Twitch THF is dead - TWF now reigns supreme

[Hydro]

Since except for in the hands of a Pally the ESos will not bypass raid boss DR so a lightning strike would really be the better weapon for comparison.

So the Epic Sos is beaten for Dps by a minimum level 12 weapon...

Was this really intended?

People say TWF deserves to be more Dps becuase of the investment, I say thf or twf should be a prefference choice and Dps should barely be a factor. I personally don't like twf does that mean my dps with an epic weapons should be significantly lower then a twf with ml12 weapons.

Let me put it this way if 17 dex was a requirement for glancing blows while moving, I would have a 17 dex in a heartbeat.

[Aspenor]

Wouldn't that allow you to make it silver and good damage? That's a little to OP. The SoS is great the way it is, being by far the best two hander.

What evidence do you have, other than your "feelings?" It's "OP" that you can get it to go through devil DR? What exactly are you smoking, because I need some.

[Lithic]

You are comparing a moderate 2h weapon (greataxe) with the ultimate 2wf weapon that requires an extra feat (khopesh). You should be comparing a falcion to a rapier/scimetar without racial benefits (or an elf with benefits to both).

[Aesop]

While I know that most people only really consider raid bosses and single target DPS in these comparisons... how many critters being hit by Glancing Blows would it take for THF to exceed TWF for DPS?

Aesop

[R0cksteady]

You are comparing a moderate 2h weapon (greataxe) with the ultimate 2wf weapon that requires an extra feat (khopesh). You should be comparing a falcion to a rapier/scimetar without racial benefits (or an elf with benefits to both).

Why? How is greataxe a moderate two hander? Isn't it pretty much universally agreed to be the best two hander?

[Emili]

BAB 20 Base + Haste + Madstone
110 TWF
105 THF
129 THF twitch

Except these timings look like they no longer hold true on Lammania... Can someone post a full minute vid am tired of timing it live.

I'd imagine a pally wielding eSoS would be where the real dps is on the weapon by far.

[HeavenlyCloud]

Sucks to be thf then :<

[Anthios888]

Why? How is greataxe a moderate two hander? Isn't it pretty much universally agreed to be the best two hander?

falchions (2d6) and especially greatswords (3d6) trump greataxes (3d6) on many builds because of the increased critical rating

[Hydro]

Ironic how the kopesh which is by far the most overpowered weapon in the game has caused more dps balance issues for the last 4 years and it has never been nerfed...

Epic Sos gets nerfed in less then 3 months...

I will make a deal with the devs, make the kopesh a x2 crit weapon (like pnp) give it a stacking trip increase and I will fully support all the nerfs.

[Chai]

I like how the update isnt even live yet and people are already plowing into threads Glen Beck style with their DPS chalkboards trying to construe that one style is better than the other. I also think its awesome that alot of people who used to be on their high horse for making certain choices, and called people who didnt make the same choices gimps, are now running around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to figure out what the new max dps build will be, because right now they are middle of the road, which is exactly what they were trying to avoid in the first place.

Keep those spreadsheets coming, and please show all your work.

[R0cksteady]

Ironic how the kopesh which is by far the most overpowered weapon in the game has caused more dps balance issues for the last 4 years and it has never been nerfed...

Epic Sos gets nerfed in less then 3 months...

I will make a deal with the devs, make the kopesh a x2 crit weapon (like pnp) give it a stacking trip increase and I will fully support all the nerfs.

That would cause like 90% of TWFs to have to respec and regrind for greensteel.

[Aesop]

Ironic how the kopesh which is by far the most overpowered weapon in the game has caused more dps balance issues for the last 4 years and it has never been nerfed...

Epic Sos gets nerfed in less then 3 months...

I will make a deal with the devs, make the kopesh a x2 crit weapon (like pnp) give it a stacking trip increase and I will fully support all the nerfs.

I think my suggestion for Khopesh was

1d8 19/x2 (20/x3)

Improved Crit or Keen

1d8 17-18/x2 (19-20/x3)

so it has the Crit range and multiplier of a Longsword and a Battleaxe. Would lower its DPS a bit over all but is still superior to the Non-Exotic Weapons.. just not as superior

Aesop

[Lithic]

Why? How is greataxe a moderate two hander? Isn't it pretty much universally agreed to be the best two hander?

