3/4 BAB Classes

[TiranBlade]

If it were possible to get 4 strikes out of one hit, wouldn't Eladrin have mentioned it here? Also, Daehawk appears to agree with my understanding.

Yes but your talking about a question asked directly about the possiblity of 3 Smites, Daehawk didn't ask anything about the possibility of a fourth so Eladrin didn't answer that question.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

why would he mention it if it isnt asked for?
also tiranblade brought a quote which makes it clear that doublestrike is increasing offhand attacks

That quote lists 3 things that were done. In no way does it say that TWF explicitly benefits from doublestrike more than THF or S&B.

[TiranBlade]

Edit:
Thanks for the massive amount of feedback all.

We're currently thinking of adjusting the numbers to:

    Doublestrike    Bonus    Main hand    Off hand
No feats    0    20%    100%        20%
TWF        0    +20%    100%        40%
ITWF        0    +20%    100%        60%
GTWF        0    +20%    100%        80%
Tempest I    0    +10%    100%        90%
Tempest II    0    +10%    100%        100% 
Tempest III    +5%*    0    105%        100%
Wind IV        +10%    0    110%        80%
Zeal        +10%    0    110%        80%
Alacrity    +10%    0    110%        80%

* Only when wielding two weapons.

This set switches Wind Stance and Tempest III to doublestrike bonuses, increases the benefits of the TWF feat chain, and adds an additional feat for high BAB characters.

All of the bottom rows assume that the person has GTWF.

Edit 2:
Updated information in the main post to reflect the most recent changes.

In bold states the intention of using Double Strike to benifit TWF.

why would he mention it if it isnt asked for?
also tiranblade brought a quote which makes it clear that doublestrike is increasing offhand attacks

Yes, I did, and I bring the question that if Double Strike Didn't Benifit TWF, then Why would they put it on the Tempest III and Monk Air Stance IV?

[Stanley_Nicholas]

Yes, I did, and I bring the question that if Double Strike Didn't Benifit TWF, then Why would they put it on the Tempest and Monk Air Stance IV?

Of course doublestrike benefits TWF. Just like it benefits THF and S&B. They put it on air stance and tempest 3 to help make up for the removal of attack speed bonuses.

Why do you choose to only bold the first 2 parts of that sentence, and not the third part? You are trying to imply that the first part is explicitly granting the second part, which is not stated anywhere. If that were true, then it would follow that the third part should also have been explicitly granted by the first part. Although it is being removed, is it actually your belief that Eladrin intended for doublestrike to also grant STWF automatically??

[TiranBlade]

Of course doublestrike benefits TWF. Just like it benefits THF and S&B. They put it on air stance and tempest 3 to help make up for the removal of attack speed bonuses.

Why do you choose to only bold the first 2 parts of that sentence, and not the third part? You are trying to imply that the first part is explicitly granting the second part, which is not stated anywhere. If that were true, then it would follow that the third part should also have been explicitly granted by the first part. Although it is being removed, is it your belief that Eladrin intended for doublestrike to also grant STWF automatically??

That last part of the sentance was pertaning to the original implementation of STWF as part of the chart, and the edit below that sentance was posted after he decided to remove STWF and didn't edit the sentance above to reflect.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

That last part of the sentance was pertaning to the original implementation of STWF as part of the chart, and the edit below that sentance was posted after he decided to remove STWF and didn't edit the sentance above to reflect.

I haven't seen the vid you referred to before editing it out of your post. Perhaps you can point me to it?

[TiranBlade]

Multiple ToD's

Can we please get a Eldarin or Dev to answer this so the argueing doesn't continue please?

[Stanley_Nicholas]

Multiple ToD's

Can we please get a Eldarin or Dev to answer this so the argueing doesn't continue please?

Well I'm not sure that video really proves anything, but I'm open to the possibility that I'm wrong. Though if I am, I'm not sure it's WAI. Some dev confirmation would be nice on this.

I think I'll jump on llama and see if I can tell myself.

