Cleric's Combat Tips for Newcomers.

[DToNE]

Greetings, I'm writing this guide in order to help newcomer combat type Clerics balance healing and combat efficiently.

First, we have to understand the overall public view of Battle Clerics. Battle Clerics are usually shunned, whenever there's a bad cleric in the group they either fall into the "bad cleric" or "battle cleric" category, so the public view of battle cleric and bad cleric isn't very far apart. Of course, it's been argued back and forth that battle clerics are acceptable if they heal properly, but that does not stop others from thinking poorly of the Cleric.

Philosophy
It is important to uphold certain philosophies when trying to multitask between healing and fighting. I don't expect everyone to use or remember them all, but if it helps you that would be great.

1) The party's livelihood determines success: A party that is alive will always have a higher chance of completing a mission than if only certain individuals are alive. As much as a cleric can solo early on, they'll still be much slower in completing objectives than a fully functional party.

2) Full health is great, but enough health is even better: It's not necessary to heal anyone to full, as long as they have enough HP to last long enough for you to heal them again if they need it, it's enough HP. Not only is overhealing a waste of valuable resources, but overall detrimental to what you can do as an individual. The less wasteful you are, the more you can do.

3) The party is wonderful, but you are more important: Chances are, if the only healer dies, the rest of the party will quickly follow after. As great as it is heal that tank in a pinch, if you don't survive there is very little chance of actually recovering.

4) Healing Damage is great, Preventing Damage is even better: A cleric is usually responsible for healing damage taken by party, however the cleric should always figure out methods of preventing as much damage taken as possible. One example is to run up to the opposing enemy group's arcane caster and incapacitate them. It's generally agreed that the enemy arcane caster hurts the most, thus if you can trip/paralyze/stun/sap/etc them, it'll save you enough SP for one healing spell.

5) Mistakes should be forgiven, liabilities should not: Mistakes are common, it happens all the time. In many cases, mistakes result in deaths or major harm. There should never be hesitation to help patch up mistakes. However, there are times when it's not much of a mistake as it is a liability; examples of a liability is a rogue that has died multiple times by using the same tactic of charging into the group of enemy ogres. Remember, you're not there to babysit, you're there to succeed; liabilities hinder your party's chances of succeeding.

6) Those that stand with me are my brothers: The party should ALWAYS be around the Cleric and the Cleric should always follow the larger chunk of the group unless needed otherwise. As important as it is to heal that stray outside the majority of the group, the majority of the group always comes first. Those who cannot understand the importance of teamwork should not receive the benefits of teamwork.

7) Firing the bow is great, but if you can keep the arrow while at it is even better: Instant kills, paralyzing, tripping; you can incapacitate your enemies a great number of ways as a cleric, but if you can do so without consuming SP that's even better. Instead of using that valuable slay living/destruction spell, if you can vorpal/disrupt them instead that'd save SP for other uses. Trip/Improved trip can be used constantly and works frequently against what usually needs to be tripped the most, the enemy arcane caster. If you have a paralyzing weapon at mid-level ranges, you can save a whole lot of SP by preventing damage taken.



I'm sure this doesn't cover all the points, but this is all I can think of at the moment. I might add more as they come to mind, but these are the philosophies that helped me rack up kills, keep party alive, and got things done. Enjoy and I hope I can hear some constructive feedback.

[mogant]

EXCELLENT POST and very helpful
Its a shame that some other players dont understand these tactics.
Was in a quest . . .redwillow in fact and one of the players went on and on about me not healing them up to max . . . i try and keep all folk over 60% but front runners as close to max as possible.
In the end i left the party as was peeing me off . . .spoke to other in the party and they were all well happy and they actualy asked this other fool to leave.

Need to conserve sp for the right folk at the right time BUT also think ahead on what may be needed.

I also like to go in and battle a bit when things get a little hairy.

anyhow thanks for the post . . great advice

Zigmunt Deathdealer

[joaofalcao]

I would like to ADD a line or so to 2 TIP.

There are times when full health is important. When the opponent hits high. If someone is holding the agro, he is taking more damage and thus is more susceptible to harms and death. An unexpected spell or critical may mean the entire party is dying in seconds.

A simple line "with some exceptions could do"

[Azuarc]

I think that would fall under the "enough health is even better" -- in this case, "enough" being at least 100%.

[Kralgnax]

Nice post, good items. My short version of some critical points you've made, in (approximate)priority:

1) Every cleric above level 10 should, if at all possible, have a paralyzer.
2) Trip is, in fact, very handy - especially against casters & archers.
3) Use your spells & adjust to what you're fighting. (Greater) command is insanely good against giants, ogres, etc. - but not versus anything with decent will saves (most enemy casters) - OTOH, a lot of those guys are suckers for soundburst & trip.
4) Try not to group with people who suck. This is especuially good if you can manage to not suck
5) Insta-kill weapons (Vorpal, disruption, banishing, smiting) can be vey cool - but know their limitations. If you're not doing much damage and/or have a crummy crit prfile (where applicable) , paralyzers, (improved) cursepewing, (improved) destruction etc. weapons may actually be a better choice

[gwlech]

Healing a 150 hp wizard in the shroud with a 300 point Heal (You're most efficient healing spell) means he is wasting half of your spell points. Best to just let him and die ride along in your backpack so you can put those spell points to use killing things.

