Mysterious Bauble and Epic Spell Storing Ring

[Paragon]

Update 5 is just the place for nerfs, now isn't it. Both the Mysterious Bauble and the Epic Spell Storing Ring have been reduced to clickies of Greater Mnemonic Enhancement (55-300sp) instead of Major Mnemonic Enhancement (105-500sp?). The Epic Spell Storing Ring I can sort of see why. It gives (on live) about 300sp per use for a total of 900sp. That is a LOT of extra sp. It could be potentially overpowering. The reduction to Greater Mnemonic Enhancement still lets you get ~525sp from the ring, which is still useful and still good enough to consider and Epic item. It lets you get away without using a mana potion in many situations when you might otherwise have had to.

The Mysterious Bauble, however, is a different matter. Why has it been nerfed as well? I don't know what the resoning is behind this and I don't like it.

The mysterious bauble among a few very nice items that really aided mages and healers in a game where spell points are an extremely limited resource. Yes, it was good, but there was really nothing broken about it. If you couldn't get the job done with the mana you had, it's unlikely another 300 or so would make the difference. However, sometimes it did. Occasionally, casters would need a bit of extra mana to finish nuking the end boss, or healers would be able to keep the melees up for just long enough on that extra bit for a win.

300sp gives healers enough juice to throw about 5-6 mass heals, which can keep a good party going for another minute or more. In quests with these good parties, the high amount of DPS means raids last 10-15 minutes and quest end-fights only last 2-3. Another minute can make a fair difference and prevent mana potion drinking in most solid groups. In less solid ones, where more frequent healing and thus mass cures are needed, 300sp provides about enough mana for 4 mass cures. Assuming one is substituted for a mass heal, you're still probably only going to keep the party up for another 20-30 seconds. And in a poor group, that won't cut it. Thus the extra 300sp is good but not overpowered--it can be very nice when use in conjunction with a good group, but it alone will never mean the difference between victory and defeat.

For all the rest of the cases where it saw use, it essentially meant one less potion that a strained cleric or caster needed to drink to bring a quest to completion. Chugging mana pots is no fun for anyone. Gaining about 175 mana instead of 300 is going to mean you have to drink an extra potion in many quests. No one wants to do this; spending pots tends to take all the fun out of a quest instantly due to the immense drain their use represents on the resources of a caster or healer.

Thanks to the Mysterious Bauble, I have been able to have more fun on more quests where the drinking of mana potions is reduced/unnecessary because of it. In addition, I have been able to join more groups and pugs that I would not normally consider thanks to having it as a backup/buffer between me and needing to drink mana pots. Without its full effect, I will no doubt be much more hesitant to heal pugs and join groups. It will be one less item that I am enthusiastic to grind for. In effect, I truly believe that the change will take much of the usefulness out of the item and a significant amount of fun out of the game.

Further, consider the balance between the Mysterious Bauble and the Epic Ring of Spell Storing. Currently, at giving about 300sp per use, I have found the Mysterious Bauble to be useful but not overpowered. I can see that the current live version of the Epic Spell Storing Ring might be a different matter at giving ~900sp. Under this situation, players who are not the best of the best and not quite up to Epic can get a nice, useful item. However, players who can grind out the Epic Spell Storing Ring stand to gain immense, possibly broken, power.

In the next update, the Epic Ring of Spell Storing will still be useful, giving ~525sp. This will be a powerful item and worthy of Epic loot, but a lot less potentially broken. However, the Mysterious Bauble will now give ~175sp. This is barely enough for three mass heals and only two mass cures, doing little more than keeping a party alive for 30-40 seconds. Almost any healer that needs to use it will be unable to avoid using mana pots. Casters are in a similar boat, gaining only about 3 spells from it. The chances that you can do what it takes with only three more spells are very low for either case. Players will almost never find it serving at its current best--when it makes a quest immensely more fun by preventing the need to use mana pots. Instead it will become a mere prelude to drinking mana pots.

The result will be that Epic players can get a great item that makes their quests significantly more fun while non-epic players are left out, being given a second-rate item that will rarely do much good.

Now consider a third option--change only the Epic Spell Storing Ring and not the Mysterious Bauble. Now the Epic Spell Storing Ring would give ~525sp. This is enough for 8-9 mass heals and could be very nice for well-built groups. It is still useful. It is powerful and worthy of Epic. On the other hand, the Mysterious Bauble still gives ~300sp. This allows a good group to get another minute or so worth of healing and lets their healer have much more fun by not needing to use mana pots. Finally, for those with both items (probably most epic players), the combination only gives 125sp more than nerfing both items--not enough to cause worry about breaking anything.

The result of changing only the Epic Spell Storing Ring and not the Mysterious Bauble is that Epic players still have a powerful (but balanced) item at their disposal while non-epic players get a nice item that helps them out and can keep decently good groups a lot more fun.

[Mellkor]

Reason they did this was to sell more pots. Nerf DPS sell more pots. Nerf SSR. Sell more pots. Nerf baubble. Sell more pots. Etc, Etc. Etc.

[Spisey]

Reason they did this was to sell more pots. Nerf DPS sell more pots. Nerf SSR. Sell more pots. Nerf baubble. Sell more pots. Etc, Etc. Etc.