[TiranBlade]

Combat

• Attacks performed while holding a shield and no weapon will now shield bash instead of punching.
• When targeting an object with the reticle over it (the red reticle appears), you can perform an untargeted attack. This allows players to fire at specific parts of a target. Example: Using this targeting method you could shoot at the head of a kobold whose body is hidden behind a crate. Head shot!
• Interrupted actions will now clear their cooldowns. For example: Drinking a potion and then moving the character before the potion is used resets the cooldown to 0.
• The following changes have been made to combat for better game performance and balance:
  
  • Attacks with two handed weapons performed while moving no longer perform Glancing Blows.
  • Two Weapon Fighting attacks (weapons or unarmed) have been optimized for performance and balance. Off hand attacks now have a chance to proc (trigger) off of any main hand attacks based on the number of two weapon fighting feats (and related enhancements) you possess. (Instead of being predetermined on certain attacks in the attack chain.)
    
    • A character with no two weapon fighting feats has a base 20% chance to proc off-hand attacks.
    • The Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, and Greater Two Weapon Fighting feats now grant a +20% bonus to proc off-hand attacks.
    • Ranger Tempest I and II now grant a +10%/+20% bonus to the chance to proc off-hand attacks when dual wielding instead of a bonus to attack speed.
    • Monk Air Stance and Ranger Tempest I and II now stack with each other for these purposes.
  • A new mechanic has been introduced called "double strike". A character with a double strike chance has a chance to make an additional attack roll with their main hand weapon any time they make a main hand attack, on the target of the first attack. Many speed bonuses have been changed to double strike effects.
    
    • The Fighter Alacrity capstone, and the Paladin spell Zeal has been changed to a +10% bonuses to double strike.
    • Monk Air stances now grant a +2.5%/+5%/+7.5%/+10% insight bonus to double strike chance instead of an insight bonus to attack speed. (The enhancement bonus to attack speed remains.)
    • Ranger Tempest III now grants a +5% double strike chance while wielding two weapons. (The Shield Bonus and to-hit penalty reductions that Tempest grants when wielding two weapons, or the enhancement bonuses to speed from Wind Stance remain unchanged.)

Bolded are the Release Note Statements of the functions of Double Strike and Two Weapon fighting and based on it, it states Double Strike is an Additional Main Hand Attack and Off Hand Procs on ANY Main Hand Attack.

[Emili]

Bolded are the Release Note Statements of the functions of Double Strike and Two Weapon fighting and based on it, it states Double Strike is an Additional Main Hand Attack and Off Hand Procs on ANY Main Hand Attack.

That they do... and the odds are 10% under full monk windstance, fighter capstone or zeal and 5% under tempest III ... and it must be on the first attack in the sequence... no others. If you have a pally per-say shall you time to sequence and click your smite precisely you have a 10% chance of doing so with smite evil. The best thing I can tell you is to come play on lammania and feel it for yourself...

[Chai]

That they do... and the odds are 10% under full monk windstance, fighter capstone or zeal and 5% under tempest III ... and it must be on the first attack in the sequence... no others. If you have a pally per-say shall you time to sequence and click your smite precisely you have a 10% chance of doing so with smite evil. The best thing I can tell you is to come play on lammania and feel it for yourself...

Have been on lamania for a few days now. I havent been able to get any raids going. Id like to see the impact of the changes on boss mobs that take a while to kill as well as trash mobs that do not (which I have already seen).

[Stanley_Nicholas]

Bolded are the Release Note Statements of the functions of Double Strike and Two Weapon fighting and based on it, it states Double Strike is an Additional Main Hand Attack and Off Hand Procs on ANY Main Hand Attack.

It's really hard to tell in-game. The combat log gives no indication if a given hit is a main hand attack, off hand, "additional", whatever. Visually it does sometimes appear like more than 3 sets of numbers are being strung together, but a) it happens a LOT more often than 5% of the time like you would expect for a tempest 3 ranger, and b) it occasionally looks like 5 or more sets of numbers are being strung together.

These are probably artifacts of attack timings not occurring in perfectly equal time increments, but rather being tied to certain points in the attack animations of the avatar. I'm not sure how to figure out definitively without a serious statistical analysis that I don't have time for. Hopefully we will get some clarity from Eladrin at some point. Your interpretation might be right, but I definitely have my doubts.

[Chai]

Equip 2 weapons that do different types of damage. You can see slash and blunt in the combat log for instance. Note which one is in the main hand and which is in the offhand. Fight a few mobs, check the log. About 10 occurrences of that should give you an accurate picture of how much your main hand is hitting -vs- how much the offhand is hitting.

This of course is the tangible results analysis method that I favor over DPS spreadsheets and vacuum calcs.

You could use something that has alot of hp, doesnt move, and is static, like a portal, to do something like this as well.