[voodoogroves]

I would also add the following more practical advice:

Survive the Dark Ages: Persist through until level 11. The levels before that are dark time where you have few multi-healing options and very SP-costly single-target heals. You also lack group buffs, so if you're trying to buff folks you'll expend a large chunk of your SP. Once you get 5th and especially 6th level spells, life gets better. It also bears mentioning that this is around the same point where heavy fortification finally becomes common / nearly universal on your party members. Healing prior to that can be painful, as a crit (or series of them) can decimate a party member (or members) quickly which you can't heal quickly enough and when you do, it seriously drains your SP. Endure this time.

[mogant]

I do be level 8 at moment and do enjoy both scrapping and healing . . .fraid the undead bits and pieces are falling by the wayside.

Anyhow just wanted to say again . . .love all this advice to promote the clerical cause.

I think the bottom line is enjoy what you do (i do). Decide what type of cleric you wanna be but above all make sure your party is safe. If there are any fools you hook up with that run around like headless chickens and blame you then simply drop them.

Have fun . .methinks sometimes people take this all a little too seriously.

So those are my words of wisdom. Talking of wisdom i have seriously screwed up with not upping my wisdom whilst leveling BUT who cares I love my wee cleric.

toodle for the mo

Zigmunt Deathdealer

[Hedgby]

#6 is my problem. About a good 2/3rds of the groups I've gotten have this tendency to RUUUUUN as fast as they can through a dungeon, slaughtering everything in their path, while leaving me, the guy in full plate and shield with a pot belly and a penchant for too much rich food, huffing and puffing along at the end of their wake. Often, by the time I catch up to them, they're all dead and I usually die to the MObs that killed them. I get the fact that they all know the dungeon like the back of their hands, but when I let them know that I do not, I still get no consideration. Bah, I need to find some seven-league boots. . .

[JollySwagMan]

#6 is my problem. About a good 2/3rds of the groups I've gotten have this tendency to RUUUUUN as fast as they can through a dungeon, slaughtering everything in their path, while leaving me, the guy in full plate and shield with a pot belly and a penchant for too much rich food, huffing and puffing along at the end of their wake. Often, by the time I catch up to them, they're all dead and I usually die to the MObs that killed them. I get the fact that they all know the dungeon like the back of their hands, but when I let them know that I do not, I still get no consideration. Bah, I need to find some seven-league boots. . .

Ahhh - there are several ways to help deal with this.

0. Use items that increase your running speed - you can run the 'Sacrifices' quest back on Korthos several times for sets of the 'Anger's Step' boots. 3 sets of these means 6 minutes of boosted run speed per rest. Even if you walk through every quest, these items are very handy to have.

1. Have you tried creating groups with a note saying "New Player, Guide requested"? You can make the group available from your level to 20 to attract Vets, provided that you do not mind an XP penalty.

2. You can also try joining a guild/static group that plays at a slower pace.

3. Google the quest. Look it up on youtube. When researching a quest try and use multiple points of reference.

4. Be prepared for anything, and make sure that you have enough space in your backpack to carry unprepared zergers soulstones.

Have you read the Path to Enlightenment? It's a very handy guide to making your experience as a Cleric easier and fun.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=202343

[Hedgby]

Thanks Jolly. The link was great And the suggestions!

[Talon_Moonshadow]

slightly off-topic observation about full health bars.

it amazes me how people will do whatever they can for an additional 20 HP, yet run off to the next battle at half HP.

I guess the real value of having all those HP is to not have to stop zerging to heal up as often.

I've noticed that my squishy chars who bring my own healing and make sure I'm at full HP between fights, tend to last longer than many others who I assume are more sturdily built....but yet seem to take no interest in healing back up to full before getting beat on again.

Despite that, your advoce on how much a cleric needs to heal is god advice IMO.

[Daggaz]

Healing a 150 hp wizard in the shroud with a 300 point Heal (You're most efficient healing spell) means he is wasting half of your spell points. Best to just let him and die ride along in your backpack so you can put those spell points to use killing things.

Lol what??

a) A shroud worthy wizard has waaay more than 150 hp.
b) A shroud worthy cleric has a minimum 400+ point heal.
c) Letting the wizard die because heal will overheal him and that "wastes" sp is about the stupidist thing I have ever read on these forums.
d) You are generally nowhere near the wizard for the vast majority of the shroud anyways.
e) A shroud worthy wizard can and does self heal.
f) You have never been to the shroud, have you?
g) You dont even have a capped cleric, do you?


At first I thought you were being ironic and ripping the OP, but then the OP never says anything remotely like that.. So I have to assume you mean this?? If you are ripping the OP, well conserving SP by not overhealing IS a solid cleric tactic, but nowhere does he say you should let wizards die because of it. Your response is argumentia absurdia and gets the FAIL stamp.