This was only true before they equalized 2handed weapon swing speed (though I think the lowly quarterstaff still swings faster). Use to be that a greataxe/maul would swing 5-10% faster than a falcion/greatsword. Now they supposedly swing at the same speed, and therefore a falcion is better than a greataxe, in exactly the same was as a rapier is better than a battleaxe. The more damage buffs you have (and the OP seems to put lots of them on there), the more the falcion pulls ahead.

Edit: Also seeker bonuses to damage heavily favor large crit range weapons over high crit multiplier weapons. Lets assume a +6 seeker bonus. A rapier over 20 swings will gain at best (6 crits x 6 seeker damage x 2 crit multiplier) 72pts of damage, or 3.6/attack. A similar heavy pick will gain (2 crits x 6 seeker damage x 4 crit multiplier) 48 pts of damage, or 2.4/attack. A similar greataxe would only gain (2 crits x 6 seeker dmg x 3 crit multiplier) 36 damage, or 1.6/attack. With seeker 10, the numbers are even more strongly in favor of the falcion.

[Chai]

Ironic how the kopesh which is by far the most overpowered weapon in the game has caused more dps balance issues for the last 4 years and it has never been nerfed...

Epic Sos gets nerfed in less then 3 months...

I will make a deal with the devs, make the kopesh a x2 crit weapon (like pnp) give it a stacking trip increase and I will fully support all the nerfs.

Simply_Awesome.

Seriously, if khopesh was a x2 weapon, like PnP, TWF might still be king, but there sure would be alot more debate over which weapons to use for which builds etc.

DPS spreadsheet geeks, I have a new one for you. Lets compare epic chaos blades, and Lit2 khopesh both at a x2 crit -vs- the eSOS in its nerfed state.

Go.

[Emili]

Ironic how the kopesh which is by far the most overpowered weapon in the game has caused more dps balance issues for the last 4 years and it has never been nerfed...

Epic Sos gets nerfed in less then 3 months...

I will make a deal with the devs, make the kopesh a x2 crit weapon (like pnp) give it a stacking trip increase and I will fully support all the nerfs.

You deserve a spanking even suggesting so... the difference is actually due to the timings of the sequences.

[R0cksteady]

I'd support the nerf to Kopeshes as long as the dev's allowed us to transfer our GS ingredients used on Kopeshes to another one hander. I wouldn't be too upset to move to heavy picks.

[Monkey_Archer]

Ironic how the kopesh which is by far the most overpowered weapon in the game has caused more dps balance issues for the last 4 years and it has never been nerfed...

Epic Sos gets nerfed in less then 3 months...

I will make a deal with the devs, make the kopesh a x2 crit weapon (like pnp) give it a stacking trip increase and I will fully support all the nerfs.

Interesting point... just for comparison:

TWF Scimitars: 399.86 dps
THF Falchion: 373.32 dps

[valorik]

It's a good game decision to keep twf ahead of thf in dps, especially since it's been that way for a VERY long time, and a lot of peopel have built their characters around that concept. There are more costs stat-wise and equipment-wise to twf than thf, and while twf also has an edge for effect weapons, it's still 2x as hard to equip for both effects and dps sets.

[Chai]

You deserve a spanking even suggesting so... the difference is actually due to the timings of the sequences.

naaa. The difference is in the fact that the khopeh is the only weapon type that has more than a x20 crit threat range AND more than a x2 multiplier. All the other weapon types either have more threat but stay x2 or a higher multiplier but a 20 threat.

This is sans named items, of course. We are talking about weapon type here. I think the epic khopesh can stay x3 - just nerf the un-named ones in that weapon category to x2

I dont mind that eSOS gets beat out by epic chaos blades, but I do mind than an epic named item gets beat out by 2 schlub khopesh that anyone can make.

[R0cksteady]

naaa. The difference is in the fact that the khopeh is the only weapon type that has more than a x20 crit threat range AND more than a x2 multiplier. All the other weapon types either have more threat but stay x2 or a higher multiplier but a 20 threat.

This is sans named items, of course. We are talking about weapon type here. I think the epic khopesh can stay x3 - just nerf the un-named ones in that weapon category to x2

I dont mind that eSOS gets beat out by epic chaos blades, but I do mind than an epic named item gets beat out by 2 schlub khopesh that anyone can make.

Maybe I just have bad luck pulling scales, but it took me a LONG time to get my first GS kopesh set, and a lot less time to make my first epic item.