Twitch THF is dead - TWF now reigns supreme

[Monkey_Archer]

Honestly for anyone that is going to grind for an epic Sos could easily grind for shroud weapons.

Grinding shroud is not hard, and doing so does not mean you deserve higher dps.

Honestly I don't really care if Twf has better potential then Thf it's the fact an epic weapon is no better then an easily farmed shroud weapon.

This.

Not just the eSOS, but any epic weapon in general.

Shroud items can be bought. Easily.
I, and just about every1 else who has been playing for a more then a few months can get a GS weapon in 1 day worth of shroud running (for shards)

100+ Vons an counting and i still dont have an eSOS...

[Emili]

Honestly for anyone that is going to grind for an epic Sos could easily grind for shroud weapons.

Grinding shroud is not hard, and doing so does not mean you deserve higher dps.

Honestly I don't really care if Twf has better potential then Thf it's the fact an epic weapon is no better then an easily farmed shroud weapon.

Is also why I did not agree with the eSoS nerf... but then again what people asked for... If you took the epic chaos blades and pit them against a chaotic boss they're not so great against a devil ... well agaiin put them in a pally's hands. Fact is epic weapons are not quite as fancy as two shroud recipies - min II and lightning II. I know people managed eSoS early just over 20 runs ... as for me I have plenty more runs than that on one girl than that. She a couple epic shards but no scrolls really to say, is more luck involved in epic running then in shroud ... shroud been out forever the market flooded and could not tell you how many runs in collection among all the toons. They are two entirely different loot systems.

[R0cksteady]

This.

Not just the eSOS, but any epic weapon in general.

Shroud items can be bought. Easily.
I, and just about every1 else who has been playing for a more then a few months can get a GS weapon in 1 day worth of shroud running (for shards)

100+ Vons an counting and i still dont have an eSOS...

I've been playing since November and with the one million plat I have sitting around, I can afford 2 large devil scales.

[Merlocke]

Glad my twf toons didnt do all that greensteel set grinding for nothing.

Attackspeed changes still suck though, for both types.

[Cetus]

Too bad I'll never see the numbers that I was working so hard to see one day...caught mid TR on top of everything.

June 28th..the DDO day that will live in infamy...

what a shame.

[Emili]

I've been playing since November and with the one million plat I have sitting around, I can afford 2 large devil scales.

For some people they drop a lot for others like me not so much ... they seem to drop in spurts really. Bloody annoying actually ... I never bought a large scale most my plat goes into running or back into the guild, am so hooked on yugo pots now I have a 300 to 400 a week habit go figure anyway my pp hovers at about 1 million.

If I calculate all the GS I made since shroud come out comes to a total of 85 large devil scales. This is not counting all the other ingreds and shards. Used to be that first low end shard dropped reasonably well but I do know people on 50 plus runs never pulled one themselves. Typically with a newbie guildie I'll give them enough smalls and mediums (5 ea) to do thier first two tiers on thier first item ... I may send them a large or so for the last tier if they're close to craft.

[Vanshilar]

Ah I will give a fuller reply later but in a hurry, but I wanted to ask if you've accounted for that according to some preliminary testing, madstone's alacrity bonus will be less than the haste spell, at least on Lamannia right now if not in Update 5, so attack speeds will probably have to be adjusted to account for that (I accounted for it in my THF barb pre- and post-update 5 post on the THF thread).

[krud]

THF crits
555 Base (86.5+6seeker x 6)

since I don't have a high level barb maybe you can help me out. Where are you getting the x6 multiplier for the great axe? According to both the wiki and the character builder I only see a +2 bonus to crit multiplier from FB2 plus FB3 (total x5 multiplier). Where am I missing the extra +1 crit multiplier?

[Visty]

since I don't have a high level barb maybe you can help me out. Where are you getting the x6 multiplier for the great axe? According to both the wiki and the character builder I only see a +2 bonus to crit multiplier from FB2 plus FB3 (total x5 multiplier). Where am I missing the extra +1 crit multiplier?

death frenzy gives another +1

[Thorboar]

I'd support the nerf to Kopeshes as long as the dev's allowed us to transfer our GS ingredients used on Kopeshes to another one hander. I wouldn't be too upset to move to heavy picks.

I agree, if the Khopesh was nerfed I would be upset but would not be a game stopper for me as long as we could deconstruct our greensteel items.....

[krud]

death frenzy gives another +1

k, thx

[krud]

Well, my human str based twf khopesh rogue mutt dropped by quite a bit too. Using the same criteria I hit (unboosted vs 0% fort mob):

369dps
408dps pre-nerf.

Throw in any kind of fort and .

[Xyfiel]

Just ran the numbers on my current work in progress, a 12monk/6ranger/2rogue Drow shortsword build. I didn't have the math perfect, but I got 380-390 with sneak, and 400+ against Favored. If someone better with the numbers wants to give it a shot I used 30 str, litany, no seeker, Elf enhancement, rams, shintao set, tharnes, with dual Lit II shortswords. Figured in 8 for strikes.

[grodon9999]

I think this is an excellent solution to Khopeshes

Or just make it a big Scimitar. 18-20/2

[smatt]

Monkey, thatnks for the work, as well as all the others inthis thread!

But I must say HOWDARE YOU DOOM THE DDDDOOOOOOooOOooOoOOOOMMMM!

[Boromirs]

You guys also seem to be not putting in the fact that THF has some range variable also to it (I can backpedal attack/kill many mobs without getting hit) and becomes easier to attack with. TWF has this annoying factor where you have to litterally be sticking to your target to actually attack it (like your characters pixels and the targets pixels have to be side by side.)

[R0cksteady]

You guys also seem to be not putting in the fact that THF has some range variable also to it (I can backpedal attack/kill many mobs without getting hit) and becomes easier to attack with. TWF has this annoying factor where you have to litterally be sticking to your target to actually attack it (like your characters pixels and the targets pixels have to be side by side.)

Have you never played with TWF? You definitely don't have that much of a range difference.

[krud]

I agree, if the Khopesh was nerfed I would be upset but would not be a game stopper for me as long as we could deconstruct our greensteel items.....

I would be happy if they just let us place our old GS into the meridia altar along with a new GS blank to change the weapon, and retain the upgrades.

[Deathseeker]

+1.

I think this may be the single most useful thread I have seen since the forum "nerfapalooza" pandemonium started.

If Monkey has his numbers right (which he usually does), then I think the dev's have hit this right on target in terms of TWF vs THF.

If you like to twitch, great, you get to gain some feats for your trouble.
If you don't like to twitch, you don't take a dps hit.
TWF still superior on single targets.
THF still close enough that it isn't gimped, and still provides superior aoe damage and range.

If these number hold up, I think it's somewhat sad that some people have actually deleted toons due to knee jerk reactions to preliminary beta test information on a release a month away.

I am very curious how the classes compare within the same fighting style...especially TWF ranger vs barb vs ftr and TFH ftr vs barb (very curious about that one).

[Monkey_Archer]

You guys also seem to be not putting in the fact that THF has some range variable also to it (I can backpedal attack/kill many mobs without getting hit) and becomes easier to attack with. TWF has this annoying factor where you have to litterally be sticking to your target to actually attack it (like your characters pixels and the targets pixels have to be side by side.)

TWF can backpedal just as easily as THF can, with only a slightly smaller range.
THF just lost about 15% of its dps while doing so, while TWF remains just as effective. This puts backpedaling TWFs about 30% higher dps then THF, which is my biggest complaint about this upate.