What is my dex ranger supposed to do in epic now?

[Xeraphim]

With weighted being nerfed big time, what are dex based characters supposed to do in epic? No point in taking stunning blow even if they can spare the feat (even though they probably can't), since the DC would be too low anyway. So my options are to either TR into a strength build, or farm all the stuff on a different character and pass it to the dex build? Bleh! This nerf sucks a lot of fun out of the game.

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Weapon:Epic_Zephyr

Swap off with the Epic Tenderizer, when it comes out.

Also: Just bring a Barb along.

Warhammer spec'd with Stunning Blow and lots of Rage effects to stack(Madstone, Rage Pot, Rage, Frenzy, Death Frenzy, and maybe a click or two of Titan's Grip for those with high Fort saves).

[Seamonkeysix]

With weighted being nerfed big time, what are dex based characters supposed to do in epic? No point in taking stunning blow even if they can spare the feat (even though they probably can't), since the DC would be too low anyway. So my options are to either TR into a strength build, or farm all the stuff on a different character and pass it to the dex build? Bleh! This nerf sucks a lot of fun out of the game.

Go Arcane Archer?

[Stanley_Nicholas]

Well it looks like I wasn't just missing something obvious. All of the "options" people have posted fall somewhere on a scale ranging from disappointing and unappealing, to inconceivable and flat out insulting. The best option of the bunch is crafting earthgrab weapons, but if the weighted nerf goes through without changes you can bet earthgrab will be next on the chopping block. I hope someone on the Turbine side is aware of this problem because it really does need to be addressed - I just wish I could think of a good way.

Maybe it would be best just to leave weighted as it is for now. I recognize that it's a bit silly for that one particular effect to be so desirable in epic content and something probably ought to be done about it, but it also allows a lot of legitimate builds to be contributors who otherwise wouldn't be very useful at all. Any solution that doesn't have a disproportionately negative impact on the builds that were already weaker to begin with isn't going to be a simple one.

[kaelis]

Well it looks like I wasn't just missing something obvious. All of the "options" people have posted fall somewhere on a scale ranging from disappointing and unappealing, to inconceivable and flat out insulting. The best option of the bunch is crafting earthgrab weapons, but if the weighted nerf goes through without changes you can bet earthgrab will be next on the chopping block. I hope someone on the Turbine side is aware of this problem because it really does need to be addressed - I just wish I could think of a good way.

Maybe it would be best just to leave weighted as it is for now. I recognize that it's a bit silly for that one particular effect to be so desirable in epic content and something probably ought to be done about it, but it also allows a lot of legitimate builds to be contributors who otherwise wouldn't be very useful at all. Any solution that doesn't have a disproportionately negative impact on the builds that were already weaker to begin with isn't going to be a simple one.

You don't wanna go pew pew pew like every other ranger on the server nao?

[Stanley_Nicholas]

You don't wanna go pew pew pew like every other ranger on the server nao?

In certain situations I don't mind it, but not as my primary mode of dps. Not worth considering until they make that future pass on ranged combat itself.

[gfunk]

Dex based lost alot when w/p was nerfed into oblivion. More so from the rampant introduction of blanket immunities, than from the change to how w/p functioned really, imo.

I've never been a fan of monk-splash rangers, so in the past I had attempted to keep my AC on my dex ranger as high as possible while still keeping reasonable STR. Prior to the change to the tempest AC bonus, it was easy to get over 70 AC on a pure build, keeping power attack on. Now, I find that a bit more impractical.

So why not go STR based? For me its because pure ranger AC in the mid 60's is still good when I am in the mood for soloing, and it does mitigate damage in some end game raids. Another, reason is to maintain a decent to-hit bonus with ranged. Finally, its because I have str based characters and like the OP, I appreciate variety.

In my opinion, one of the chief problems with the finesse build is the need to take the feat (and the unfortunate tendancy for some people to start with too low str). In order to get rid of the need for the feat and to help out my characters epic efficiency, I plan on:

1) TR'ing as a fighter up to 3 times for +3 to hit (and then dump weapon finesse, starting with a 16 str (+4 tome, +2rams might, +7 item, +3 exceptional = 32 pre rage)
2) TR'ing as a ranger 3 times for +6 to ranged damage (For manyshot in some of those narrow epic quest corridors).
3) free'd up finesse feat slot could be used for: toughness, empower healing (have nearly 800 sp), umd, proficiency repeater, or stunning blow (depending on how new stuning mechanic works).

