Feedback: Guild Leveling

[Sarr]

I got 50 renown in the first quest (the one with the giant). The renown token was in the end chest.

Hmm. Interesting. I was even considering filing another bug report, but I'll try it more then.

[Deaeth]

LOVE the new system. But here's my issue.

Server was up so went into Butchers Path with my lvl 20 ftr on elite. So level 4 quest at lvl 20.

I randomly got 5 renown, yes 5, not 50, from killing mobs. I thought kewl. Found one heroic deeds in one of the chests. Total renown earned 55 from mobs at 5 a pop, and 50 from one chest for a total of 105 total renown at lvl 20 in a lvl 4 quest.

Went into butchers path with my lvl 2 ftr i made on lamannia. Got 10 total renown, only 2 mobs granted me renown, both at 5. Maybe I had a really lucky run on the lvl 20, and really unlucky on my lvl 2. But both levels earning the same renown??? Didn't get a chance to test a higher level quest.

Went to IQ to test Dream Conspiracy on normal, a lvl 18 quest. Soon as I summoned my henchi, DnD client crash. Loaded back in, once fully loaded (assuming henchie became 100% active same time) same thing, client crash. So now I sit waiting for the game to boot me out of the instance so I can load back in!

Oh and I looted bags to test, not 1 renown from bags. YAY!

[Deaeth]

Ok, got back into game. Killed the first 3 mobs and got a whopping 5 renown from killing one of them. Since I can't summon a henchi, I might just recall out of this quest now as I may not be able to finish now w/o heals. I'll try to get to a chest and see if I get any renown out of that. But only 5 renown in a lvl 18 quest? I can go to Butchers Path and get 5 renown!

[Tendare]

Took my 20 cleric into Reclaiming memories on normal, it's a level 19 quest.

First run solo, one renown for 15 points, none in end chest
Second run solo, one renown for 5 points, none in end chest
Third run with hubby, 2 renown each one 5 and one 15 = 40 total, none in end chest

Thank you for not making us pick up purple bags but the point reallocation makes no sense. 5-15 points for a level 19 quest? I can see it on level 1-5 quests but level 19 quests should drop no less than 500 if you expect us to collect millions of points to get to level 55 and maintain the levels
Just my 2cp

[Deathseeker]

Took my 20 cleric into Reclaiming memories on normal, it's a level 19 quest.

First run solo, one renown for 15 points, none in end chest
Second run solo, one renown for 5 points, none in end chest
Third run with hubby, 2 renown each one 5 and one 15 = 40 total, none in end chest

Thank you for not making us pick up purple bags but the point reallocation makes no sense. 5-15 points for a level 19 quest? I can see it on level 1-5 quests but level 19 quests should drop no less than 500 if you expect us to collect millions of points to get to level 55 and maintain the levels
Just my 2cp

Tendare, Im not sure I agree with the premise that the higher level quests should return more renown (thanks for posting the testing by the way).

For example, a quest like Mindsunder can be run and completed by a group of lvl 20's probably as fast as a quest like Butcher's Path can be run by a group of lvl 3's. For sake of example, let's say both can be run equally in terms of play time.

Should the lvl 3's get less renown than the lvl 20's for the same amount of playtime?

If one says "yes" to that, it leads to an issue...guild renown being slanted toward guilds with a majority running high level toons. Do we want to have a big bias against running lowbies built into the mechanic?

Definitely a group of lvl 20's running through Butcher's Path would be silly and shouldn't give any renown. The devs have confirmed that isn't the intent.

But I think we should be careful before assuming there should be a bias toward guilds running higher level toons vs lower level toons, especially considering the reincarnation mechanic.

I'd suggest (and it sounds from Mad Floyd's posts this was at least partially their intent) that longer quests should give higher rewards. For me, I'd rather see The Pit give a lot more renown than Mindsunder when run with level appropriate toons in each. Same with Coalesence Chamber vs Sunken Parish for example.

I'm sure the devs have easy access to the average time the population takes to complete quests, by level appropriate groups, over a huge sample size. I hope they are looking at that type of data and setting renown drop rates based on this.

[MadFloyd]

Thanks for much for the feedback.

You're seeing smaller renown from mobs because we increased the rate of drops (now that you don't have to manually pick them up) and changed the range from 5-100.

As Deathseeker just commented, we wanted to ensure that contributions from low level guild member were still desirable. There is a bias towards higher level adventures, but it's not night and day.

The length of dungeons does matter - especially for a chance of a renown offering in the quest reward. These start at 50% for a short dungeon and go up from there. So it looks like Tendare was pretty unlucky.

In theory. :-)

[Coldin]

Well, I've been spending some time doing the Tide Turns Sentinel quest.

The first run I did on normal and only got about 15 renown in total from killing monsters.

Second run I did on elite and got significantly more renown. It was all in 5 renown chunks, but they were coming quite often. I believe I got somewhere over 50 renown in the end. I don't know if the difficulty changed the rate at which they were dropping, or it was just because elite has many more monsters.

I did not receive any renown from the end chests, or from the end rewards however.

