Make Tenser's Transformation = Combat Expertise

[Aspenor]

That's your opinion. I decline to to get sidetracked into a debate about the value of fidelity to the source game.

So you would rather stick to the source than make a completely useless thing worthwhile? Do you blindly stick to the rules in PnP as well? Because if you do, that's bad for gameplay.

[moorewr]

So you would rather stick to the source than make a completely useless thing worthwhile? Do you blindly stick to the rules in PnP as well? Because if you do, that's bad for gameplay.

1) While I don't agree that it is useless, it would be far more useful if it was of shorter duration or could be dismissed at will. That seems like a good adjustment to the pace of DDO vis a vis PnP within the spirit of the spell.

2) I do not "blindly stick" to the rules, and you have no basis for saying that I do.

[Greydeath]

Suggesting this here because of the beta agreement. Now that the tech is in place, please make Tenser's Transformation work like Combat Expertise. Double spell point usage while the spell is active. This will make the spell actually have a use, as opposed to being a hindrance the way it is now.

/signed
Best idea in a long time - awesome!

Double sp cost

or
change stat and ac bonuses to Insight.

Either works for me.

Both - the statb bonuses really do need to stack (at least partially)

I like that idea.

Then make it so

[Aspenor]

1) While I don't agree that it is useless, it would be far more useful if it was of shorter duration or could be dismissed at will. That seems like a good adjustment to the pace of DDO vis a vis PnP within the spirit of the spell.

2) I do not "blindly stick" to the rules, and you have no basis for saying that I do.

1. Anything that locks out a spellcaster from casting their spells is useless for that spellcaster.

2. Your reluctance to deviate from the source material on something so obviously useless indicates that I do.

[Solmage]

Might I suggest this spell simply uses your casting stat as your strength bonus? (to-hit and dmg) That alone would make this spell worth using. (Although I do like the OP's idea, the spell still remains only of any real use for characters already spec'd for melee)

Also, I wouldn't make the bonuses insight because then every umd melee will run around with this scroll up, but you COULD if you really wanted to base an insight bonus on the number of caster levels you have. F.ex Insight bonus = (caster_lvl - 12)/2

[moorewr]

1. Anything that locks out a spellcaster from casting their spells is useless for that spellcaster.

2. Your reluctance to deviate from the source material on something so obviously useless indicates that I do.

Your position on the relative importance of the source material has been clear for a long time. You've no call to insult me for holding a different position. I have no interest in that sort of exchange.

[TreknaQudane]

Something I'd like seen... and would probably get flogged for...

Change Divine Power to give at most +5 BAB. and Tenser's grant up to +10 BAB, with the Tenser's bonus being typed as Morale (Some bonus akin to the Rage effect)

[Aspenor]

Your position on the relative importance of the source material has been clear for a long time. You've no call to insult me for holding a different position. I have no interest in that sort of exchange.

Then why are you engaging in it?

Have you not noticed our DM's (Turbine) position, lately?

Also, you failed to come up with any reason why it's not useless, when it most absolutely is completely and utterly worthless and useless as written in the PHB. The authors of many of the 3.5 books, including the Player's Handbook, barely even understood the power level of the things they were writing. This is why worthless spells like "Tenser's Transformation" are higher level than spells like Polymorph, while being total wastes of time, ink, and paper.

[Duuk]

I love the idea of changing it to be like CE

[Wizzly_Bear]

I dislike the sp cost. I also dislike not being able to cast. I have always wanted it to have an option to end at-will, and thus I vote for that, and against being able to cast during it (sp cost or no).

[moorewr]

Then why are you engaging in it?

Have you not noticed our DM's (Turbine) position, lately?

Also, you failed to come up with any reason why it's not useless, when it most absolutely is completely and utterly worthless and useless as written in the PHB. The authors of many of the 3.5 books, including the Player's Handbook, barely even understood the power level of the things they were writing. This is why worthless spells like "Tenser's Transformation" are higher level than spells like Polymorph, while being total wastes of time, ink, and paper.

