Nerf your Nerf Turbine

[LadyKallie]

Did you read my post. I have played DDO before. I stopped to play LOTRO for awhile. Feedback yes, out right complaining, that is a whole different story. There are people over at the LOTRO forums that out right complain and get shut down quick. Not saying that you are doing it. There are ways to go about it that get your point across better.

[Buggss]

Then I suggest you stay away from forums. Forums = people complaining.

I understand what you mean but it's not what you said; Forums are for people to offer their opinions which in some cases includes complaining, offering constructive suggestions and giving feedback.

How about you don't tell me what to do. I have been around since this game was actually Stormreach before it went F2P. Turbine does what is best for the game. You don't like it then too bad

You played SINCE before F2P?! OOOOO You vet you, ain't you special?

Be serious, many people (myself included) have played in various formats since or before launch and have seen every change and alteration in the game. In mant cases we've seen long-term players get annoyed about changes in the game and many, many of them leave, none of which has been for the "best of the game". The difference with DDO is the maturity of the majority of the players compared to most MMO's so one person leaving invariably drags many others away.

Trust me, Turbine has performed some BIG mistakes over the years. People DO have a right to complain, after all we are paying. Of course we have the right not to pay and at some point people reach that point and do so.

Everytime (well, not EVERYtime) it's a loss for the game

Give everyone a free Heart of Wood.

This would make good sense to me, binding of course. Specifically for those who spent 4+ years on a character based around TWF melee, created gear and playstyles only now to have it significantly changed. You'll notice I said changed, not nerfed as we don't know yet whether or not it'll be a bad or a good change.

Either way it's a big change and people shoul be able to change too if they want to.

That's enough for now....

[rykim]

Did you read my post. I have played DDO before. I stopped to play LOTRO for awhile. Feedback yes, out right complaining, that is a whole different story. There are people over at the LOTRO forums that out right complain and get shut down quick. Not saying that you are doing it. There are ways to go about it that get your point across better.

I didn't ask if you've played DDO before.. I asked (and I'm asking once again, 3rd time),
"How many high level (capped even) toons do you have?" Simple question.. If you've not gone thru the grind of working/raiding for a toon months on end.. then how would you understand the disappointment of the player base?


Don't cloud the point of my previous posts...

I'm thinking you can't empathize with the rest of us cause you haven't run toons like the rest of us.

[Buggss]

....emphasize with the rest of us cause you haven't run toons like the rest of us.

I may be wrong but I assume you mean "Empathise" which means something totally different, right?

And yes you're right. With the content of the posts you're talking about I'd be surprised if there were any capped toons.

[rykim]

Too much vodka.. heh

[gillilandjoshua]

im a little upset myself after capping many toons in the past and building a twf stunn specced toon just for epic content. i fell i have been cheated for the time i spent on that toon and they cant compensate my time on that toon. thanks alot for killing some of my fun.

[Skirmish]

If you're going to make all these sweeping changes across the board, then why don't you offer/give everyone 2 free feat exchanges so they can keep up with your changes/nerfs to the game. And for two weapon and 2 handed builds, give them 3 so they can take advantage of your changes.

All I'm asking is that you be fair and equitable Turbine. Instead of bleeding us for Turbine Points.

I agree that, if possible, they should either flag every toon that has twf and give them free feat exchanges or mail them the proper stones for the feat exchange due to this being a rather massive change to the combat system. I myself usually splash TWF for my combat toons for the DPS/extra weapon effect. Thus it is mostly wasted now. The simpler solution would be as suggested. Just give everyone a single regular heart of wood so they could respend their toon in it's current form/class but altering the feats as needed.

While I have no issue personally rounding up the stones for my mid/low level toons that have it splashed, my high levels have only managed to put together 2 of the proper stones to exchange feats at lvls 18+. It's a ton of work to fix something that doesn't work for you anymore. Unless of course you go to the store. CoH and many other games offer the ability to fix such things whenever they alter the game significantly. While not entirely necessary, it would be nice if Turbine did the same.