[Paragon]

Reason they did this was to sell more pots. Nerf DPS sell more pots. Nerf SSR. Sell more pots. Nerf baubble. Sell more pots. Etc, Etc. Etc.

While you may well be right, it is my sincere hope this is not the case.... I hope Turbine is willing to listen to reasons on this one.

[ArloOne]

So Tolero? Could you take the time to explain your point of view on these points?

[DANTEIL]

However, the Mysterious Bauble will now give ~175sp. This is barely enough for three mass heals and only two mass cures, doing little more than keeping a party alive for 30-40 seconds.

Speaking as someone who hasn't even so much as sniffed at a Mysterious Bauble (much less a Ring of Spell Storing) that sounds better than nothing, especially if I'm running out of SP.

[HonricArgent]

I'm also very disappointed in this change. Frankly, I dont think even the Epic Ring of Spell Storing should have been nerfed. The amount of extra sp it provides is ridiculous, yes, but so are the drop rates on the seal, shard, and scroll of the **** thing. This is not an easy item to make by any metric, not even for epic. And for this reason, very few people have them.

It's my belief that Turbine is shooting themselves in the foot here. The theory is that this nerf is to increase demand for ddostore sp pots. While this may work in the case of the Bauble, I believe it will have the opposite effect for the Epic Ring of Spell Storing. Compare: the number of people who buy and use ddostore mana pots to get through challenging epic sands quests for a chance at finding ingredients for the ring... to the number of people who have actually completed the ring and can use it as a mana source.

As for nerfing the Bauble? Not many people were needing ddostore sp pots to get through Weapon Shipment, so Turbine may have made the right business decision in that case. At worst this may make casual players less interested in purchasing the Amrath pack. But it's still a brutal nerf for classes that already have to shoulder a massive burden vis-a-vis sp pots. All these dps nerfs across the board are unfortunate for the affected classes, but what they ultimately mean are longer runs and more expenses for casters and healers.

[Wizard_Zero]

These two items are needed, they don't need to change. Like 5 people in the entire game have eSSR, cause it's such a pain to get. And they aren't just for the Arcanes. Healers need them. No one likes playing healer anymore, especially considering the amount of resources it takes (I will never spend TP/money on SP potions, I rather fail the quest, I'm not rich!). And not to mention the **** you take from other players. Quest failure, who's to blame... the healer. No one every thinks of the bad melees out there who do horrible damage and has 0 AC, or caster who don't know how to use the right spells, but no one would ever know, cause you can't see their battle records (Don't we all wish we could see others' combat records at one time or another). Wonder why healers are so hard to find?

Besides that little sidetrack, Epic mobs HP has increase by almost x8. A 500 HP knoll on Normal now has about 3000- 5000 on Epic. I don't see my blue bar jumping from 2500 to 20000 to compensate. And that is just HP, not factoring x3 times damage increase which mean even more healing. "Normal" Shroud is hard enough many times. Even on normal, I get in a group where DPS sucks and I have to chug a pot or two. Amarth Elite? You know you are gonna chug some pots, even some of Vale's Elites requires a chug every now and again.

These items are mostly used for Epic/very late game quest, not like a lvl 11 wiz is gonna whip these out on Sor'Jac. With enemies HP Octopuling (My new word) a eSSR and Bauble increases SP by 1200. Only a 50% increase in total SP, while enemies get 800% increase in HP and 300% increase in Damage.

Don't get me started on Update 5 melee nerfs (Or so I hear), which equal even more healing is going to be needed. Turbine, think of the healers! The few that each server has left.

[SteeleTrueheart]

The Mysterious Bauble, however, is a different matter. Why has it been nerfed as well? I don't know what the resoning is behind this and I don't like it.

If they dont nerf it now, what would they do for the current mysterious bauble when it finally gets epic modified?

This is an easily farmable quest, even solo, that drops an item that is almost as powerful as the new SSR epic version. The new SSR epic version you are ok with the change but not the non epic item?

Dont get me wrong I am still trying to get a bauble but it took me months to get a bloodstone too.

[R0cksteady]

If they dont nerf it now, what would they do for the current mysterious bauble when it finally gets epic modified?

This is an easily farmable quest, even solo, that drops an item that is almost as powerful as the new SSR epic version. The new SSR epic version you are ok with the change but not the non epic item?

Dont get me wrong I am still trying to get a bauble but it took me months to get a bloodstone too.

You really think Epic will be made epic any time soon? Why? Epic is just being used as a cheap way to make low level quests count as high level so the devs don't have to make actual high level content. And the items there really don't need to get better.

Is that really the way you want epic to work anyway? Nerf the item so later when it gets an epic version it is as powerful as it should have been without epic and nerfs?

[Rumbaar]

Yeah there are so many nerfs in this update that I'm sure they planned it to be all at once to limit the amount of feedback they can get from multiple sources.

A lot of it does seem to try and push the in game store purchases as the outcome. It's a shame they can't even guarantee that premium players can purchase from the store or remain active.