Rangers are pretty desirable for epic DQ, even if they aren't range spec'd. I think you can do a credible job with DPS in other epic quests combining reasonable STR+melee+good Favored enemy choices alternating with judicious use of manyshot.

In short, grind for every last piece of gear needed to make this work (lots of to-hit gear and STR items), and then drive yourself mad tr'ing.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

Yeah, I have 6 other high level melee of assorted classes that are strength based, so the dex ranger is to add a bit of variety. I went halfling for the extra dex and AC, figuring I could make up for the lower str with racial backstab enhancements. Even then, I went with 12 starting str - the most a halfling can do without spending 2 build points for each stat point.

You're right about epic DQ, at least I'll still be useful in there. I guess I'll just use my other melees instead for any non-raid epics. The new BTA and raid->dungeon nature of the tokens makes that viable now anyway.

[SEMPER]

i find it funny that people think dex based toons are gimped i mean if u start with a 14 or 16 str on them your only about 5 to 6 points less then a str based toon for the most part and have awesome ac and above average dps if not better and ive seen them be the main tank in tod & vod and hold the agro from what most consider uber dps builds like a 20 barbarian etc.... etc.... not do anything besides beat the boss down like everyone else. IMHO people that think u have to be a str based melee to be effective in quests let alone epic just are crazy and just dont know what there talking about.

FLAME ON TROLLS

[gfunk]

i find it funny that people think dex based toons are gimped i mean if u start with a 14 or 16 str on them your only about 5 to 6 points less then a str based toon for the most part and have awesome ac and above average dps if not better and ive seen them be the main tank in tod & vod and hold the agro from what most consider uber dps builds like a 20 barbarian etc.... etc.... not do anything besides beat the boss down like everyone else. IMHO people that think u have to be a str based melee to be effective in quests let alone epic just are crazy and just dont know what there talking about.

FLAME ON TROLLS

My dex ranger pulls agro quite often from either TWF or THF 20 barbs, sometimes when its not a good thing, like in TOD. I'm assuming those barbs must be the gimpy ones... but still...

I think its the 8 str rangers with bad FE's that give rangers a bad rep. 14 to 16str is fine, 12 on a halfling does alot of damage with guile too, imo

[SEMPER]

I agree leafy its the 8 str rangers that give the dex based rangers a bad name but still for most people who only think str based builds are the best dps and the only way to go just dont know because they never have done a dex build or are just to ignorant and blind to think it they can't hang , oh well this discussion will just go nowhere in the long run just like previous threads

[manumase]

i just wish that weapon finesse also changed dmg to dex for some weapons, i mean with a dagger you are gonna do more dmg using your dexterity to place the dagger where you want rather than just randominly stabbing as hard as you can

[piggiecrdf2]

The gap of damage per hit between a strength based and a dex based ranger isn't really that huge. Consider 5 points from leveling and maby couple more starting stats, the dam per hit difference should be 3-4 points for a properly built dex ranger. However, a dex ranger will most likely end up with higher hit bonus. Epic is no longer hit on 2 for most builds in most situations (you don't get every possible buff on you everytime you try to hit an epic mob). So the extra hit bonus will make a dex ranger land your attacks more often or allow you to turn on PA. The total damage output shouldn't be that huge, or even dex rangers could outperform strength ones because of being able to land more hits.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

The gap of damage per hit between a strength based and a dex based ranger isn't really that huge. Consider 5 points from leveling and maby couple more starting stats, the dam per hit difference should be 3-4 points for a properly built dex ranger. However, a dex ranger will most likely end up with higher hit bonus. Epic is no longer hit on 2 for most builds in most situations (you don't get every possible buff on you everytime you try to hit an epic mob). So the extra hit bonus will make a dex ranger land your attacks more often or allow you to turn on PA. The total damage output shouldn't be that huge, or even dex rangers could outperform strength ones because of being able to land more hits.

In theory for a pure ranger sure, but I have a halfling with a monk splash, so I also needed dex, con, wis, and a little int. I even put a little into cha to partially offset the -4 penalty to intimidate. I couldn't reasonably start my str higher than 12 and achieve the other build goals I wanted. Besides, my problem isn't with the average damage per swing. I don't mind 3-4 damage less; I don't mind 10-12 less necessarily. For epic melee it's all about getting mobs into an auto-crit state, and there is no way a 12 base str halfling ranger is going to be able to stun anything anymore. Aside from raids, all I would be doing is leeching off the work of the rest of the group rather than contributing in any significant fashion. That is what my gripe is about.