The death of melee

[Slorgs]

if you only find fun and satisfaction thru being able to play an overpowered character, clearly D&D isn't the right game for you?

I don't care about how long it takes to kill a mob, it could take 3x as long in update 5 for all I care, it's how it feels when you're doing it.

[Jay203]

I don't care about how long it takes to kill a mob, it could take 3x as long in update 5 for all I care, it's how it feels when you're doing it.

care to explain?

[Slorgs]

Is your average player going to even notice the difference? Is it only people who play with spreadsheets open noticing a change?

Yes combat feels slower, and it doesn't feel any different between classes. That is the point. It's the notice-ability that's the problem. The nerfs are just icing on the cake.

All of the discussion has been around dps, numbers, past nerfs, future nerfs, sticking through the good times and the bad times. The one thing that people need to discuss is how the game PLAYS post changes, and if that is a positive or a negative experience.

Simply put. Imagine they left everything it was before the update, but they lowered monster hp to correspond with your character swinging 6 times per minute for the same average dps and time to kill or finish a quest. Maybe quests take 50% less time to complete.

Forget DPS, nerfs, balancing, whatever. I really don't know why people are even talking about it in this thread. See how it plays.

Melee combat has gone from .50 cal chaingun to moisan-nagant. That's what people should be talking about. For lag that experienced in only a few quests and will not kill a good group.

[clkpacker]

I don't care about how long it takes to kill a mob, it could take 3x as long in update 5 for all I care, it's how it feels when you're doing it.

How should the devs improve the feel? Legitimate question.

You say you don't care how long it takes to kill mobs, so I'll assume you also don't care how difficult they are to kill. So there's that gripe with melee changes gone. Are you comparing yourself to other players, and not liking that you're slower to kill things than they are? Is your monk slower, and your controls thus feel off? Or are you unable to pin down the source of your dislike?

The "feel" of a game is very hard to quantify and thus very hard for devs to respond to. And keep in mind--it's entirely possible the perceived change of feel is all coming from you: if you come into the situation with a bad feeling, that bad feeling will seep over into your perception of gameplay.

EDIT: you posted while I was typing, now I see what you were talking about. Apologies, your initial post made it sound as if there was no noticeable difference in speed; thanks for clarifying.

[Slorgs]

Is your monk slower, and your controls thus feel off?

Monk speed and tempest speed and 1hf and twf speed are all the same (or that's how they feel). I would think that some people like the idea of slowly swinging a massive axe for massive damage, some like fighting fast with two, or a dizzying flurry of unarmed strikes.

Now from character to character it seems you should should just have one weapon called generic that maybe looks like a spork or something and does x damage over time until you die of boredom or win the game.

The "feel" is about diversity between classes, each character had a unique feel and style associated with them pre patch.

Really I courage people to try it out. Play all your melee toons on Lamannia if you can and see if something hasn't been lost.

[Kriogen]

How should the devs improve the feel? Legitimate question.
.

I have a need ... a need for speed.


DDO combat (pre U5) feels "better" then in other games. A bit more fasters, more dynamic. More fun. Somehow it doesn't feel like some boring auto-attack like in WoW, GW. Hard to explain, a bit like if you have or don't have Quick Draw and use boost ... it feels more "alive".

[Jay203]

I have a need ... a need for speed.


DDO combat (pre U5) feels "better" then in other games. A bit more fasters, more dynamic. More fun. Somehow it doesn't feel like some boring auto-attack like in WoW, GW. Hard to explain, a bit like if you have or don't have Quick Draw and use boost ... it feels more "alive".

there's a thick line between attacking fast and attacking TOO fast
when your attack goes through 2~3 times faster than your avatar's swing, that's a bit way over the top don't you think?

[Jay203]

Really I courage people to try it out. Play all your melee toons on Lamannia if you can and see if something hasn't been lost.

all?
or just between twf and thf?

[Slorgs]

all?
or just between twf and thf?

I encourage people to try it for themselves.

[Jay203]

I encourage people to try it for themselves.

played my twf fist monk/rogue and he's still as deadly as ever
no speed difference detected as far as i'm concerned, then again, i guess i'm used to not being hasted 24/7 so i'm more used to the slower speed?
still yet to try my thf ones tho

[Slorgs]

played my twf fist monk/rogue and he's still as deadly as ever
no speed difference detected as far as i'm concerned, then again, i guess i'm used to not being hasted 24/7 so i'm more used to the slower speed?
still yet to try my thf ones tho

It's quite possible you don't use GM Wind Stance either.

[Philibusta]

My question on the whole issue is, why are the Devs even worried about this issue right now, whether it turns out to be a fix or a nerf or whatever?

DDO has experienced a massive influx of new players since going free. This means there are probably FAR more low- and mid-level characters out there than there are high-levels, the ones that are capable of running these high-level raids and such that seem to be the source of all this "lag" contention.

So with that said, why aren't the Devs focused on things that affect alot more players, like, oh, i dont know, the fact that a Kobold Shaman can still jump up onto....NOTHING.....as he chucks a lightning bolt at you? Seems to me it would be logical they'd try to fix the things that affect so many more players before they work on the stuff that only affects the elite few.

And another thing....why is no one exploring the question of why a ranger makes a better TWF than a Fighter?

Think about it. During his training days, before his mentor lets him venture alone out into the wilds, the aspiring Ranger has to learn many things. Not only how to use his weapons, but also all that Woodsy the Owl stuff Rangers know. The animal empathy, tracking (i know, not used in DDO)....all those other Ranger things that I've since forgotten since I haven't played a Ranger in ages. But my point is, Rangers have to focus on learning many things.

So....while the Ranger's out learning how to kiss chipmunks and hug trees or whatever else it is that Rangers learn, the Fighter is focused on one thing and one thing only: Weapons and fighting. His whole career, thats what he's about. Weapons, and fighting.

Now I ask all of you....thinking LOGICALLY....who SHOULD be the better TWF?