Edit:

Initial impressions are that I like these little amounts of renown dropping from several monsters opposed to running a quest and not getting any renown, or just one single bag with 50 renown. I still would like to see chests and end rewards dropping more often, but I realize that my testing hasn't been quite enough to say whether it's just bad luck, or low droprates.

[MadFloyd]

Well, I've been spending some time doing the Tide Turns Sentinel quest.

The first run I did on normal and only got about 15 renown in total from killing monsters.

Second run I did on elite and got significantly more renown. It was all in 5 renown chunks, but they were coming quite often. I believe I got somewhere over 50 renown in the end. I don't know if the difficulty changed the rate at which they were dropping, or it was just because elite has many more monsters.

I did not receive any renown from the end chests, or from the end rewards however.

Coldin, what level was your character?

[dragonruler]

Well, I've been spending some time doing the Tide Turns Sentinel quest.

The first run I did on normal and only got about 15 renown in total from killing monsters.

Second run I did on elite and got significantly more renown. It was all in 5 renown chunks, but they were coming quite often. I believe I got somewhere over 50 renown in the end. I don't know if the difficulty changed the rate at which they were dropping, or it was just because elite has many more monsters.

I did not receive any renown from the end chests, or from the end rewards however.

Edit: After reading Madfloyd's ninja post above mine it was probably because I was on my lvl 17 sorc.

Yea I ran two of the new quests today (1 of which was the final quest) and I never got any renown from the chests. I also don't remember ever getting renown from the final quest and I killed every little PITA in that quest. The other quest I got about 20 renown from it.

[GoldyGopher]

I'm sure this has been stated a dozen times, but I still disapprove or Renown dropping randomly in any form.

Renown should be linked to - named mobs - and quest completion (at quest turn in). And should ba awarded in a similiar fashion to XP (where level of the quest/mob, length, and difficulty are compared to the character (parties) level.

[dragonruler]

I'm sure this has been stated a dozen times, but I still disapprove or Renown dropping randomly in any form.

Renown should be linked to - named mobs - and quest completion (at quest turn in). And should ba awarded in a similiar fashion to XP (where level of the quest/mob, length, and difficulty are compared to the character (parties) level.

What about if you fail a quest for some reason? You should still get some renown for what you had completed. It's like in other tales where a knight fought valiantly for his kingdom but died for some reason. He is still seen as a hero and is sung about by the bards, etc. So I mean you should still get some benefit for the work you do.

[Coldin]

Coldin, what level was your character?

Level 20

I'll try something higher level next.

Edit:

Just did Bargain of Blood on elite with a level 20 monk. Picked up about 30 renown from the monsters. None from Chests or End Rewards. Still, I must have killed less than half of the monsters in there since I was zerging.

[Tharlak]

I'm sure this has been stated a dozen times, but I still disapprove or Renown dropping randomly in any form.

Renown should be linked to - named mobs - and quest completion (at quest turn in). And should ba awarded in a similiar fashion to XP (where level of the quest/mob, length, and difficulty are compared to the character (parties) level.

I agree with this. The only addition I would have is that I would like to see optionals get renown.

[Coldin]

Welll...tried to do Sunken Parish. Was going very well until the very end, then all those ghosts were spawning and Jonas died.

Picked up about 100 renown from the monsters. A few 15s, a few 5s, and one 50 from the various mobs in the quest. The one chest I got to did not have any renown.

Edit: This was as a level 20 monk running Dream Conspiracy on normal.

[Coldin]

Just did I Dream of Jeets on normal with a level 20 monk. I got one 50 renown, and a couple 5 renowns. No renown from the end chest (since it's a dream quest, maybe it can't give any renown?), and no renown from the end reward.

[Tendare]

Tendare, Im not sure I agree with the premise that the higher level quests should return more renown (thanks for posting the testing by the way).

For example, a quest like Mindsunder can be run and completed by a group of lvl 20's probably as fast as a quest like Butcher's Path can be run by a group of lvl 3's. For sake of example, let's say both can be run equally in terms of play time.

Should the lvl 3's get less renown than the lvl 20's for the same amount of playtime?

If one says "yes" to that, it leads to an issue...guild renown being slanted toward guilds with a majority running high level toons. Do we want to have a big bias against running lowbies built into the mechanic?

Definitely a group of lvl 20's running through Butcher's Path would be silly and shouldn't give any renown. The devs have confirmed that isn't the intent.

But I think we should be careful before assuming there should be a bias toward guilds running higher level toons vs lower level toons, especially considering the reincarnation mechanic.

I'd suggest (and it sounds from Mad Floyd's posts this was at least partially their intent) that longer quests should give higher rewards. For me, I'd rather see The Pit give a lot more renown than Mindsunder when run with level appropriate toons in each. Same with Coalesence Chamber vs Sunken Parish for example.

I'm sure the devs have easy access to the average time the population takes to complete quests, by level appropriate groups, over a huge sample size. I hope they are looking at that type of data and setting renown drop rates based on this.