[Nonaness]

As someone who knows Clerics and other "Leader," note the quotes, roles in these games, may I say that you did a wonderful job explaining these topics.

Do I follow them all? No, not always. I still sometimes lack buffs and preventing damage, but each person plays the Cleric class differently. Does that mean it always works, no matter what way you play it? No, of course not. But it should be noted that, while preventing damage is wonderful, sometimes the Cleric in question is not comfortable doing so. Don't get me wrong, I keep Resist and Protection from Elements on me at all times, and I've been getting in the habit of using Bless more often, but I tend to not be a buffer. Each Cleric is different in their tactics, and while some (thinking that it's not their job to look at the party's health bars, and so on) are less efficient and...well, more crappy for lack of better words, Buffs are not the be-all/end-all. They help, but they aren't always better. Of course, this is just my opinion as a non-buffing Cleric, so I may have ten Buffer's attack me afterward and tell me how wrong I am.

Perhaps it should also be mentioned that Damage is not always important for Clerics. yes, it's nice to see that Kill Ratio go up on the XP Screen, but...in all reality, it's better to (as #7 claims) stop the enemy from harming your party than it is to kill them, necessarily. Yes, it is wonderful to get some kills in now and then, and it is always good to have a good, strong offence for backup (if you're the last one alive, for example, you won't be dead in a few seconds if you have good equiptment and a few offensive spells, like Searing Light, prepared). You are there, as a Cleric, mostly expected to heal. Does that mean you cannot deal damage? Of course not, but your party members may not realise it and expect you to solely heal, especially if you are in a rather bad P.U.G.

Speaking of that, let me comment on #6. I will admit, there are idiots that run out and charge, leaving the cleric half-way across the map, chasing after them as fast as they can only to get there two seconds too late and having those same people who charged blindly blaming you, the healer, for not healing them, and thus their ultimate death. Trust me, I've gone on long, difficult dungeons with entire parties filled with these types of players, and they are the most difficult for me to "remember to heal." However, Diplomacy (not the in-game skill, but real-life skill) must be used to try to figure out how to make the party work together. Treat them as your brothers, as #6 says, but that doesn't mean you have to like them. Brothers are meant to fight, after all, and as the older, more wise (or, at least I'd hope so, Mr. Based-on-Wisdom) of the family, you should be able to attempt to sort out tiffs and try to get everyone to work together. Besides, if the Cleric is unhappy, no one's happy...if you really want to give idiots their just desserts. However, remember that you still are a team, and you should try and work together (even if the others are a bunch of zerging loons) before resorting to the "I'm not healing you if you keep on rushing those Orges, Mr. Rogue." He is what DToNE reffered to as a "liability," and if the party will do better with him not healed...let him go unhealed.

I do agree with Jolly's post, with the advice on how to deal with Zerg-ers, and that should be followed. I have used Anger's Step on my Fighter for a while, and I have noticed a good change in his pace. Just remember, there is a benefit to finishing up the quest, even if some of the members aren't too happy that they, the "liability Zerg-ers," were left unhealed when they charged into certain death.

...I kinda went overboard here, didn't I? Sorry, this is my first post ever on these forums, and I guess my wordy-ness continues even here.

Well, in short...Good job. The only things I would add are the bit about "Damage not massively important, but a good back-up offense is always a nice fall-back plan" and a bit more detail on "How to deal with Zergers and Other Liabilities." Otherwise...Perfect!

[Daliyn]

I would also add the following more practical advice:

Survive the Dark Ages: Persist through until level 11. The levels before that are dark time where you have few multi-healing options and very SP-costly single-target heals.

In fact, I really like these levels, just because it's so hard to be efficient as a healer. Never again you have opportunity to learn that effective to conserve your few SP, to find the right balance between offensive, cc and healing and to let stupid die. And never again you have the opportunity to teach non-healing newbies what a healer can and cannot and what self-sufficiency means.

I always found running Waterworks or Proof is the Poison elite with a group of newbies much more difficult than running higher lvl quests with mass heal and potent offensive spells, but also often much more fun and rewarding in the end. And I don't mean this lootwise.

[Zhiel]

How much AC should a battle cleric be striving for (I am currently level 13)? When should we work Toughness into our build?

Even though I have a heavy fort. belt, my AC is in the high 20s and I seem to take a lot of damage while in melee (especially vs gnolls in the sands, gianthold and vs duegar). Currently, I am saving my platinum to purchase a paralyzing weapon or two. Though I do keep a cursespewing, smiting, enfeebling, holy/holy burst and other assorted weapons on me at all times. Normally in the runs I am in, we have a dedicated healer. That frees me up to spend my SP on buffing the party, emergency heals and some offensive spells (usually blade barrier and cometfall).

Normally, I carry wands on me to do some OOC healing as well. The wands can get expensive pretty quick, but our core group is always chipping in to get healing items for both clerics. As for the zergers...we warn you once, and then we don't heal you. If you die, your stone stays where it dropped. Maybe our core group will push harder and faster through dungeons on our next toons. Right now, these are our first, and they only have the gear that dropped or we could afford off the AH. Basically, we are all still learning and doing the best we can.