Feedback: Guild Leveling

[Donnie]

My biggest problem with the system is “looting” renown. It seems absolutely silly. If you guys really want renown to correspond with a challenge, it should be applied automatically upon the completion of a challenge! It makes absolutely no sense to have to loot it, and choosing it from an end reward sounds like an EXTREMELY poor way to implement it. You shouldn’t have to “choose” reputation in any way, it should just happen based on your actions. Now, maybe a little extra renown for declining a reward could be in order (so n so slayed the enemy and didn’t even want a reward), but implementing it into the DDO loot dynamic is kind of a joke imo.

[Daehawk]

Renown System
Currently we only know that you can gain renown for you guild from: Chests with the tokens, Collectible bags with the tokens, and End Rewards from quests that have the tokens.

Something I would like to suggest to make things more interesting to make it better for guild activities:

• Each objective inside of a quest gives 25 Renown to each person's guild in the quest.
• Each end boss fight in quests level 1-10 drop a bag for everyone giving 50 renown each.
• Each mini-bosses for objectives for quests level 11-17 drop a bag for everyone giving 50 renown each.
• Each end boss fight in quests level 11-17 drop a bag for everyone giving 150 renown each.
• Each mini-bosses for objectives for quests level 18-25 drop a bag for everyone giving 150 renown each.
• Each end boss fight in quests level 18-25 drop a bag for everyone giving 500 renown each.
• Each boss fight in raids level 25(Epic) drop a bag for everyone giving 1,000 renown each.
• Completing a quest level 1-10 gives 10 renown to your guild.
• Completing a quest level 11-17 gives 50 renown to your guild.
• Completing a quest level 18-25 gives 150 renown to your guild.
• Each rare spawn in explorer zones where Rare Monster CR 1-10 drop a bag for everyone giving 25 renown each.
• Each rare spawn in explorer zones where Rare Monster CR 11-17 drop a bag for everyone giving 50 renown each.
• Each rare spawn in explorer zones where Rare Monster CR 18-25 drop a bag for everyone giving 150 renown each.

The above are in addition to the collectible bags that drop in quests. So to those that don't want to search every single collectible bag they still have a decent way to earn Renown for their guilds.

Note that not all quests have end boss fights. Some are just objectives you must do.

[Cupcake]

Well, now this strikes me as a very bad thing.

Just ran a 5 man Reaver with the DDO Daily guild. All 4 chests (including the warded chest) did not have any heroic deeds (renown).

So, we could spend 30 minutes doing a Raid and get no renown. Or we could spend 15 minutes doing a harbor quest and a few hundred.

This is really not seeming balanced. I definitely do NOT want to be spending hours farming low level quests. I'm sincerely hoping this is a bug, and not working as intended.

I am new to reading about this guild stuff, but I definitely don't want it where you only get renown by raids only.

[Coldin]

I am new to reading about this guild stuff, but I definitely don't want it where you only get renown by raids only.

Not what I meant. Renown should come from any quest at any level. But I think it's rather crazy to run a raid and to not get any renown at all. Especially when it takes so much to make the higher levels.

[MadFloyd]

My biggest problem with the system is “looting” renown. It seems absolutely silly. If you guys really want renown to correspond with a challenge, it should be applied automatically upon the completion of a challenge! It makes absolutely no sense to have to loot it, and choosing it from an end reward sounds like an EXTREMELY poor way to implement it. You shouldn’t have to “choose” reputation in any way, it should just happen based on your actions. Now, maybe a little extra renown for declining a reward could be in order (so n so slayed the enemy and didn’t even want a reward), but implementing it into the DDO loot dynamic is kind of a joke imo.

Not trying to change your mind or suggest that your opinion isn't as valid as ours or anyone else's, but all things being subjective, let me explain our thoughts behind this:

You see a little old lady crossing the street. She's having some issues, there are no traffic lights and the road can be dangerous. So you help her. She offers you a $5 reward. You decide NOT to accept the reward (e.g. you did this out of the goodness of your heart).

By foregoing the reward, you just did a good deed and, witnessed by others, your reputation grows.

