Twitch THF is dead - TWF now reigns supreme

[Spiffyspiffy]

Shroud items can be bought. Easily.
I, and just about every1 else who has been playing for a more then a few months can get a GS weapon in 1 day worth of shroud running (for shards)

You cannot on Cannith. Even if you've been playing since day 1. I assume Orien is worse.

You might be able to buy enough scales all at once from the AH, but the platinum required would require a GM client able to /makegold.

[Monkey_Archer]

I've been playing since November and with the one million plat I have sitting around, I can afford 2 large devil scales.

You cannot on Cannith. Even if you've been playing since day 1. I assume Orien is worse.

You might be able to buy enough scales all at once from the AH, but the platinum required would require a GM client able to /makegold.

I wasn't even referring to tier 3 GS...
I was talking about the eSOS (a weapon that cannot break DR) in which case, simple dual positive khopeshes are nearly as effective.

[Spiffyspiffy]

I wasn't even referring to tier 3 GS...
I was talking about the eSOS (a weapon that cannot break DR) in which case, simple dual positive khopeshes are nearly as effective.

eSoS breaks DR just fine, in the right hands. But if you want such a DR free comparison you want lightning strike, not pospos. 5 large scales. Each weapon.

[maddmatt70]

Twitch thf is not dead because for one thing if you twitch you save 3 feats because the thf feats are not worthwhile. You can spend those three feats on anything such as the barbarian past life (do not know if they will fix this by next mod likely not) and rogue past life (which is fixed according to notes), etc. I am less interested in numbers and more interested in actual data especially when this hits live i.e. comparison from current live version to mod 5 live version with and without twicth. Then compare thf to both twf life versions.

[Monkey_Archer]

Twitch thf is not dead because for one thing if you twitch you save 3 feats because the thf feats are not worthwhile. You can spend those three feats on anything such as the barbarian past life (do not know if they will fix this by next mod likely not) and rogue past life (which is fixed according to notes), etc. I am less interested in numbers and more interested in actual data especially when this hits live i.e. comparison from current live version to mod 5 live version with and without twicth. Then compare thf to both twf life versions.

Perfect twitch is not possible all the time. No serious DPS character will be dropping those feats to loose 10 dps...

[gfunk]

It wouldn't hurt to point out that the difference between TWF and THF is not as big if you remove the bard songs (which will be the case for most non-end game raiding). Some of the gear benfits TWF a bit more too, and not everyone will have that. THF will be much more similar DPS in epic quests for example (I almost never have a bard in those). A THF barb still puts out good consistant dps without needing to rely as much on buffs or equipment.

That said, I can't say I am thrlled about the change.

[Monkey_Archer]

It wouldn't hurt to point out that the difference between TWF and THF is not as big if you remove the bard songs (which will be the case for most non-end game raiding). Some of the gear benfits TWF a bit more too, and not everyone will have that. THF will be much more similar DPS in epic quests for example (I almost never have a bard in those). A THF barb still puts out good consistant dps without needing to rely as much on buffs or equipment.

That said, I can't say I am thrlled about the change.

I would agree, except for the fact that THF looses so much dps while moving now. Except for autocrit situations (which favors TWF), much of epic is either chasing something being kited, or backpedaling to avoid getting killed.
Standing still to get glancing blows just doesnt happen that often (especially on epic), nor is it fun...

[Aesop]

I would agree, except for the fact that THF looses so much dps while moving now. Except for autocrit situations (which favors TWF), much of epic is either chasing something being kited, or backpedaling to avoid getting killed.
Standing still to get glancing blows just doesnt happen that often (especially on epic), nor is it fun...

How many (percentage) Glancing Blows while moving would it take to get up to the same dps as stading still?

Maybe if we can get them to do a Percentage Proc to that level while moving then fun can be maintained simultaneously with balance I know I know ... not bloody likely

Aesop

[joneb1999]

Why do I hear so many say glancing blows cost less feats. I spent 3 feats in 2 handed fighting, improved and greater!! So these feats are worthless now or were they worthless all along? Im confused on that but Im pished off at 3 wasted feats as I like to move when Im fighting with my barb since my dex is worthless. I wouldnt mind so much if changing feats at 20th lvl was not so demanding (prohibitve) in monetary cost and syberis shards or if when a nerf is made that affects a toon there is free or very cheap lesser reincarnation offered to the player. This is one more huge incentive for me to move to GW2 as soon as it hits shelves! Cant come quick enough.

[Boromirs]

It feels like TWF got it slightly worse. And I emphasize "feels like"...its just a LOT slower. I wish there was a way to speed up the combat even slightly, fast combat is what I like (and figure what most kids my age like). But whatever.

[itatchi83]

I would just like to ask the question, How do these numbers roll out when comparing 100% fort mobs?