[KillEveryone]

Forums are not for complaining. Forums are for asking questions from the whole player base that you can't do in game. I have playing MMOs since 2004, UO, SWG, EQ 1 and 2, Guild Wars, DDO Stormreach, Warhammer, LOTRO and of course WoW. So as you can see I have leveled a lot of toons. I just go with the flow if there are changes. I don't complain because it usually doesn't get you anywhere.

If I want to complain then I will. I know no other way to get someone from Turbine to hear my concerns.

My idea of fun is building the best build that I can and then playing with that character.

I'm a min/maxer.

I'm a powergamer.

I don't do casual.

I'm outspoken as a person. If I think you need to know what I'm thinking then you will hear what I'm thinking and this forums allows me to tell Turbine what I'm thinking.

I've posted several time before...pointed out by another forumite...but I agree about the respec thing. If Turbine changes the rules that we all built our characters using then they should give a respec for those characters affected. We don't know where they are going to go with the game otherwise we could build their changes into our characters but we don't so we didn't. That does take away from some of the fun.

I would rather they added STWF in so that my off hand gets 100% instead of 80% for my fighter and rogue. I liked the idea of having a vorpal or paralizer in the off hand being useful but I'm unsure if that will be the case. I liked having a nice DPS build. I sacraficed some CON to add to DEX so that I could have a TWF DPS but now it is going to be "balanced." Fighters are about the only build that I can accept a lower CON score than what I typically use. I had to sacrafice a few STR for my rogue so i can get the DEX and a few extra points into INT and WIS to be able to deal with traps but I didn't sacrafice CON there.

DnD wasn't really ever balanced. Every character had their strengths and weeknesses. That has been the way of the game. A barbarian has a lot of HP and STR but no AC. A fighter can be versitle but if you go TWF you do give up something and since AC means nothing untill you have some specific gear then DPS was what you got for sacrificing some HP.

A rogue is the only class that offers Traps or Lockpicking. Are we going to add another class that can do this so that we can "balance" things. One class with this type ability is over powered. There are 2 types of arcanes that can nuke, 2 types of divines that can be offensive casters or healers. 2 types of melee focused classes that have some survivability on the front line. Rangers and rogues are dps but they don't have very many hp. Monks can be in the same boat but they can hit a meaningful AC without some crazy grind.

Watchout monks...Turbine is giving you AC without a grind. You will probably be next on the nerf list since that is overpowered.

[Kace]

Nerf your nerf Turbine

aww, from the title I was expecting this thread to be horrible insults written by a smurf with a cold

[ninjaeli]

Oh, obviously. That's why they drove away thousands of regular monthly subscribers with lack of timely content, content that wasn't what the players asked for, scapegoating the players for the lag, nerfing everything the players like, nerfing adaptations the players make after previous nerfs, and just generally acting like 12 year old bullies with a magnifying glass and an ant farm on a sunny day.

Playing teacher's pet is a game for kids and Forest Gump.

life is like a box of chocolates u never know what you're gonna get....

[Demeron]

[kurand]

If you're going to make all these sweeping changes across the board, then why don't you offer/give everyone 2 free feat exchanges so they can keep up with your changes/nerfs to the game. And for two weapon and 2 handed builds, give them 3 so they can take advantage of your changes.

All I'm asking is that you be fair and equitable Turbine. Instead of bleeding us for Turbine Points.

Honestly,them having never given feat/skill resets is utterly and total BS,you make a major change to the game you should reset feats so people can rebuild their characters for maximized effect,not be stuck with a now gimp system.

Iwent AFK for 3 years,come back and I get one free feat reset,all those changes done in 3 years and I am supposed to get by on one feat reset?good thing I was able to get some cash from the risia games and get lucky to get +3 lessers in the egg hunt so that I could fix 3 of my characters.

[rykim]

I agree that, if possible, they should either flag every toon that has twf and give them free feat exchanges or mail them the proper stones for the feat exchange due to this being a rather massive change to the combat system. I myself usually splash TWF for my combat toons for the DPS/extra weapon effect. Thus it is mostly wasted now. The simpler solution would be as suggested. Just give everyone a single regular heart of wood so they could respend their toon in it's current form/class but altering the feats as needed.