You say the spell is worthless in PnP. Beyond noting your opinion no responsibility lies with me for your opinions about how 3rd edition D&D should be different. We all have long lists of things we'd change if we owned the game.

I'd nerf TWF off-hand attacks to oblivion and makes shield ten times more important, because shields in D&D are all but worthless and TWF is de rigeur. As anyone who has spent five minutes on an SCA battlefied can tell you, that doesn't match reality well at all. So what? This game isn't moorewr On-Line, it's Dungeons and Dragons On-Line.

What's your argument there? Since I say shields are worthless in PnP, should we rewrite DDO shield rules to no longer resemble D&D even in spirit? That could be a fascinating launching point for a new game, but not one that should be called DDO.

[shagath]

With penalties like Tenser has, it should a bit more powerful than divine power(at least when divine power is used as clickie). Just thinking out loud.

How about no casting under the effects of tenser but sp cost for ending it at will?

[Lleren]

Honestly I like the idea. I think it would open up more possibilies for interesting build ideas.

+1 from me

And I would have no problem with Changing shields to be more usefull then they are in base ADnD rules. We already have after all. I want a fun game based upon ADnD, not one slaved to any editions rules system.

[Roziel_Longblade]

Also, I wouldn't make the bonuses insight because then every umd melee will run around with this scroll up, but you COULD if you really wanted to base an insight bonus on the number of caster levels you have. F.ex Insight bonus = (caster_lvl - 12)/2

Yeah. I admit that I did forget about the whole UMD thing. However it is a short duration 6th lvl spell. That means a lot of item switching to get the UMD do use it, and then no other spells, clickies or scrolls for a min while it is up. It sounds balanced for a 6th lvl spell. With all the enhancement items that are so easy to find the spell really should have something more to justify its lvl and penalties. Being able to cast somewhat would make me use the spell, but I will still think it could be better.

... also it would be bad if EC and Tensers quadrupled spell cost though. That penalty definitely should not stack.

[Aspenor]

What's your argument there? Since I say shields are worthless in PnP, should we rewrite DDO shield rules to no longer resemble D&D even in spirit? That could be a fascinating launching point for a new game, but not one that should be called DDO.

I already made some suggestions in the suggestion forums to make fighting with a shield worthwhile. Changes like that would also be good for the game, despite being different from the D&D ruleset. TWF and THF already work different than in PnP, anyway.

[Borror0]

Asp, you're never going to be able to persuade moorewr that deviating from PnP would be more fun than not. Never. You're wasting your time.

[Aspenor]

Asp, you're never going to be able to persuade moorewr that deviating from PnP would be more fun than not. Never. You're wasting your time.

So I was correct about "blindly following the rules," at least in one way.

[moorewr]

Asp, you're never going to be able to persuade moorewr that deviating from PnP would be more fun than not. Never. You're wasting your time.

This game is full of deviations I approve of - physics checks instead of touch AC, spell points, heroic durability... You cannot carbon copy a table top game to an MMO. On this we are all agreed. There's a difference between "conversion" like that and simple reversal of the intent of something like Tenser's.

Anyway, enough repitition of this point. Let's move on to game balance. Do YOU think it is balanced for a caster to be able to, at will, become a full BAB melee* proficient with all martial weapons while still able to cast spells? Or would the game end up as melee WF sorcs on-line?

*obviously, all these DP clickies w/o a caster level have the same game balance problem..

[moorewr]

So I was correct about "blindly following the rules," at least in one way.

What's that, Aspenor? All I see in your message is "Please add me to your ignore list!"

[Gol]

Suggesting this here because of the beta agreement. Now that the tech is in place, please make Tenser's Transformation work like Combat Expertise. Double spell point usage while the spell is active. This will make the spell actually have a use, as opposed to being a hindrance the way it is now.

Eh? What tech is this?