Also, is Two handed fighting feats worthless now or not?
I would like to know, because I could fill those with some actual useful feats now.

[joneb1999]

I would just like to ask the question, How do these numbers roll out when comparing 100% fort mobs?

Also, is Two handed fighting feats worthless now or not?
I would like to know, because I could fill those with some actual useful feats now.

Hope your toon isnt 20th level or you have plenty resources for Fred! I know I cant afford it!

[ConnorMacLoad]

I may have been reading the thread wrong, but were people in this thread suggesting that some changes to THF make it so that they can be almost as effective without having to take any of the related feats? (THF, ITHF, GTWF)

[Visty]

I may have been reading the thread wrong, but were people in this thread suggesting that some changes to THF make it so that they can be almost as effective without having to take and of the related feats? (THF, ITHF, GTWF)

the feat line only gives more and better glancing blows
if you twitch you dont get any glancing blows at all
if you stand still you get them according to the feats you have

so you either twitch and save 3 feats but do abit less dps then autoattacking, or
you stand still, spend 3 feats and do abit more dps then twitch

[Monkey_Archer]

How many (percentage) Glancing Blows while moving would it take to get up to the same dps as stading still?

Maybe if we can get them to do a Percentage Proc to that level while moving then fun can be maintained simultaneously with balance I know I know ... not bloody likely

Aesop

Well, a bit of rough math..
THF moving attacks about 5% faster then standing still (110 vs 105 swings per minute)
Glancing blows provide about 15% of dps
So adding 5% to the 85% of dps then base attack provides, subtract 5% from 15% gained from glancing blows...

So about 50% glancing blows while moving would be equal to 75% glancing blows staning still... (exactly what we have now prenerf)

[joneb1999]

Well, a bit of rough math..
THF moving attacks about 5% faster then standing still (110 vs 105 swings per minute)
Glancing blows provide about 15% of dps
So adding 5% to the 85% of dps then base attack provides, subtract 5% from 15% gained from glancing blows...

So about 50% glancing blows while moving would be equal to 75% glancing blows staning still... (exactly what we have now prenerf)

Im not very good at maths but are you saying that with whatever changes have been made there is no overall nerf to 2hf and its still on par with 2wf so what everyone else is saying is wrong?

Also can someone tell me how taking 3 feats for 2 handed fighting is any less than taking 3 feats for 2wf? If there is any difference it is in the fact that there are 2 weapons involved with 2wf. Why nerf the only reason of having those 2hf feats? Why cant the devs just see sense in allowing either improved or greater 2hf bestow moving glancing blows so it requires all those feat resources to get it and not any Tom, **** or Harry with a 2h weapon can use it.

[R0cksteady]

Im not very good at maths but are you saying that with whatever changes have been made there is no overall nerf to 2hf and its still on par with 2wf so what everyone else is saying is wrong?

Also can someone tell me how taking 3 feats for 2 handed fighting is any less than taking 3 feats for 2wf? If there is any difference it is in the fact that there are 2 weapons involved with 2wf. Why nerf the only reason of having those 2hf feats? Why cant the devs just see sense in allowing either improved or greater 2hf bestow moving glancing blows so it requires all those feat resources to get it and not any Tom, **** or Harry with a 2h weapon can use it.

Yeah there are other differences. Like having to put a bunch of points into dex, TWF has a lower to-hit and exotic weapon proficiency.

[Aesop]

Well, a bit of rough math..
THF moving attacks about 5% faster then standing still (110 vs 105 swings per minute)
Glancing blows provide about 15% of dps
So adding 5% to the 85% of dps then base attack provides, subtract 5% from 15% gained from glancing blows...

So about 50% glancing blows while moving would be equal to 75% glancing blows staning still... (exactly what we have now prenerf)

well if it is 105:110... why do you say 105:129 in the op.

I was thinking somewhere around 25% would enough to really get the job done to keep twitch at least on par with standing.

the other thing is that these calculations are of course against a single opponent.

so how about against 2 opponents or 3 or 4.

I mean I know only Raids count and raid bosses, but being more useful against groups isn't a terrible thing over all.

Aesop

[R0cksteady]

Why would only raids and raid bosses count?

[joneb1999]

Yeah there are other differences. Like having to put a bunch of points into dex, TWF has a lower to-hit and exotic weapon proficiency.

The actual lower to hit hasnt been noted as enough to be a big deal otherwise the misses would affect dps. Dex allows for a half decent ac bonus with mithral armor and tends to help very much with high ac builds. Exotic weapon proficiency is nothing more to do with 2wf than it is if using one weapon. The counter argument for a 2 handed weapon such as a great axe is it is a single wielded weapon that doesnt allow for a shield but unlike 2 weapons is much more limited in dps and chance to crit and no chance for as much crit effects. [EDIT]Actually with the update to bastard swords and dwarven axes the greater weapons dont look worthwhile anymore.