While I have no issue personally rounding up the stones for my mid/low level toons that have it splashed, my high levels have only managed to put together 2 of the proper stones to exchange feats at lvls 18+. It's a ton of work to fix something that doesn't work for you anymore. Unless of course you go to the store. CoH and many other games offer the ability to fix such things whenever they alter the game significantly. While not entirely necessary, it would be nice if Turbine did the same.

Actually that might be more efficient. Not necessarily a true heartwood, but at least a lesser or better yet a +3 lesser heartwood for those of us with toons that have 2 levels of monk or ranger.

[Limey]

"I played EQ1 blah blah"

Bah, noobs. I played Meridian 59. When you died all your stuff could be looted by anyone!

Anyway the point is we have a right to complain about the proposed changes before thay happen. If they turn out as bad as we thought, we will complain some more. If not we will ignore the forums for a while until our rage posts fade away.

[Doxmaster]

I kinda wish there was a poll option here, ya know? Then when we say "obviously everyone..." we will have legitimate data backing up our opinion: "300 people, in the last hour, agree that...". It will never change anyone's opinion, ever, since no one will admit they can be wrong on the internet, but it would help a little. Possibly...

Till we get that, I will side with the conservative 'No free respec' side, merely because I don't want to think of what kind of things would happen if the DEVs tried to send everyone (or, and this is truly terrifying...Specific people) an item, enable free lesser res-ing or anything else like that. I kind of like being able to cast spells and attack and such after all, and there is no garentee that we will still be able to do so after they tinker around.

Never forget the Lag fixes.
Never forget Original Pale master.
Never forget.

[Clay]

Forums are not for complaining. Forums are for asking questions from the whole player base that you can't do in game. I have playing MMOs since 2004, UO, SWG, EQ 1 and 2, Guild Wars, DDO Stormreach, Warhammer, LOTRO and of course WoW. So as you can see I have leveled a lot of toons. I just go with the flow if there are changes. I don't complain because it usually doesn't get you anywhere.

bah. Get your head out of the sand... Do you know any vibrant community filled with only One kind of person?

You play the game your way, I'll play my way. I'll post my way, and you post your way... as long as neither of us break the rules... neither of us is wrong. Your complaining about my complaining is childish, like a child not getting it's way. Live and let live. not everyone has to enjoy the game/forums the way you do... so i flip your own advice back to you: let it go.

Someone breaks the rules... cal them on it... someone posts an opinion different from your own... post a reply that does not consist solely of: stop complaining. That is as childish as" that's what you are but what am I."

[tallesyne]

now before i get grief i have not been playing ddo for as long as most. about 6 months actually. but, i have been playing dnd in all its different modes since the early eighties. though i have left at times from issues with different changes. the makers of dnd have always made the changes and always taken care of loyal players. my wf barbarian is only lvl7 so not sure what changes will affect him, but, i gotta trust that a game i have loved for so long would not change now. i am SURE if the changes become tooo drastic they will take care of it. ESPACIALLY for those of you who have invested so much tim and money. I look forward to meeting you all on the fields of battle.

Mechstalker lvl 7 wf barbarian, Dunigan Flameholm lvl 6 pal/ 4 ranger, Tomarick Underhill lvl 9 ranger

[Kalari]

now before i get grief i have not been playing ddo for as long as most. about 6 months actually. but, i have been playing dnd in all its different modes since the early eighties. though i have left at times from issues with different changes. the makers of dnd have always made the changes and always taken care of loyal players. my wf barbarian is only lvl7 so not sure what changes will affect him, but, i gotta trust that a game i have loved for so long would not change now. i am SURE if the changes become tooo drastic they will take care of it. ESPACIALLY for those of you who have invested so much tim and money. I look forward to meeting you all on the fields of battle.

Mechstalker lvl 7 wf barbarian, Dunigan Flameholm lvl 6 pal/ 4 ranger, Tomarick Underhill lvl 9 ranger

I miss feeling that way and six months is a good invested time im glad your liking ddo. But changes will happen. This game had changed when I came here in 07 and has changed a lot since then its slowly becoming another game for many of us and I know its hard to understand but I cant explain how it affects me personally to those who dont want to understand or think it doesnt matter. (Not you just in general).