[Sarr]

Not trying to change your mind or suggest that your opinion isn't as valid as ours or anyone else's, but all things being subjective, let me explain our thoughts behind this:

You see a little old lady crossing the street. She's having some issues, there are no traffic lights and the road can be dangerous. So you help her. She offers you a $5 reward. You decide NOT to accept the reward (e.g. you did this out of the goodness of your heart).

By foregoing the reward, you just did a good deed and, witnessed by others, your reputation grows.

Great explanation, you're really smart folks Turbine .

[Borror0]

Not trying to change your mind or suggest that your opinion isn't as valid as ours or anyone else's, but all things being subjective, let me explain our thoughts behind this:

Personally, I take issue with looting guild reputation in two ways:

1. I hate looting stuff from mobs with a passion.

2. It feels artificial. Reputation is not material, so why should an item found in a chest or dropped by a mob increase my guild's reputation? From a purely flavor point of view, the best way to implement guild reputation it should be through completing quests ("You rescued the helpless princess from the dragon! What a courageous adventurer!") and/or from killing named mobs ("You killed the dragon! What a powerful guild you are!"). On the other hand, guild reputation dropping from chests and mobs feels silly.

[DANTEIL]

I've been thinking about it, and here is my suggestion, for what it's worth:

I agree that it is crazy-weird for renown to be only reliably available from dead mob bags. That's just creepy. I think the best system would be to have some probability of renown mostly from end-rewards, with a greater probability of renown (and bigger renown) available as end rewards when you complete a quest on harder difficulties, and also more for finishing higher level quests.

I could even imagine a system whereby the chance of getting renown as an end reward is 100%, but you would have to choose between either individual benefit (taking the loot) or guild benefit (taking the renown).

The amount of renown could be tied directly to the challenge level of the quest, so approximately:
Level 1-4 quests: 5/10/15/20 renown on casual/norm/hard/elite (with solo only quests treated as 'normal')
Level 5-8 quests: 15/20/25/30 renown
Level 9-12 quests: 25/35/45/55 renown
Level 13-16 quests: 45/60/75/90 renown
Level 17-20 quests: 75/95/115/135 renown [these are just rough numbers, obviously]

Raids/Epics would be scaled up proportionally. Plus, just like XP, there should be renown ransack penalties for repeatedly finishing quests.

In addition, there could be a possibility (not 100%) of renown from chests associated with named monsters and bosses, especially optionals. Same with named monsters/rares in explorer areas.

EDIT: ninja'ed by dev while I was writing this.

[Kambuk]

Given the system I would like to see a larger than normal 100% drop renown reward on the list for quest chains, like how the voice always drops from completing deleras.

Completing a quest chain should be worth a lot more renown than a normal quest.

Kambuk

[Donnie]

Not trying to change your mind or suggest that your opinion isn't as valid as ours or anyone else's, but all things being subjective, let me explain our thoughts behind this:

You see a little old lady crossing the street. She's having some issues, there are no traffic lights and the road can be dangerous. So you help her. She offers you a $5 reward. You decide NOT to accept the reward (e.g. you did this out of the goodness of your heart).

By foregoing the reward, you just did a good deed and, witnessed by others, your reputation grows.

Fair enough, and refusing a reward is valid enough for gaining renown (was a little hasty on my criticism of the end reward aspect at work, kind of contradicted myself and suggested that what you mentioned is a valid approach), but how does this methodology play into looting renown off of a carcass on an adventure where no commonfolk are linguring? Or in any other sort of other looting scenario?

Having to pick up something off the ground to gain a reputation doesn't really make sense, you dont choose to get a reputation...other than by your actions themselves. You also cant 'miss' the impression you make on others by failing to 'pick it up'

Beyond all that, if challenge=renown, it seems to me like they should be directly corrected...and not just as an option. It should automatically apply as the challenge is completed, shouldn't it?

[MadFloyd]

Fair enough, and refusing a reward is valid enough for gaining renown (was a little hasty on my criticism of the end reward aspect at work, kind of contradicted myself and suggested that what you mentioned is a valid approach), but how does this methodology play into looting renown off of a carcass on an adventure where no commonfolk are linguring? Or in any other sort of other looting scenario?

