every spell desirable has thrown the balance of player vs. environment off like never before. Continuing that progression is not going to help the game.

We're not talking about making very powerful builds more powerful, we are talking about making few niche builds (arcane melees) a bit more viable.

Infant

[parvo]

We're not talking about making very powerful builds more powerful, we are talking about making few niche builds (arcane melees) a bit more viable.

Infant

They are already viable. My top PD character is exactly that. After five years of PD playing tough rule sets, he is amongst a handful of characters at his level. He doesn't need a huge power boost. This is a request by players who want thier special pet build style to become uber overnight.

[jackabat]

They are already viable. My top PD character is exactly that. After five years of PD playing tough rule sets, he is amongst a handful of characters at his level. He doesn't need a huge power boost. This is a request by players who want thier special pet build style to become uber overnight.

Does your character ever use tensor's transformation, a spell ostensibly intended exactly for his type of spellcasting?

[Monkey_Archer]

They are already viable. My top PD character is exactly that. After five years of PD playing tough rule sets, he is amongst a handful of characters at his level. He doesn't need a huge power boost. This is a request by players who want thier special pet build style to become uber overnight.

Now you're talking about a niche within a niche...
I have nothing against PD, I've played PD, but it is still a niche playstyle. A strong PD build is not necessarily a strong non-PD build, and is even less likely to be a useful epic build. Even if tensor's does get a significant power boost would it even be worth using in PD, at the cost of not being able to use your buffs, selfheling, clickies, etc?

As long as casting is still restricted, tensors could give +20 damage and still not make a melee caster "uber". You'd still be doing less damage then a real melee character and would still be much less survivable.

[samthedagger]

The simplest fix I can imagine is to allow a caster to dispel any spells upon himself by double clicking the icon for the spell at the top of the screen.