When I came here we had Euphoria's challenge a newbie area that showed you the basics of game play, there was also little side quests based on proffession you could go into and learn what you would bring to your party. Then you got shipped off to stormreach and wave crest where you helped the tavern owner get his grog and fought some annoying kobolds. Trust me squishy builds had a time with old Drexylhand back then but it was fun. You got out of the tavern where you were told "Find others to help you in your journey" a good tip as ddo was a team style game. You made friends in the harbor and went on your first chain quest of the good blades (mind you I came after the harbor became unlocked from having to do survive the low roads). Then you ventured around the harbor till you were strong enough to do water works with your party. Beating those pesky kobolds and holy **** ogres..was thrilling and allowed you to get to the marketplace without having to bribe your way in. From there you got the basic lowdown of the game, you learned what your function maybe in a party, you learned that making a party is important to your survival and growth and learned the starts of team work.

Now there were players who didnt really like the whole need to group dont blame them ive had times where I wanted to solo as well but I still liked the core "Group" mentality ddo had. Now adays you dont have to group you can bring a hireling or use the store to get you threw most quests. They changed the make up of many quests, changed trap damage or placement got rid of fail mechanics for vons 2, added scaling so that even soloing doesnt have the same achievement feel to it that it used to (my opinion). So you see this game has changed for many of us big time and many of us miss feeling the way you do that Turbine has our best interest in their minds along with ways to make that buck. They had me for a good 2+ years because this game felt unique like a real online dungeons and dragons session. Now its starting to feel different and Im not liking it. Now instead of thinking about new builds im going to be wondering if I want to spend money to fix builds I enjoyed putting together so they wont be a waste of a party slot in high level quests. And I do not have min/max builds I dont have exploiter builds I have a multiclass build that enjoyed twf and a pure rogue that did that did not sit and plan out feats for a future where their fighting would be nerfed. Guess I should have known better

[smatt]

Oh, obviously. That's why they drove away thousands of regular monthly subscribers with lack of timely content, content that wasn't what the players asked for, scapegoating the players for the lag, nerfing everything the players like, nerfing adaptations the players make after previous nerfs, and just generally acting like 12 year old bullies with a magnifying glass and an ant farm on a sunny day.

Playing teacher's pet is a game for kids and Forest Gump.

Hmm, 12 year old bullies against 12 year old spoiled crybabies.....

Yep, seems about right...

Why cry before you actually have a clue what the REAL effects are? Seems the nerfs are pretty even across the board. So those that "thought" they were uber before are still on top of the pile...
More changes and adjustments wll come before it goes live.. And more nerfs and over-powering will come in the future.. Welcome to life... It's very rarely fair...
It's a big who the **** cares to be honest...

Would you like me to cut the crust off that sandwich for you? Really, it's no problem... How about a bendy straw for that fruit punch? Wouldn't want you to have to take the chance of tweaking your neck

[Deathseeker]

Forums are not for complaining. Forums are for asking questions from the whole player base that you can't do in game. I have playing MMOs since 2004, UO, SWG, EQ 1 and 2, Guild Wars, DDO Stormreach, Warhammer, LOTRO and of course WoW. So as you can see I have leveled a lot of toons. I just go with the flow if there are changes. I don't complain because it usually doesn't get you anywhere.

LadyKallie, your entire line of posts in this thread are just as inflammatory and non-productive as those you are complaining about. I'm someone who is looking forward to U5, thinks the reaction to the nerfs is way over-the-top, and is generally a very positive supporter of the direction the devs have taken the game. But with all that said, I find your approach here just as non-productive as all of those "omg sky is falling, devs hate us" threads.

Forums are for dialogue and feedback. Some of us are giving positive feedback to what's coming. Others are complaining. Complaints are just as legitimate as positive feedback. As long as it's done in a productive way following forum guidelines, it's useful feedback even if you disagree.

You have every right to post what you are posting of course, just as the doom and gloom sky is falling complainers do, but it's just as unproductive no matter which side of the debate you are on.