I feel for all those that paid millions of plat for SSR scrolls. As for the bauble it's a L18 bound to character item, that is easy to farm but hard to get. So not sure why they did that either.

Maybe to nerf casters to share the nerfs they did to TWF and weighted users [double monk nerf]

[Paragon]

If they dont nerf it now, what would they do for the current mysterious bauble when it finally gets epic modified?

This is an easily farmable quest, even solo, that drops an item that is almost as powerful as the new SSR epic version. The new SSR epic version you are ok with the change but not the non epic item?

Dont get me wrong I am still trying to get a bauble but it took me months to get a bloodstone too.

I don't believe Amrath will ever be made epic. Its raid loot is already crafted material and the area is high level content without being made Epic.

Yes, I think I can see that ~900sp from one item and ~300sp from another is a bit too much. But ~525 from one and ~300 for a total of ~825 is about as well balanced as ~525 from one and ~175 from the other for about 700. Changing the ~900sp item seems perfectly in order if you want to balance things, but nerfing the 300sp one will have a much larger impact on the usefulness of the item and a much, much larger impact on the playerbase, since, as you point out, the item is easily farmable and many more players have it.

[bloodyrag]

A lot of this update is a push to sell more things in the store. theyve hit upon a jackpot introducing the store and now are looking at any way to make more money. happy to see an attempt at lag reduction but some of the rest is a blatant money maker

[vVAnjilaVv]

Don't forget...Turbine has a very hungry mouth to feed now......WB.

It's like the ammo usage when u go from using a bow to being proficient at a repeater and using that.

Aside from that...OMG guys get off your duff and do a little grinding.

Take ur level 20 whatever....go to GH, grind walkups on casual.

Major Mnemonics will show up in the end reward list about 1 in 3....sometimes more often. This is not hard to do and all 6 walkups can be solo'ed with hirelings if need be.......you can also do the pre-req's but they take a little longer to complete.

One thing to note, the end reward list for A Cry for Help is longer than the other five quest end lists, make sure to scroll to the bottom.

I find doing this fun as not only do I get a bunch of tomes and mnemonics, I get a bunch of twink gear for my lowbies. BTW, if ur playing a non-spell casting class just turn your based on class off, or u can leave it on, as I think Mnemonics drop for everyone as they are also an ailment potion...removes feeblemind.

So average 1 out of 3.....that's 3 pots per quest.....that's 18 majors.

[Ganak]

OG not mai baubles!!!!!

[Spisey]

nekst day'll beh taekin mah kwoalwah bweahr!

[ddoer]

Mysterious Bauble is not mentioned in the release note so the change should be a bug. if it goes live, everyone who own a bauble should fire a bug report.

both of the two items shall not be nerf'd.

There is nothing wrong to keep an uber caster/healer item to keep the high end gamer motivated to play the game. and on epic, there are actual need for those items as casters and healers don't usually have enough mana.

[Alexander_Illusioni]

While we can hope this may be a bug, I would not anticipate that is the case. While 125 mana points is not huge deal, neither unbalancing if left alone nor if nerfed, the point remains, many have run this quest to death in order to get this item. To those that have, this is a nerf, and does nothing for customer relations. Leaving it as is could hardly be viewed as unbalancing by anyone...two extra spells cast.

The epic spell storing ring was a bit over the top though, as an average 900 spell points is a big advantage for any caster. If this needs to be toned down so be it, and like some have said, this will affect very few people at this time, but the baubble will affect many of your customers negatively.

While the 125 point average reduction to the baubble does not seem like a huge deal, I am sure many players will stop running this quest as frequently in order to get this item. Keep a reason for them to keep playing this content, please leave the baubble unchanged.

[R0cksteady]

While we can hope this may be a bug, I would not anticipate that is the case. While 125 mana points is not huge deal, neither unbalancing if left alone nor if nerfed, the point remains, many have run this quest to death in order to get this item. To those that have, this is a nerf, and does nothing for customer relations. Leaving it as is could hardly be viewed as unbalancing by anyone...two extra spells cast.

The epic spell storing ring was a bit over the top though, as an average 900 spell points is a big advantage for any caster. If this needs to be toned down so be it, and like some have said, this will affect very few people at this time, but the baubble will affect many of your customers negatively.

While the 125 point average reduction to the baubble does not seem like a huge deal, I am sure many players will stop running this quest as frequently in order to get this item. Keep a reason for them to keep playing this content, please leave the baubble unchanged.

I agree.

I have a bauble. I have some pots, and get donated some as I'm a cleric. I liek to keep them for emergency use.

But if the bauble takes 3 times as long to use, and pots give more, I'll probably never use the bauble anymore. Which means I'm going to be spending even more in game gold just to be able to keep up in longer raids (elite ToD, Elite VoD usually takes a pot or 2).

[Visty]

I agree.

I have a bauble. I have some pots, and get donated some as I'm a cleric. I liek to keep them for emergency use.

But if the bauble takes 3 times as long to use, and pots give more, I'll probably never use the bauble anymore. Which means I'm going to be spending even more in game gold just to be able to keep up in longer raids (elite ToD, Elite VoD usually takes a pot or 2).

because the time matters to get some sp back after buffing, right?