Having to pick up something off the ground to gain a reputation doesn't really make sense, you dont choose to get a reputation...other than by your actions themselves. You also cant 'miss' the impression you make on others by failing to 'pick it up'

It's simply an abstract way of recognizing your adventuring prowness. We thought it might make the experience a little more enjoyable if, when picking up collectibles, you had a chance of something else.

That being said, while *I* might mindlessly pick up every bag (only because using the hotkey makes it painless), it's pretty clear that most of you don't (and resent having to). So we're looking into changing this so that there would be no pickup required - i.e. it would be automatic and not a choice.

[TFPAQ]

If they had said you were picking up ears instead for your renown, no one would be complaining about the system or mechanic ...

lol

[Montrose]

It's simply an abstract way of recognizing your adventuring prowness. We thought it might make the experience a little more enjoyable if, when picking up collectibles, you had a chance of something else.

That being said, while *I* might mindlessly pick up every bag (only because using the hotkey makes it painless), it's pretty clear that most of you don't (and resent having to). So we're looking into changing this so that there would be no pickup required - i.e. it would be automatic and not a choice.

Yayyy! I really *really* hate having to pick up those bags. The only ones I ever bother clicking on are the ones in the subter.

(P.S. The hotkey doesn't make it painless for me. It's still a multi-step process: 1) See bag 2) Run over to bag 3) Press backspace and hope it selects the bag instead of some other random nearby object 4) Press "u" )

[Montrose]

If they had said you were picking up ears instead for your renown, no one would be complaining about the system or mechanic ...

lol

Not true. It's not the nomenclature, it's the annoyance of having to pick up bags. Especially since all bags look alike and so there is no way to determine whether or not it's worth the time to wait around after every dead thing to see if there is a bag to collect.

[Donnie]

It's simply an abstract way of recognizing your adventuring prowness. We thought it might make the experience a little more enjoyable if, when picking up collectibles, you had a chance of something else.

That being said, while *I* might mindlessly pick up every bag (only because using the hotkey makes it painless), it's pretty clear that most of you don't (and resent having to). So we're looking into changing this so that there would be no pickup required - i.e. it would be automatic and not a choice.

To be honest, I also pick up most every collectible, in hopes that it gets included into crafting in the future

However, most people I know dont do this, and to be honest I would kind of feel silly having to encourage others to do so knowing they dont find it fun.

Either way, thanks for the responses and for considering a change in this mechanic

[DANTEIL]

Not true. It's not the nomenclature, it's the annoyance of having to pick up bags. Especially since all bags look alike and so there is no way to determine whether or not it's worth the time to wait around after every dead thing to see if there is a bag to collect.

Hrm, that makes me wonder if there's a way to make the 'renown' bags a different color from the normal purple collectible bags? Then once it dropped, you would know right away to pick it up.

[Donnie]

You know though, the whole thing makes me think, why not give more use to the collectors by having collectable turn ins count towards renown as well. Not as a primary source, but as an additional way of gaining it. It actually makes sense and could interject some more life into a system that many see as meaningless without making it forced.

Personally, I haven't turned in a collectible in years. I just pick em up looking for crafting ingredients, and hoard the rest in hope that some day they are worth something. However I wouldn't mind turning in a few hundred loadstones if they actually meant more than a level 3 scroll (which are completely worthless to anyone but a brand spanking new player). If that collector was going to spread my guilds name around town, it may be worth it once and awhile when the guild needs a boost.

[Coldin]

I'd love to check out the new drop rates of renown...but unfortunately, Lamannia is still down.

[dragonofsteel]

Auto collect would been nice... freaking click click click... Though problem with the bag system is it leaves more up to chance then it would be with quest completions and objective completions. I want the guild at the top to be the ones doing the dragon epic, dq epic, epic quest, tod, abbot, not someone that become good at collecting bags off epic von 1 mobs. Not saying other guilds do not have the chance to gain rank, but the ones that should be hitting the ranks frist are the ones completing hard quest not farming renown. That is way do not like the bag collecting.

[maddmatt70]

Are there any negatives in the system toward being a large sized guild? Perhaps I missed it, but I do not see any negatives. My guild is a very tight small to medium sized guild this system would seem to hurt us. Any chance that you would be weight the degrading of renown for guild size i.e. an extremely active guild is more likley to prevent degradation then a guild where many of its members are less active.