You have a good point I didn't think about. But with the amount of points needed for each level of guild renown to go up as this chart below shows. Is it really practical that we are pulling 5 heroic deeds out of a level 19 quest when we need 445,550 to go from level 54-55?

Thats 89,110 / 5pt heroic deeds needed if your really unlucky. (As I guess I was)
At 100pt heroic deeds per person per quest it would be 4,455 individual runs, with 6 people it would take 742 runs.
I hate math but even 742 group runs seems alot to level a guild from 54-55 or maintain a ship at level 55.

Level 1 - 0
Level 2 - 400
Level 3 - 1350
Level 4 – 3200
Level 5 - 6250
Level 6 – 10800
Level 7 – 17,150
Level 8 - 25,600
Level 9 - 36,450
Level 10 – 50,000
Level 11 – 66,550
Level 12 – 86,400
Level 13 - 109, 850
Level 14 - 137,200
Level 15 – 168,750
Level 16 – 204,800
Level 17 – 245,650
Level 18 – 291,600
Level 19 – 342,950
Level 20 – 400,000
Level 21 – 463,050
Level 22 – 532,400
Level 23 – 608,350
Level 24 – 691,200
Level 25 – 781,250
Level 26 – 878,800
Level 27 – 984,150
Level 28 – 1,097,600
Level 29 – 1,219,450
Level 30 – 1,350,000
Level 31 – 1,489,550
Level 32 – 1,638,400
Level 33 – 1,796,850
Level 34 – 1,965,200
Level 35 – 2,143,750
Level 36 – 2,332,800
Level 37 – 2,532,650
Level 38 – 2,743,600
Level 39 – 2,965,950
Level 40 – 3,200,000
Level 41 – 3,446,050
Level 42 – 3,704,400
Level 43 – 3,975,350
Level 44 – 4,259,200
Level 45 – 4,556,250
Level 46 – 4,866,800
Level 47 – 5,191,150
Level 48 – 5,529,600
Level 49 – 5,882,450
Level 50 – 6,250,000
Level 51 – 6,632,550
Level 52 – 7,030,400
Level 53 – 7,443,850
Level 54 – 7,873,200
Level 55 – 8,318,750
Level 56 – 8,780,800
Level 57 – 9,259,650
Level 58 – 9,755,600
Level 59 – 10,268,950
Level 60 – 10,800,000
Level 61 – 11,349,050
Level 62 – 11,916,400
Level 63 – 12,502,350
Level 64 – 13,107,200
Level 65 – 13,731,250
Level 66 – 14,374,800
Level 67 – 15,038,150
Level 68 – 15,721,600
Level 69 – 16,425,450
Level 70 – 17,150,000
Level 71 – 17,895,550
Level 72 – 18,662,400
Level 73 – 19,450,850
Level 74 – 20,261,200
Level 75 – 21,093,750
Level 76 – 21,948,800
Level 77 – 22,826,650
Level 78 – 23,727,600
Level 79 – 24,651,950
Level 80 – 25,600,000
Level 81 – 26,572,050
Level 82 – 27,568,400
Level 83 – 28,589,350
Level 84 – 29,635,200
Level 85 – 30,706,250
Level 86 – 31,802,800
Level 87 – 32,925,150
Level 88 – 34,073,600
Level 89 – 35,248,450
Level 90 – 36,450,000
Level 91 – 37,678,550
Level 92 – 38,934,400
Level 93 – 40,217,850
Level 94 – 41,529,200
Level 95 – 42,868,750
Level 96 – 44,236,800
Level 97 – 45,633,650
Level 98 – 47,059,600
Level 99 – 48,514,950
Level 100 – 50,000,000
Thanks to Sleepingcap for the numbers from DDO-Daily

[Tendare]

. So it looks like Tendare was pretty unlucky.

In theory. :-)

It should not be random and up to luck. I think that's what alot of people are saying.

Also get rid of decay and let each guild keep what they earn, smaller guilds will take longer to get a ship but once they do they should be able to keep it and every other guild too. Decay although I understand why you did it, is not improving the game at all.

[GoldyGopher]

What about if you fail a quest for some reason? You should still get some renown for what you had completed. It's like in other tales where a knight fought valiantly for his kingdom but died for some reason. He is still seen as a hero and is sung about by the bards, etc. So I mean you should still get some benefit for the work you do.

As another poster already mentioned, I forgot to include optionals.

As for failed quests, sorry renown is for completing the quest and getting notority not failing. However if you do the optionals, named or two pop, than there is your little bit of renown.

[Coldin]

It should not be random and up to luck. I think that's what alot of people are saying.

Also get rid of decay and let each guild keep what they earn, smaller guilds will take longer to get a ship but once they do they should be able to keep it and every other guild too. Decay although I understand why you did it, is not improving the game at all.

Once a guild gets an airship, they never lose it, even with decay.

Plus, we don't know the rate of decay yet. I'd rather not make any statements about it until we know how bad it will be.

[Coldin]

Just ran Acid Wit on normal with a level 20 Monk.

I picked up 85 renown from all the various trogs and acid elementals. But no renown from chests or the end reward.

Am I just getting unlucky with the chests and end rewards?