Question: Zen Archery vs. Monk Feats

[TreknaQudane]

Regardless, as I said, centered is not a 3.5E, it's an awkward DDOism. There is no reason what so ever that a monk should lose anything while fireing a bow in 3.5E, they just can't (obviously) flurry with it.

They lose nothing with a bow now.

All the things that required "Centered" are things that build upon and improve Flurry of Blows.

[oweieie]

As far as my "Quote" goes, it wasn't intended to cover weapons, just your insistance that they can "flurry" with a shield; however if you had bothered to follow the link and actually READ the monk features, you would see that monks dont get "Flurry" attacks with anything but a very specific set of "Monk" weapons. However they DONT LOOSE the AC or movement speed bonus while using other weapons.

Monk unarmed attack, PHB pg 41 explicitly allows them to attack unnamed even with their hands full and it doesn't matter whats in their hands. Weapons, shields etc.

Now, call me crazy, but doesn't DDO work basically the same? I mean, I can equip a Khopesh on my monk, and I STILL get my Monk AC Bonus, my Wisdom Bonus, etc. I just dont generate Ki and cant use Ki abilities.

No. You lose wholeness of body, abundant step, stances, and start bleeding off all your ki so you CAN'T use those abilities. It's ALL tied to being centered, and you lose centered for having anything in your hand that isn't a wand, scroll or monk weapon, which is counter to 3.5. Edit: You also lose fast movement for having something in your hand.

I'm starting to think you just refuse to admit when your wrong.

I'm starting to think none of you know how to read.

[oweieie]

They lose nothing with a bow now.

All the things that required "Centered" are things that build upon and improve Flurry of Blows.

You obviously don't play a monk in EITHER 3.5 OR DDO. Why are you talking about them?

[TreknaQudane]

You obviously don't play a monk in EITHER 3.5 OR DDO. Why are you talking about them?

Actually No, I've got a few monks.

And the fact that Improved Unarmed Strike lets a monk attack with their hands full does not override the requirements for Flurry of Blows.

Would you rather have Wholeness of Body only heal 80 per rest and at most around 5 Stunning Fist? Perhaps just 1 Abundant Step that acts as a Dimension Door spell?

I'll grant you that.. Wholeness of Body does have the restriction placed on it that you need Ki to use and that it shouldn't. However considering the alternative is to have it extremely limited to the point of not useful ... Suck it up.

[Aschbart]

And again, AGAIN, your quote says NOTHING about weapons. It is pretty clear that a monk loses NOTHING for having a non-monk weapon in their hand in 3.5. It's a DDOism, as is the stances and almost everything else about the monk.

Think about that for a moment....

What, exactly, do you do in DDO to tell the client you want to do a FoB with your kamas, or quarterstaff, or unarmed? right, you equip the appropriate weaopns. Bingo!

You argument holds to the point where in a PnP campaign you tell your GM that yes, your're holding a sword right now, but you're doing a FoB, wihtout using the sword. That's just fine. But in DDO, the only way to tell the client that you're not gonna use that sword is not holding it in the first place!

[FuzzyDuck81]

It seems impossible that the devs would have made it a monk feat without giving some announcement that Zen Archery was compatible with monks.

According to the writeup it will still uncenter monks, which conflicts with what you'd expect from a name like "Zen". (I suggested that they not only have Zen Archery give you centered longbow/shortbow, but also allow shuriken and arrows to transmit special attacks and Ki income over a short range)

I like the idea of this... a monk/fighter with Kensai & centered with longswords & bows would be a great samurai flavour build now we just need brigandine appearance which doesnt conflict with monk abilities... I'm gonna start planning my fighter12/monk6/wiz1 kensai ninja spy arcane archer now

[TiranBlade]

Actually if you read the "Zen Archery"* feat from the "Complete Warrior" Supplement it stats that you apply your WIS modifier to all ranged attacks, even though it was termed Zen Archery. Meaning you could use it in combination with the Shuriken.

However, in DDO in terms with going with the flavor of Archery from the name have made it where you only apply the WIS modifier on missle weapon attacks. So the feat fuctions completely different with no practical application for the monk.

The feat described that applies your WIS modifier to Simple Weapon attacks is a feat in the Book of Exalted Deeds called "Intuitive Attack"** and was an Exalted Feat(Good Aligned Only).

*ZEN ARCHERY [GENERAL]
Your intuition guides your hand when you use a ranged weapon.
Prerequisites: Wis 13, base attack bonus +1
Benefit: You can use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Dexterity modifier when making a ranged attack roll.

**INTUITIVE ATTACK [EXALTED]

You fight by faith more than brute strength.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: With a simple weapon of your size or a natural
weapon, you may use your Wisdom modifier instead of your
Strength modifier on attack rolls.
Special: A fighter may select Intuitive Attack as one of his

fighter bonus feats.

[transtemporal]

I agree with Turbines implementation, since making it centered would just encourage monks to gimp their dps even more.